Why Should I Feel Bad for Illegals?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Imagine that your parents moved to another country illegally when you were a kid from no fault/say of your own, now imagine you've been there for most of your adult life and have built up a decent life and work hard and pay taxes through your work permit and have laid a foundation for the rest of your life, etc.

Now imagine someone coming in and taking all your stuff you worked so hard for and then deporting you out of the country all because you had no say in where you were going as a kid.

That would suck wouldn't it? Imagine if the government came to your house today and started seizing your property and telling you you couldn't live there anymore. How would you feel?

Those "illegals" are still people you know, that's why you should feel sorry for them, because their entire lives are going to be upended and destroyed over no fault of their own.

But then again the term "illegal alien/immigrant" takes a little bit of humanity away from the person and makes it easier to not feel sorry for them, so I can see why you possibly wouldn't care about their entire lives being ruined.

I think the question is, Why shouldn't you?

Are you really that heartless and sucked in by capitalism that you have no humanity left? Can't you picture yourself in someone else's shoes? Do you really care that much about the law? If these people were given lawful status to live here would that suddenly change your view of them?

They deserve the same empathy as any other human being. Put it in perspective. Forget about politics. Now is the time of Humanity.

All that humanitarian cuddle hugs nonsense is what got Germany and much of Europe in the sht fight they currently find themselves in - and everywhere else they've just been allowed to run riot over us just to keep quiet the fools who would point and screech "racist" or "bigot".

The problem for the 'refugees' and immigrants and the fools now is that most people have stopped listening and do not believe what you do.

Our countries are not open for the taking, or they will end up the same third world sht holes that the refugees and immigrants are fleeing. If they has backbones or any sort of pride in themselves they would stay in their homes, fight for their our countries and build them stronger.

It's funny, until a couple of years ago I thought America was quite similar in their values to the UK and others around Europe, but actually, there is a real selfish streak to a considerable amount of the American population it seems. Very much a case of "I'm ok, they can look after themselves" attitude. This is demonstrated most in your health care system, which I won't go into as it will derail the thread, but why you think it's a good plan to have a health cares system which is based on profit is just beyond me. Anyway, you have a Reality Show personality as a President that is the laughing stock of the world, but he seems to represent a lot of people's views on this thread. Make of that what you will.

a reply to: bluesilver

How's the opposite going for the UK? Oh... that's right.

a reply to: bluesilver

Yeah, your healthcare is barely functioning!!!
www.telegraph.co.uk...
Not only that, but you have Neville Chamberlin running the opposition, and you can't even sort out your Brexit situation. And why is that....because of the massive influx of foreigners who are looking to cash in on your monstrous social programs.

Yea, sorry, bluesilver, people in glass houses and all that, ya know?

If your country had half the illegal immigration problem we do, you could compare, but you dont, so you cant.

Oh, and dont get into our leaders or politics. You still have a archaic royal family, and no room to talk. Your entire country could fit into one US state, so your problems are not like ours. Sorry to deflate the British ego, but I cant stand when Brits come in with this holier than thou bit, when you cant even compare the two countries.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Imagine that your parents moved to another country illegally when you were a kid from no fault/say of your own, now imagine you've been there for most of your adult life and have built up a decent life and work hard and pay taxes through your work permit and have laid a foundation for the rest of your life, etc.

Now imagine someone coming in and taking all your stuff you worked so hard for and then deporting you out of the country all because you had no say in where you were going as a kid.

That would suck wouldn't it? Imagine if the government came to your house today and started seizing your property and telling you you couldn't live there anymore. How would you feel?

Those "illegals" are still people you know, that's why you should feel sorry for them, because their entire lives are going to be upended and destroyed over no fault of their own.

But then again the term "illegal alien/immigrant" takes a little bit of humanity away from the person and makes it easier to not feel sorry for them, so I can see why you possibly wouldn't care about their entire lives being ruined.

They can apply for citizenship and become legal.

However, it's much more lucrative for them to remain illegal.

It's time we started taking care of our LEGAL citizens first. DACA was a huge overreach for Obama. Time to do it right and give it to congress to sort out.

If you are not of native American descent then you are the decendant of illegal immigrants.

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
a reply to: bluesilver

How's the opposite going for the UK? Oh... that's right.

