If America Fell Tomorrow

If America fell tomorrow, everyone who's not American would be toasting it up and having a permasmile on their face because it would make themselves feel better... No more underlaying complex....


And if one of your native countries fell tomorrow, the US would be there trying to help, people in the US would be donating money to help the cause, and nobody here would be laughing it up or smiling gleefully...

That's the difference.

I agree, but...what's the point of your post? Did you accidentaly hit "new topic" instead of reply? Either way, good post.

I say this because i've been observing people's insulting words, what they say on the surface and what they really mean between the lines really equates to a dispisement of America, a hate, a strong dislike whatever you want to call it.


It's there.


And there really is no reason not to like the US, if you want to come up with political slandering thats fine but it's still not good enough of a justification...

Politics doesn't make a country.

Especially when it's full of diverse women and men from all over the world.


Hmmm 12 views and 1 post... I guess some people know it and don't want to come out and say it, but they have no problem spewing their hate all over the other threads, just so as long as there are others in that thread who agree with them.

Awww poor America....

give me a break PLEASE. for some reason the once proud nation of the USA is now riddled with thse who seem to think that everyone is out to get them, that nobody likes them

paranoia on a national scale

come on, surely you realise that it is your goverment that is disliked and not you? i personally seem to get on well with americans (most the of the time)

you wanna have someone to complain to? complain to the criminals that now run your country. they are the reasons people have a beef with america

and btw, you are not the only country that helps others. and i think you would find that my country would be willing to help you guys if you got in trouble

The government is obviously disliked, but i'm seeing way too many people on this board dissing American people and saying that they deserve to be disrespected ect...

Also I don't even know where your from so I can't say I know what your talking about...

true; there are many people out there who have developed a dislike for the people of america. it usually seems to be one of two things:

1: they're not bothering to actually talk to the americans, and therefore the ignorance developes. that is their fault, but there are also americans who are just as guilty

2: their dislike comes from speaking to those americans on this board who insist on trying to get a rise out of people. IMO, it is a pity, because if they were to speak to some of the more moderate americans here, i'm sure that, unless they are totally ignorant, they would share my point of view

btw i am from UK

i'm not having a pop at you for the sake of it, i'm trying to say that it is the government, not you guys. unfortunately though, the media likes to make out we all hate you, when we don't.

1.) Jealousy
2.) Ignorance
3.) Political Division

All of these contribute to a hatred of America by many people. I hear people talk about how we're a bunch of bigotted, slack-jawed hillbillies that hate gays and anyone who's not like us, when in actuality we encourage immigration, are made up of immigrants, and have the highest immigration rate of any country. Some people don't look at the good things we do, only the bad. Some people don't WANT to hear that we've done good things. No, don't mention that we were the top contributor (Not cash, but soldiers, boats, jets, etc.) to the tsunami victims...they still wanted 'evil' America out of their country. We go into Iraq and free people, and everyone gets mad at us for it... There are some people who are jealous of what we have. I don't mean to sound snotty or stupid, but it's true. Some people are jealous of the freedom we have. The same people that hate on America and say that we're this horrible country with no freedoms use those very freedoms to march down the street holding protests and making movies about the 'lack of freedom'. People talk about our patriot act, but neglect to mention that Canada has a bill that's exactly like our Patriot act, just not jazzed-up with a cool name.

Political division is another reason. Some people are so stuck in their political ways that they feel the need to hate anyone on the opposite side. I'm a Conservative, and most of my friends are liberal. We don't care. I believe that the whole purpose of political parties should be to work together and maybe even learn something from one another. Instead, they fight and insult each other. Whenever I debate on this site, I try to be as civil as possible. I state my opinion or facts, and all is said. However, there are people that I often debate with who feel the need to call me blind, ignorant, naive, insult my age, and throw in any other insult they can think of. Nobody's willing to compromise. They think, "If I hate Bush, then that must mean that I have to hate everything he does, and even if I find myself agreeing with something he says, I'll try to find things wrong with it." Politics aren't "all or nothing". Nobody is ever going to be 100% liberal or 100% Conservative. I've said this before, we don't know everything there is to know. Even the war in Iraq. I acknowlege that there are things wrong with this war. I've never said that I'm completely 100% for everything that happens there, but overall I think it's a good thing. I rarely hear anyone else say things like that. I never see an anti-Bush person talking about progress made in Iraq, or maybe admitting that destroying these terrorist organizations and setting people free is good. Why can't we just work together? I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy .

