Evacuate Seoul and Tokyo as part of War Games

a reply to: NuclearDamocles

a reply to: justwokeup

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

If Chairman Kim thinks that war is near he will strike first because otherwise he will lose all his weapons and still perish. The idea to, "take as many of them with you as you can" applies here.

I fear for the 25 million. Yes, there is danger that an evacuation could provoke a first strike. But what does that tell us? It tells us this is a very dangerous situation. Your view apparently is that it is even more dangerous than I am thinking, as I am thinking Un will only strike if attacked, and will not attack over a demonstration. I think this way because if he does attack it almost ensures his destruction, and so he would not attack after a demonstration of will. But you could be right that it is even that unstable.

For many years 25 million have been held hostage. The hostages were kept so that even more deadly weapons could be built. That in turn will enable more hostages to be taken, possibly including much of the world. That is a fate we should not want to allow. And then there is the danger of selling a nuclear bomb to terrorists. This is a very serious problem. Evacuation is one non-violent way to show resolve in the face of the threat, and it would reduce the military value of the hostage situation. Everything I read says there is not good way out - with the 25 million hostages being one of the big hurdles in solving the problem. Do you have a better way out of the situation?

originally posted by: StoutBroux

So when they take weeks to evacuate and run like ants from a magnifying glass, how long of a 'period' do they stay away from all that they know? 2 weeks? 6 months? When they return after the supposed threat is over, how long do they stay? DO they run back and fourth every other month?

The idea is ridiculous. If a threat is so great that it affects a whole civilization of 25,000,000+, they have two options. Evacuate the area permanently or eliminate the threat to the best of their ability.

Some things many humans think are worth dying for, is their country and the rights and lives of it's citizens.

The logistics is admittedly difficult. However, moving one person is not. Nor is moving a thousand. It could be done if the desire is high enough. Look at Florida today, where 5 million have been told to evacuate. It is far from impossible. As for how long to disperse, as a war game scenario it would only need a day. And how often? Each time war games are needed. The point is to show the will and ability to do so and show that it can be done. If hostilities break out you stay there until safe to return. I believe that any attempt to "eliminate the threat" without an evacuation will lead to far more casualties than with an evacuation.

a reply to: seagull

a reply to: enlightenedservant

a reply to: GusMcDangerthing

I have learned more about this issue from your thoughtful discussion on this thread. I must say that my outlook is considerably more dark, which is what led to my OP. I hope your more optimistic view is what will eventually play out, but I fear otherwise. It seems to me that your discussion is heavily influenced by life in a country with strong democratic traditions. If you look at the history of man, depravity and mass killing has been commonplace. During the Mongol conquests, 17% of all of humanity was killed. Tamerlane (aka Timur) would form pyramids of heads after conquest. If a soldier did not bring back two heads, the soldier's head would be added to the pile. World War II left many millions dead. Stalin and Mao many more. And such depravity is not limited to the past. More recently, The Khmer Rouge led a Cambodian genocide. The Hutu led a Rwandan genocide. Even more recent are the atrocities of ISIS. Those who seek absolute power often place little value on the lives of others.

Authoritarian systems rather regularly lead to death, and sometimes to death on an enormous scale. The great Sun Tzu laid out the principle in his classic "the art of war". To get female troops to stop giggling and instead follow orders, he related that a general decapitated one of the female officers and put her head on a pike. After that - orders were followed. North Korea has much death in service to keeping order. Even Un's uncle and brother-in-law have been killed. People can be killed just for not applauding vigorously enough. Multi-generational prisons exist where people are kept on the verge of starvation. Otto Warmbier was sent back to the US to die. We are mistaken if we think this is just insane, as Sun Tzu teaches us that this is one way to maintain control. So I think any musings about some sort of agreed reunification are extremely unlikely given the present regime; one that has been in power since the 50's. It is a very dangerous situation.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: NuclearDamocles
"stoned idiots" seldom, if ever, rise to the level of power these guys have. Or survive a murderous sociopath in the form of Un's father. Nor are they "weak mongrels". Treating them as such could lead to a surprise not at all pleasant to receive. As usually happens when one believes the hyperbole and doesn't bother to look at what actually may be happening.

It really is a good thing that the people handling this aren't of your mind, as I've no desire to see mushrooms sprouting.

Mate, get it together please. It's common knowledge that the North Korean regime employ drugs as a method to placate their top echelon. I mean come on, you are taking swipes at me and yet it's me who knows what's going on there and you are clearly just taking random pot shots at me for it, with little fact or information behind you and aside from being embarrassing to yourself, it's insulting to me.

Either educate yourself, allow other people to do it for you, or stay out of it.