It helps you make specific points and arguments.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: bluesilver

Yeah, your healthcare is barely functioning!!!
www.telegraph.co.uk...
Not only that, but you have Neville Chamberlin running the opposition, and you can't even sort out your Brexit situation. And why is that....because of the massive influx of foreigners who are looking to cash in on your monstrous social programs.

Ok, firstly that article is over 2 years old and written by not exactly an impartial political newspaper. Also, I can pretty much guarantee that if you asked 100 Brits if they would like your pay system or our system, at least 90% of them would say our system. Yes, this is hardly a scientific statement but equally I can honestly say that I have never once heard or read or spoken to anyone in this country saying that they'd prefer your system. It's not perfect, it could be better, but it could be a lot worse i.e.: be a payment model like yours. As for my own experience, unfortunately my father died a couple of years ago and received healthcare in the form of being in hospital for 8 months, a lot of medication and support and had to pay a princely sum of zero for it.

As for Brexit, well that is a situation that unfortunately was generally voted for because we had a lot of right wing politicians who said what a lot of our older generation wanted to hear, mainly because they couldn't be bothered to read or listen to watch a more balance reporting method. Half the time they would come out with reasons for wanting to leave which were based on myths, falsehood or just misunderstanding. The reality is that most people who voted for Brexit were closer to the pension age than the school age. The younger population wanting to stay but were not as engaged as they should have been, which is why when the General Election occurred there was a massive vote by the younger generation. If they had been out in force for Brexit there is no way on earth it would have been voted for.

Brexit is a mess, a total mess. But it is only happening because of largely ill informed people being told untruths about believing it. Anyone from the UK can remember Nigel Farage saying that £350m was being given to the EU every week. Not true at all, but it fed into what people felt about the EU. It got so ridiculous that even fruit was involved because there was a myth years ago that people believed that you couldn't sell fruit that wasn't curved. It was a myth, but again, you have the older generation believing rubbish like that.

Unfortunately, the increase in right wing politics is beneficial to some. Would Trump have won if he told the exact truth about immigration etc? Does he tell the truth now? No, of course not. He told people what they wanted to hear and it got him elected. Build a wall he says. And Mexico will pay for it. No they won't they say. And people think Trump will get them to do it. Would YOU pay for someone else's wall at a cost of how many billion? 10 billion is what some estimates are. And guess what, has there ever been a single wall that has ever kept people out? No. You build a 20ft wall, someone will get a 25ft ladder. I'm pretty sure if you used that money for other things you'd be a bit better off. I could go on for hours about Trump but I'll not derail the thread further. Suffice to say, the man dangerous.

originally posted by: KnoxMSP
Yea, sorry, bluesilver, people in glass houses and all that, ya know?

If your country had half the illegal immigration problem we do, you could compare, but you dont, so you cant.

Oh, and dont get into our leaders or politics. You still have a archaic royal family, and no room to talk. Your entire country could fit into one US state, so your problems are not like ours. Sorry to deflate the British ego, but I cant stand when Brits come in with this holier than thou bit, when you cant even compare the two countries.

We do have an archaic royal family. Most of them I'd get rid of. I think the Queen, William and Harry do some good and bring in money and interest so I'm less concerned with them I guess, but yes, the system is a bit mad. However, they are not our leaders because they have no power. It's symbolic power rather than actual power. Would I get rid of it? No, not entirely, but I would scale back the amount of 'royals' there are which get paid for by us.

Our problems are not like yours, that is true and yes, out country could fit into yours many time over, but if you look at your healthcare system, that is more a ethos (and ethical) issue. You have businesses set up to make profits from people being ill. Or rather them staying healthy. It is not in their interest to pay for people's care so they will try not to. Or charge so much for the premiums that people can't afford it. Doesn't that sound like a crazy system? If you could start again would you go for this model or a different one? Surely if you all paid a certain amount, a much lower amount than you do now, and took out the insurance business part so there was no-one making a huge profit on it, you'd all be better off?? You could even do as we do now and have the option of private healthcare, but you'd also have free healthcare generally. If France, UK, Canada, Germany etc etc etc can all do it, why can't you??

originally posted by: bluesilver

As for Brexit, well that is a situation that unfortunately was generally voted for because we had a lot of right wing politicians who said what a lot of our older generation wanted to hear, mainly because they couldn't be bothered to read or listen to watch a more balance reporting method. Half the time they would come out with reasons for wanting to leave which were based on myths, falsehood or just misunderstanding

Hmmn... You obviously missed my previous post, which detailed the air head

students conversing on social media about voting for Jeremy Corbyn because

he was going to get rid of student loans. Typical of

a generation who waits for grants to be paid into their banks, then use it to go

on holiday and are impoverished till the next installment of grant hits their bank

accounts!!! Magic money just appears from nowhere mentality!!