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Herman]

TrueLies get over yourself poor us we only have $359 billon to spend on defence and the whole world is against the USA.
Check out this thread link

Originally posted by Herman
1.) Jealousy
2.) Ignorance
3.) Political Division

also, i find that arrogance is a problem with some of the americans on this board. not a good way to make friends, you know

also i would like to go on record and say i am not jealous of america. i am happy in europe

Even the war in Iraq. I acknowlege that there are things wrong with this war.

at least you are willing to admit this

I never see an anti-Bush person talking about progress made in Iraq

I am anti bush, yet i will say right here, right now, that i am very pleased with the progress that is finally being made. however, i feel that things didnt always look this good. i am of the opinion that the bush regime made a monumental hash out of this war. they and the blair goverment lied to the world many, many times

or maybe admitting that destroying these terrorist organizations and setting people free is good.

i agree that it is good. but the Coalition didn't invade Iraq for anything as noble as saving the people, or taking out a dangerous terrorist network. we took out saddam to free up the oil reserves for consumption by the US and her allies

Originally posted by Daystar
also, i find that arrogance is a problem with some of the americans on this board. not a good way to make friends, you know

also i would like to go on record and say i am not jealous of america. i am happy in europe

I'm not arrogant. How is that arrogant? I didn't say that everyone who opposes Bush is jealous, but it would be foolish to say that jealousy isn't a reason for anyone to hate America.

I never see an anti-Bush person talking about progress made in Iraq

I am anti bush, yet i will say right here, right now, that i am very pleased with the progress that is finally being made. however, i feel that things didnt always look this good. i am of the opinion that the bush regime made a monumental hash out of this war. they and the blair goverment lied to the world many, many times

Ok, I shouldn't have said never. That was wrong of me. What I meant to say that it's a rarity these days to see anyone, pro-Bush or not to admit that they're wrong, or even perhapse reach a compromise with someone on the other side. And no, Bush didn't lie. What did he lie about? He did what he did based on the intelligence he had at the time. Being wrong is different from lieing.

i agree that it is good. but the Coalition didn't invade Iraq for anything as noble as saving the people, or taking out a dangerous terrorist network. we took out saddam to free up the oil reserves for consumption by the US and her allies

Except for that we haven't taken most of the oil for ourselves. Most of it has ben exported to Turkey and other middle-eastern countries. But I didn't post that as a means to start a debate on the war. There have been plenty of those on this site. All I'm saying as that the political parties, as Americans, should try to work together more instead of just fighting all the time. Nobody is ever 100% right, but if we work together we can get closer. Trying to change someones opinion through debate is different than just trying to prove that you're right and they're wrong. If nobody is ever willing to change their views, what's the point of arguing or debating?

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Herman]

TL, If America fell tomorrow no one would be toasting or laughng. They would be too busy trying to survive. If america fell tomorrow the world economy would fall wth it. Governments would collapse under thier own weight. revolutions would be rampant. Anyone who wishes for America to fall should take a good look at what happened after the fall of Rme.

You have voted TrueLies for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Now there is a differance between America and her government. I do not like our government, at the current state it is too big. Now as the country, I love it and if America were to collapse then the world would not be a happy place. Now aside from government donations to world charities there are the many donations from priviate charities and private individuals.

What I hate are the people on the board, who hate Americans and confuse America with her government. Yes we have a bad government, some of our leaders are crooks, but that does not make America a bad country. There like I said is a differance between the American people and the American government.

Sure our youth is getting ignorant and geting dumber, but I bet that Europe has its fair share of ignorant teenagers running around.

Whenever someone says that hate America, I just pray that it is our current government that loathe and not the nation itsself and the aide we have given in the past.

I'm not so sure everyone would be so happy to see America fall. They might thing they would be, but the fact of the matter is that much of the world, even those who aren't so fond of our policy, engage in commerce with us, cooperate with us militarily and strategically, communicate with us on an individual basis, and have cultural exchanges with us.
We do good and we are liked for it. We do wrong and we are disliked for it. To claim that we are wholly good and wholly disliked is ridiculous.

Faults are easier to see than virtues. How incredibly smooth and crystaline must a pane of glass be before it is exceptional? But how faint need a crack be to get that pane thrown in the trash? Do you see what I mean?

What would bring joy to the world is not if America were thrown in the trash, but if our cracks became less glaring and our virtues became more shining.
So, if you perceive that there would be celebration at America's demise, you should be asking yourself why, and you should ponder how to make America a nation whose passing would be lamented.

One last thought...
If America fell tomorrow, The Chinese Economy would fall the day after. The European Economy would fall the next day. All peace and security in every corner of the "3rd world", especially the middle east, would fall next week, and in the attempt to respond, the UN would fall as well.
A terrible happening to anyone on this planet will become a terrible happening to others as well.

