High Schoolers Forced To Lay In Dark Room, Wrists Bound As 'Slavery Project'...

a reply to: Grimpachi

...and a two to three page report with their thoughts on it.

This might be good... I suggest gang rape as a prison project to also deter crime.

a reply to: Xtrozero

As long as there is a permission slip.

I had to do some sh*t like this when I was in elementary school in the early 00's. We had to all lay down like they did on the ships. Of course we weren't tied up. If we were, I may have staged a "mutiny."

The ridiculous thing about all this is that slavery officially ended in 1865, so if we Americans are in desperate need of more guilt, why not choose something more recent?

The Wounded Knee Massacre was in 1890. How about staging that? Have half the kids running for their lives while the other half shoot them down with paintball guns.

Or maybe the firebombing of Dresden? Have the kids throw a party and simulate fire bombs raining down from the sky. Tell the kids, "No, you can't move! You're stuck in the melted asphalt, remember! Just keep screaming!"

Plenty of more recent atrocities to trigger latent trauma memories embedded in our DNA. This stuff has been going on forever, remember, and to all races on Earth.

So why the constant undivided focus on one such atrocity, even as it moves further and further into the annals of history? Maybe there is a MODERN social engineering plan at play? Gee... I wonder

a reply to: Aazadan what ? Are you freaking kidding! This is institutional abuse . I thought all the leftist Progressived were against child abuse you know like working the factories .....

originally posted by: Aazadan

Helpless? Many times.

I can see some of those times right here in this thread, so I believe you.

originally posted by: intrepid
No one knows everything but experience gives more than a modicum of knowledge. Your argument fails.

Does it though? Not everyone takes the same lesson away from an experience. Some of my ideas are out there, others are way out there, but they make sense to me (see the quote in my signature... it's a reminder for me on every post I make). Those ideas come from my experiences and having thought about them.

The fact that others have had the same experiences as me and come to different conclusions means that at least one of us isn't taking the proper lesson away from the experience.

Let me give an example: I live in a very high crime area in the US. On my first day in this town, I witnessed someone get robbed in their car at a red light. Two weeks ago I witnessed a van pull up to a group of cars at a light, and 3 armed thugs jumped out, robbed the 3 cars behind me at the light, and then sped off. I have had my apartment broken into and everything stolen from it twice in about 3 years. I have also had a situation where I was sleeping and had to listen to someone outside trying to break down my door to get in.

I've shared all these stories here before, so that's nothing new. Many people have responded to me though that that's why you can't trust the police and why you need to be armed. I don't believe myself capable of using a gun responsibly though. The way I see it, the moment you shoot someone, their life is in your hands... it's your responsibility to ensure they make it to the hospital, and ultimately trial. Since I don't want to care for someone, that moments ago I had the intention of killing (nor do I want to get the medical training to properly care for them) my conclusion is that I'm not fit for gun ownership.

Which of us is right? My experience tells me that it's wrong to get a gun, yet many others who have defended themselves say it would be the right thing to do. Which should be the stronger drive? Self preservation or acting justly? I would say that acting without killing intent is stronger, and that in some cases self sacrifice is necessary to uphold societies ideals. There's only one right answer here, and both paths are mutually exclusive.

So what does that mean for the idea that experience confers knowledge? I and many others have been the victim of crimes, yet we took different lessons away from it.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Here is an idea, teach the kids to read and assign such a book to them. That would actually require teaching from teachers.

Different students learn differently. Why are you suggesting they use only one teaching technique? How do you know they didn't read, and then go through this exercise for classroom activity beyond the readings?

originally posted by: Xtrozero
This might be good... I suggest gang rape as a prison project to also deter crime.

In 11th grade one of my classes (Sociology I think it was) watched American History X, and we spent two full days discussing just the prison rape scene.

a reply to: Aazadan

Oh I believe you take things differently. You're arguing with EVERYONE here. What I find hard to believe is that everyone is wrong and you are right. You might want to think about that. I'm done. I'll listen to MY siggy.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Aazadan

Helpless? Many times.

I can see some of those times right here in this thread, so I believe you.

In this thread? No. You don't know helpless though until you have no income and are homeless in a town where it was declared illegal to be homeless. That's what I had to do for my first two years of school. I couldn't afford tuition plus rent on just a disability check, so I chose tuition. Lived out of my backpack, spent the nights hiding and dodging the police so I wouldn't end up in jail (which would instantly put an end to any dreams I ever had of getting a good job with an arrest record), and having no security. I got to know the midnight shift at Tim Hortons pretty well, since I would often go in and buy a $1 drink and nurse it all night long using their lobby.

originally posted by: TonyS
A reply to: NerdGoddess

Frankly I do not understand why this is being done in US schools. Slavery has been over for how many years? Should German schools march kids to Auschwitz and make them stand bound and naked in the showers while tear gas is being pumped in to teach them the evils done by the German people during the Nazi regime?

And statistics provided above indicate that evil white kids only account for 4% of this schools student body! It is 72% Asian. I dont recall any Asians being involved in the US slave trade.

Honestly, is there no way forward?

Just so you know---there were Chinese slaves in the US. They were bought to work in mining and on the railroads. But their descendants don't get much air time when the issue of slavery is taught because we don't make a big deal of it.

There were also plenty of Native slaves---and Native slaveholders...but again...not much is said about that these days.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Aazadan

Oh I believe you take things differently. You're arguing with EVERYONE here. What I find hard to believe is that everyone is wrong and you are right. You might want to think about that. I'm done. I'll listen to MY siggy.

Is the majority always right? The majority thought the world was flat. Consensus alone doesn't mean anything. No one has provided any data or arguments why this exercise is wrong yet.