You're wrong about the older generation not reading .... they actually take the

time to get their noses out of their phones to READ and inform themselves, along

with actually living through various governments so they have the

additional experience of knowing which flavor of government

they are better off with.

The reality is that most people who voted for Brexit were closer to the pension age than the school age. The younger population wanting to stay but were not as engaged as they should have been, which is why when the General Election occurred there was a massive vote by the younger generation. If they had been out in force for Brexit there is no way on earth it would have been voted for.

Truth is most of them couldn't be bothered. I know a fair few.

Brexit is a mess, a total mess. But it is only happening because of largely ill informed people being told untruths about believing it.

Personal opinions are not FACTS.

Anyone from the UK can remember Nigel Farage saying that £350m was being given to the EU every week. Not true at all,

It IS true that the UK pays MEGA sums into the EU coffers.

We were the second largest contributer........unless you have solid proof

otherwise??

but it fed into what people felt about the EU. It got so ridiculous that even fruit was involved because there was a myth years ago that people believed that you couldn't sell fruit that wasn't curved. It was a myth, but again, you have the older generation believing rubbish like that.

Looks like you were not around at that time?? So perhaps another supposition

on your part?

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: bluesilver

As for Brexit, well that is a situation that unfortunately was generally voted for because we had a lot of right wing politicians who said what a lot of our older generation wanted to hear, mainly because they couldn't be bothered to read or listen to watch a more balance reporting method. Half the time they would come out with reasons for wanting to leave which were based on myths, falsehood or just misunderstanding

Hmmn... You obviously missed my previous post, which detailed the air head

students conversing on social media about voting for Jeremy Corbyn because

he was going to get rid of student loans.

Typical of

a generation who waits for grants to be paid into their banks, then use it to go

on holiday and are impoverished till the next installment of grant hits their bank

accounts!!! Magic money just appears from nowhere mentality!!


You're wrong about the older generation not reading .... they actually take the

time to get their noses out of their phones to READ and inform themselves, along

with actually living through various governments so they have the

additional experience of knowing which flavor of government

they are better off with.

The reality is that most people who voted for Brexit were closer to the pension age than the school age. The younger population wanting to stay but were not as engaged as they should have been, which is why when the General Election occurred there was a massive vote by the younger generation. If they had been out in force for Brexit there is no way on earth it would have been voted for.

Truth is most of them couldn't be bothered. I know a fair few.

Brexit is a mess, a total mess. But it is only happening because of largely ill informed people being told untruths about believing it.

Personal opinions are not FACTS.

Anyone from the UK can remember Nigel Farage saying that £350m was being given to the EU every week. Not true at all,

It IS true that the UK pays MEGA sums into the EU coffers.

We were the second largest contributer........unless you have solid proof

otherwise??

but it fed into what people felt about the EU. It got so ridiculous that even fruit was involved because there was a myth years ago that people believed that you couldn't sell fruit that wasn't curved. It was a myth, but again, you have the older generation believing rubbish like that.

Looks like you were not around at that time?? So perhaps another supposition

on your part?

I work very closely to students in my job, so I know all about their views, including the student loans. Contrary to popular belief, they don't go on holiday with their loans and most of them have part time jobs, especially the Undergrad ones.

The older generation read articles that feed into their own beliefs. Again, I know this from experience. Older people tend to buy the same newspaper and watch the same programmes and hold onto their personal beliefs more than younger people do.

As for living with Govts, you are talking about Brexit, not about different types of party winning. It was largely about "immigrants coming over here and taking...." and "we give the EU all our money for nothing" statements which feed into people's fears rather than actual cold, hard and balance facts. Take Boris Johnson, he played the game just as Donald Trump did. He came out with loads of things which you know he didn't believe, but he saw political advantage in doing so. When he won he ran away and let others pick up the pieces.

A lot of students and young people couldn't be bothered. Some of that was down to disenchantment with politics, same with a lot of people. Some down to naivety.

I know from talking to lots of people that the reason they wanted brexit was based more on myth and lies than considered facts.

