The trouble with Omnipotence

Let us imagine that there was a single entity/force/deity responsible for creation that at the time of recognising itself as being aware/conscious was omnipotent.

If we consider omnipotance in the form of ENERGY, let us ask these three questions:

1. Wouldn't any form of creation technically detract from its original level of power? (Wouldn't a portion of its energy/power be expended in order to create something that wasn't there initially?)

2. What if this original entity made another being that was equal in power to itself? (Would the remainder of time involve a power struggle between these two entities?)

3. Could either of these two beings ever be banished or defeated? (Would there be enough energy/power in existence for one to dominate or conquer the other?)

Can these questions be resolved rationally?

a reply to: Incandescent

If the ocean is waving does it make it more than the ocean?

if there is an omnipotent being in the universe then all other beings are part of it


it cannot be dominated just like your pinky finger cannot dominate you

a reply to: Incandescent

'Mornin... I'm thinking in terms a perpetual motion device (that many SAY can't or doesn't exist) in comparison to your questions.

Once started.. Or already IN motion... it maintains itself without loss or gain.

Best....

a reply to: Incandescent

1. Yes although would still be omnipotent seeming to it's creations,

2. I wouldn't and i doubt you would so why do you think an omnipotent being do so?

3. Irrelevant due to answer 2 (However this is classic them/us right/left good/evil, chaos/order question )

a reply to: njord

Are you saying that "nothing" cannot exist inside a universe? That every subsequent creation would be an extension of the Creator's energy?

For example, one man says to a colleague "I created 10 computers today" to which the colleague says "no you merely built upon existing materials and rearranged them to make 10 computers. There already was 10 computers worth of materials before you began and you simply rearranged them into computers."

Is that what you mean?

a reply to: Incandescent

if something is infinite it can never be less than infinite.

Would 'nothing' not have boundaries or influence by way of 'something' crowding it. Would 'nothing' simply be a placeholder ? Nothing is often times not nothing at all. Consider the properties of 'nothing'. Does it then exist as something ironically?

a reply to: Incandescent

1- If the ETERNAL Created fractals with parts of its infinite Energy. The fractals too are self sustainable infinite Energy...

2-If creation was created equally as strong as the CREATOR, then creation would require experience to become or gain strength. Why at the same time the CREATOR too is gaining strength from experiences with its creations.

3-I feel they would both eventually gain a logic through experience within EXISTENCE as creation and CREATOR and coexist accordingly.

a reply to: Incandescent

1. An omnipotent being would not be bound to the laws of physics. An omnipotent being would be able to spontaneously create reality just by imagining it. The information created or expended by conscious thought would always be equal to sum of every possibility in every direction. So nothing is lost and nothing is gained.

2. Yes, of course an omnipotent being can give other people the power of omnipotence. The thing is once you have the power of omnipotence you would melt into the existence of God since there is no difference in identity. You would see everything exactly the way God does, and therefore, you would have no consciousness. Experiencing totality is totality.

3. An omnipotent God is not really alive so it cannot be banished or killed. An omnipotent God is every possible experience all at once with no beginning and no end. You seem to be obsessed with identity consciousness. Do you think of you toe as a separate entity with its own consciousness or is it just apart of you? If you choose the latter, it is no different with God's consciousness. All of our minds are toes in God's mind and we just experience a delusion of separation.

Having the power of omnipotence is a strange thing. If you have omnipotent powers you are beyond the laws of logic and reason. If you are omnipotent, you can be three things all at once. You can be male, female, and androgynous all at the same time. Being omnipotent means people experience you exactly according to their bigotry and prejudice which are all forms of self-delusion. An omnipotent God can not only kill himself, but bring himself back from the dead even though it's logically inconsistent and strains the definition of "really dead". The point is projecting anthropomorphic vision of something beyond our comprehension results in conflicts in rationality.

a reply to: njord

My thoughts exactly. The universe is omnipotent because it is everywhere at all times and "knows" all by the fact that it is playing out continuously and in perfect harmony with its own laws. We are the universe experiencing itself, we are the "pinky" of God.

originally posted by: Incandescent

if you associate omnipotence with omnipresence then everything in existence must be part of the whole

the presence is there no matter how many times you re-arrange the material

kind of like our presence affects the cells in the body even as they are constantly re-arranged during the course of a lifetime

originally posted by: Incandescent
Let us imagine that there was a single entity/force/deity responsible for creation that at the time of recognising itself as being aware/conscious was omnipotent.