What I have seen, is many posters (who in other threads talk about schools being boring and not creating interesting exercises) saying that a school which actually does something beyond a reading assignment is wrong. It's one of the top ranked schools, and the exercise has been going on for 10 years. I really don't see the problem here, it's precisely what everyone said they wish their schools would do. Yet when they deliver, posters in this thread walk it all back to defend the practices that have been shown to be failing.

originally posted by: cenpuppie
It's been going on for 10 years, so why is it a problem now? What is so bad about this? Those slaves created the wealth of the South.

Oh, that's right, you only make posts to inflame the boards, carry on.

You do know that the wealth of the North was also built by slaves?

Why is it that people believe slavery only existed in the south?

Why is slavery laid only at the feet of white folks? Who rounded up the slaves and sold them to the white guys? Who began the practice of selling slaves to the whites? Who made a practice of taking slaves as war trophies and selling them to the highest bidder? Who still practices slavery to this day? I'll stop now before I become totally politically incorrect in talking about the practice of slavery in Africa and the middle east.

a reply to: Aazadan

Because I and I alone am "qualified" to make choices for myself...Have I ever made bad choices yep, who hasn't? But I have learned from them, taken the lesson and moved on. No one is more "qualified" to make choices for me in my life as only I know myself the best.

Same goes for the parents who make choices for their kiddos.

Your post just seemed tbh, very condescending and arrogant. I can't and never will get in line with that kind of mentality.

a reply to: sugarmonkey

If you're qualified, then why did you make a mistake? Authority means knowing better.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: sugarmonkey

If you're qualified, then why did you make a mistake? Authority means knowing better.

How about I put it this way. You know what qualifies me to make decisions for myself and children? Life. I have lived and learned and that is the best anyone can do.

Maybe that is what you think authority means but authority means jack-squat to me. What are you saying? Authoritative positions = knowing whats best and making choices for people? IMO that is wrong. Look at the state of the world mate, tell me authority knows better.

TBH tho, I think you are just trolling so this is it for me. I've read what you have been writing in this thread and you are either just trolling for attention or truly have your head so far up your own arse you can see out your mouth.

a reply to: diggindirt

Interesting. I had learned some years ago that the Railroads brought over thousands of Chinese laborers to build out the transcontinental railroads but I never saw that expressed as "Chinese Slave Labor". It seems odd that the Chinese government would have allowed press-ganging of its people into ships to be brought to the US. I'd have thought they were "paid" in the sense that the cost of their trip was expunged for so many months of working on the Railroads that paid their transit costs.

They did things different back then. I think some English and Irish came over as "indentured" servants who's labor paid off their immigration costs.

Look at all those posters expressing fake outrage. I'm sure none of you would have any problem if it was a school play.

originally posted by: sugarmonkey
How about I put it this way. You know what qualifies me to make decisions for myself and children? Life. I have lived and learned and that is the best anyone can do.

Maybe that is what you think authority means but authority means jack-squat to me. What are you saying? Authoritative positions = knowing whats best and making choices for people? IMO that is wrong. Look at the state of the world mate, tell me authority knows better.

TBH tho, I think you are just trolling so this is it for me. I've read what you have been writing in this thread and you are either just trolling for attention or truly have your head so far up your own arse you can see out your mouth.

No, I'm not trolling. I could have my head up my own ass.

It's an honest question, where does the right to self determination reside? Should we as a society strive for a result as long as a decision is made, the best result, or any good result?

The answer to that question determines if this is right or wrong. There's basically two possible questions we should be asking about this: Is it effective? Is it ethical?

I think that the vast majority of people in this thread are answering out of emotion rather than reason, and I'm trying to reason through it.

So the first question: Is it effective? It's a highly rated school, and it's had good results for a decade now. I would argue that the teaching style for the lesson is effective. In fact, no one has argued that it's not effective... most have instead argued that it's too effective because it's a potentially traumatic experience. So we can pretty easily settle on the fact that yes, the lesson is effective and put that to the side. The other question of efficacy though is if it matters? There's a large segment here arguing that slavery happened in the past, and that we don't need to focus on it. Therefore, it doesn't matter if it was effective or not because we have historical accounts of what happened and don't need to revisit it. I would argue that it does matter because everyone has basically said that we shouldn't ignore slavery, it's only a disagreement over teaching methods.

So we can likely conclude that the lesson is effective, and that it should be effective, which means it should be taught.

The other question is over ethics. Is it ethical to roleplay to this extent for a lesson? This one is harder to define. I say yes, the students were never put in pain or danger, and therefore no harm was caused. Others are arguing no, but have yet to define why not other than "I'm the parent, and I disagree" without actually rationalizing why they disagree. That's what I'm trying to get out of people. Why is it wrong? Just being wrong because you disagree with it isn't a good reason.

So then we circle back around to authority. If you have the authority to determine if something is or is not done, presumably that authority stems from something. Either through voting, the divine right of kings, superior ability, or something else. Most authority stems from the idea of superior ability. That's what people have been arguing so far, they have experience and knowledge of the world through experience, and so they should be able to determine how their kids live.

The problem with this is that adults become independent and don't always know better. Arguing that you know best for your kids, is also arguing that your parents who have more experience than you, should be able to dictate how you live... or that you've somehow surpassed them. Teachers have been taught in depth on a subject, and education techniques. Does it not make sense that they would understand how to teach kids better than a parent as a result? A parent only gets experience with one or a few kids... teachers work with thousands and have been taught specific techniques.

Or is it something else? If it's not superior ability that confers authority... what is it?