We do pay lots to the EU, but only a fraction of what the Leave part said. Again, disinformation and lies were told to us so that the people who wanted reasons to justify their leave position, could. Do you think if there were another vote it would be the same or do you think it would be different? I would bet a lot of money the stay vote would win partly because of the mess/complexity of Brexit, but also because of the lies that were told.

I was around at the time. I heard plenty of people reading newspapers and believing it and then using it as another reason to leave the EU.

Ultimately, a lot of rubbish was said during the vote and the main people who will suffer are the younger generation, which is ironic as it was mainly the older generation who voted to leave. Yes the younger generation SHOULD have paid more attention but they didn't and from the dealings with hundreds of students I know, they bitterly regret it. Most thought there was no chance the leave vote would win. It's a heck of price they will pay.

originally posted by: bluesilver

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
a reply to: bluesilver

How's the opposite going for the UK? Oh... that's right.

It helps you make specific points and arguments.

Honey child there isn't a need to be specific when discussing the dire state the UK is in with regard to immigration. It's a sht fight any way you look at it.

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing

originally posted by: bluesilver

originally posted by: GusMcDangerthing
a reply to: bluesilver

How's the opposite going for the UK? Oh... that's right.

It helps you make specific points and arguments.

Honey child there isn't a need to be specific when discussing the dire state the UK is in with regard to immigration. It's a sht fight any way you look at it.

Honey child? So not only are you being patronising you are refusing to show any detail. Interesting way to lose an argument but it seems to work for you.

a reply to: bluesilver

All because an article is 2 years old, does not mean it isn't accurate. Every day there is some news on how the NHS is on the verge of collapse. And good luck finding an actual British person in the hospital, when by granddaughter was born, we needed Indian to English translators. (that is hyperbole, but you get my point). Here in Newmarket, being English is a minority. The massive influx of eastern europeans is in effect probably a much bigger problem than for the UK than the illegals in america, as Poles, Croations and other ilk have flooded the health system and social welfare programs. The NHS has even had to hire translators.

There are good and bad things about both systems...mainly that yours in unsustainable while trying to support foreigners. Much the same has been going on in California as over 80 hospitals have gone bankrupt, mainly due to illegals flooding the system.
www.diggersrealm.com...


If find your painting of half of the UK voting public as ignorant, to be very elitist. All because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are dumb or uninformed. You sound like a Londoner or Cambridge perhaps? Both full of elistist snobs living in their cozy little academic dreamworlds, unaware, and uncaring, of anyone outside their tiny bubbles.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: Metallicus
You asked why you should feel sorry for them.
I simply wanted to know if you were a Christian as the answer to your question if you are, is in the New Testament of Jesus.
If you are not, then it's no big.

treat others as you want to be treated. and love each other as yourself.and most importantly love God correct?

I can do all those while sending the illegals back home.

I want to be treated the same under the law and wish the same for others. That satisfies treatment.
I do not hate the illegals. They are fellow human beings and as such i love them. its their sins that we do not like. The parents are th eones who should answer for their sins not the children i agree. Still if they want to stay here they need to become citizens.

So you see its perfectly fine to want them to leave and come back properly or do it now while they are already here.

originally posted by: Vasteel
If you are not of native American descent then you are the decendant of illegal immigrants.

Wrong. there were no laws back then and this was not a country then was it? And also those born to people who moved here are now native as well since they were not from the area their parents came from.

Stop ignoring peices of history by saying they were breaking a law when there were none back then on immigration.

a reply to: seeker1963

This is what enrages me about the entire situation. As stated by many before me,if these people came here and learned the language,go through the legal process of becoming a citizen and embrace our culture then I would fight for them. And sadly if you think this way you are labeled as a hateful,bigoted,white-supremacist klan loving neo-nazi.

But MOST do not. There are so many organizations (along with many elected officials) that are pushing hard to completely open the floodgates while so many of the people that were born here and our vets live in poverty. For me personally,it raises the question as to what is really going on in D.C behind closed doors. A "cold war" between 2 hidden factions in our government is what I am leaning towards. So I had better upgrade my tinfoil hat.

Anyway.

We are all immigrants here. Nobody alive today was involved in the genocide of First Nation people. History is history. Like many other topics we must remember history but not dwell on it and move on. Hopefully to a better future for future generations.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with Hillary Clinton on this issue.

www.youtube.com...