If we consider omnipotance in the form of ENERGY, let us ask these three questions:

1. Wouldn't any form of creation technically detract from its original level of power? (Wouldn't a portion of its energy/power be expended in order to create something that wasn't there initially?)

2. What if this original entity made another being that was equal in power to itself? (Would the remainder of time involve a power struggle between these two entities?)

3. Could either of these two beings ever be banished or defeated? (Would there be enough energy/power in existence for one to dominate or conquer the other?)

Can these questions be resolved rationally?

Interesting post.

1) Why does creation require a creator?
2) E=MC2
3) Entrophy - Neg-Entrophy
4) Why, again, with the anthropomorphised creator entity?

Maybe in the formless, many particles formed to become formed and therefore one full aware conscious was born. Then took control of the formless and made everything that exists today.

Maybe it's not the highest form to exist since the formless is infinite. But the first being to be created was what took control of it all.

I once had problems with being omnipotent but the doctor gave me some meds that cured that.

originally posted by: Incandescent
Let us imagine that there was a single entity/force/deity responsible for creation that at the time of recognising itself as being aware/conscious was omnipotent.

If we consider omnipotance in the form of ENERGY, let us ask these three questions:

1. Wouldn't any form of creation technically detract from its original level of power? (Wouldn't a portion of its energy/power be expended in order to create something that wasn't there initially?)

2. What if this original entity made another being that was equal in power to itself? (Would the remainder of time involve a power struggle between these two entities?)

3. Could either of these two beings ever be banished or defeated? (Would there be enough energy/power in existence for one to dominate or conquer the other?)

Can these questions be resolved rationally?

1, energy cannot be created or destroyed.
The being could simply modify one portion of itself into something new.
Then again time and space are infinite so it's a moot point.
Turtles All The Way Down...

2, wouldn't the creator of the other the "Mighty Mitosis" parent cell.. Have considered all possible outcomes, and chosen such path of action based on its own judgement?
Possibly conflict and war are games to a bored God.

3, Satan rolls a 6...a... 6....aannnnd....a....


If any amount of space matter energy was given enough time, it could eventually intelligently Arrange itself into one cohesive being.. Of the most efficient function possible...


All the individual parts each working towards the goal off reunion to its woke whole self...


But then it would be alone
Bored with nothing more to experience except old Taxi re runs
And probably horny..
And hungry

So in an act of absolute selflessness
It destroys itself
Suicide by masturbation
Causing the next big bang, to start the cycle again in the illusion of division...
In order to experience different set of experiences through whatever individuals arose from the chaos.

Rinse repeat
Ad infinitum...

originally posted by: Incandescent
If we consider omnipotance in the form of ENERGY, let us ask these three questions:

I see no reason whatsoever to "consider omnipotance (sic) in the form of ENERGY".
Perhaps I can relieve some of your confusion;
'Omni-' means One! ALL INCLUSIVE!
That is what is 'Omni-potence', or 'Omni-locality' or 'Omni-scient' or Omni-nasty or Omni- any and everything!
It means all (of whatever) that exists, are 'features' of the One!

'Creation' is scientifically and philosophically impossible!

originally posted by: FyreByrd
1) Why does creation require a creator?

Definitionally, like fighting requires fighters, eating requires eaters, creation (impossible as it is) requires creators.

originally posted by: Incandescent
Let us imagine that there was a single entity/force/deity responsible for creation that at the time of recognising itself as being aware/conscious was omnipotent.

If we consider omnipotance in the form of ENERGY, let us ask these three questions:

1. Wouldn't any form of creation technically detract from its original level of power? (Wouldn't a portion of its energy/power be expended in order to create something that wasn't there initially?)

2. What if this original entity made another being that was equal in power to itself? (Would the remainder of time involve a power struggle between these two entities?)

3. Could either of these two beings ever be banished or defeated? (Would there be enough energy/power in existence for one to dominate or conquer the other?)

Can these questions be resolved rationally?

Hi,
Here are my PoV's, which i write from my current learning of it (God).

0a. (responsible for creation that at the time of recognising itself as being aware/conscious was omnipotent.)
- Once, this being, which created the creation, separated the 'darkness' from itself (light).
Darkness, here on earth is understood as destruction, hate and loss. By Separating Darkness from Light - read: recognition of what can not be - CANNOT be, is the Omnipotence.
(e.g. What is living, can not die. What is eternal is not Time. Love can not Hate. etc etc etc.)

So if you stick to the Truth, and only to the Truth:

1.
-No.
Omnipotence, as God has it, can not. It's power is always as it was at the beginning of the time, is all the same throughout the time and will be the same when the time ends.
Omnipotence as God has it, can not render itself powerless. Or it would not be omnipotence, but nothingness (omniweakness).
And it is not disallowed to try it, as they (god) really have only few to no rules. Even Bible says it: You may try from every tree in the Garden. But remember, I am Alpha and Omega - What begins in me, ends in me.
Whenever there is a try to a foolish journey, the pain threshold gets so high, that at one point you will return.
It is a self maintaining device. That''s why he is Ruler without followers, king without Crown and Eternally loving and benevolent.

2.
-This original entity can create only like itself, under the rules of Creation, and same as itself giving its Creation the same power of Creation.
If you like to imagine it as energetic being, then it would create indistinguishable self with the same power, increasing itself in size,
which needs to create like the '1st being' to maintain their happiness (which is more understandable in sun-sunbeam correlation, in terms of light - e.g. light ball (source) to light beam, not star(planet) to light beam).
One of attributes, which you share with them (it) is thinking. And so, in Creation, there was a little idea to create an opposition.
This idea formed this earth and its Rules , but for this to be tried out, a part of creation has to fall asleep (Biblical: Adam was put into deep sleep) , to get awaken in the body. (biblical: eating of the Apple and Opening the eyes).

3.
-There is no need to. Only few, here on earth, are able to think in this ''destructive'' way. But the Source does not, and it can only laugh at every try to do it (well if it could see it lol).
Whatever thinks differently,does not exists for them, is hidden from their love and dies anyway (biblical: he cuts from me the branch that bears no fruit), and so it does not exists at all. But this energy is your true source.
You have misstakenly asked for death, yet what is eternal can not die. So there needed to be something that stands for, so that you can experience this. And so the body was formed, but what for you the death of the body is, is only a Form exchange for them.
What for you, in the body's perspective is impossible, it is perfectly possible for them. Even resurrection, which follows their Rules (which is not of the Body's learned mistakes) - (this contains resurrection of every dead-believed being that was 'alive-once').
They do not fight, there is nothing that can hurt them lol.
They do not need to be fought, but Loved. By loving them, they recognize you as their, and you remember who you are.

4. (Can these questions be resolved rationally?)

-No. Not really from their perspective.
From the PoV of man, maybe, if the being is creative and inventive.

These questions, especially the 3rd one may point to a belief, that what is eternal life, can be destroyed. This belief can be formed only in a settings, in which man has found himself on this earth, with almost total forgetfulness of his true source.
But: Remembrance of him (God) brings Resurrection.

Thanks for reading.

Science denotes the signals of the simulation by their charge.

The output signal is an exact mirror copy of the input. Mirror meaning reversed, and an illusion. This is how power is maintained, the 2nd source never had power, only an illusion. Polarity does end some day. When the illusion, the false image, is brought down. We are talking a permanent magnetic field vs a statically charged electro magnet maintaining the simulation.