Originally posted by Herman

All of these contribute to a hatred of America by many people. I hear people talk about how we're a bunch of bigotted, slack-jawed hillbillies that hate gays and anyone who's not like us,

I hear alot of that too...

when in actuality we encourage immigration, are made up of immigrants, and have the highest immigration rate of any country.

Of course America does, if it's legal... We all come from immgrants in this country, but the key is that it was done legally, Legal immigrants built this country, not illegal immigrants...

And America is now just adopting what Australia and England and a few other european countries have been doing for awhile... They don't accept just anybody unless they have a skill and can pull their own weight.

Some people don't look at the good things we do, only the bad.

That's because of the inferiority complex. When people have low self esteem (in general) they tend to look on the negatives in order to make themselves feel better... Some have an inferiority complex but cover it up with a false sense of pride and at the same time pick out the negative's to make themselves feel better... However, this will never be admitted, in fact, i'll get flamed for this, but it's psychology 101...

Some people don't WANT to hear that we've done good things.

I think because America has done many good things, the news travels fast and afar and I think people turn sour because they have to keep hearing about "oh america did this, and america did that," other countries don't get nearly the same amount of world recognition as the US does, unless of course your infamous for something thats not cool... We don't hear of the Netherlands contributing $ or helping out in some way, and it's because they aren't a superpower, personally I would love to hear more about world news then just American highlights, that get repeated over and over and over again. World news is refreshing, and I can see how other countries would get pissy with that when it's not their country but someone else's... But on the other hand, America welcomes overseas countries in terms of news, talent, innovation, ect, it's very much welcomed with open arms.

No, don't mention that we were the top contributor (Not cash, but soldiers, boats, jets, etc.) to the tsunami victims...they still wanted 'evil' America out of their country. We go into Iraq and free people, and everyone gets mad at us for it...

This is where they think the arrogance comes in... Boasting about what America does, I suppose if you toot your own horn too much it tends to get tiring. However with the Iraq situation, there is no reason whatsoever for the world to despise the actions the US military decided to take in order to free those people.

I do recall Iraqi's being pissed and not trusting the US in the gulf war when they were promised they won't be left behind, they revolted against Hussein, and America wasn't there to back them up.

This time however, Bush told them we weren't going to leave them, and well, we didn't, but the news around the world and at home spun it in a negative direction, being the wonderful spindoctor's they are, they got the world and half the country against the decision to free them for good. It wasn't cool, but if your a political participator with an agenda, situations will be spun so people can adapt and copy that opinion.

There are some people who are jealous of what we have. I don't mean to sound snotty or stupid, but it's true. Some people are jealous of the freedom we have. The same people that hate on America and say that we're this horrible country with no freedoms use those very freedoms to march down the street holding protests and making movies about the 'lack of freedom'.

This was once a poor man's country, men worked so hard to achieve economic freedom, and it has been passed down the line throughout centuries. This country was built from the ground up, but again, by stating facts isn't going to get people to understand and realise. One man's facts is another man's hogwash. You don't realise the freedoms you had until their gone, it's great protester's protest against not being free, yet their standing there holding up signs, shouting.. I believe that happened in China at Tienaman square and thousands of protesters were killed. I believe they do not know what they are talking about, I just think their naive, angry and have an axe to grind.

People talk about our patriot act, but neglect to mention that Canada has a bill that's exactly like our Patriot act, just not jazzed-up with a cool name.

Any western country will have a similar bill, including the UK... I was against the patriot until I looked more into to see what it actually had prevented, without that bill terrorists would of blown up the brooklyn bridge, a couple of malls, ect...
A good read about that is called "american jihad," you can buy it off amazon, or even rent the dvd farenhype 911, it goes into that book some more, and also talks with fbi agents who were able to distrupt al qaeda cells planning attacks.

It's amazing and uncomprehensible that people still don't get the magnitude of this situation, it's not a video game, these people are savages who have no problem killing people (EVER THEIR OWN PEOPLE! Never mind westerners), that includes the uk, canada, russia, spain, and even third world countries. It's not just a hard on for america, if you notice the timeline of events that have been taken place around the world with muslim terrorists and regular citizens you will see it's a hard on for everything we stand for... And the proof is right there in front of you if you bother to look.. For example, Iraqi elections, they don't want democracy in Iraq, they want a totalilarism regime, just like they had in Afghanistan.
Freedom is the devil, it takes away from the focus from Allah and the Islamic world of religion. They base their whole lives around one figment, and they live in poor conditions, so for them to try and push that agenda on people who don't want it is wrong. Their muslim map in 100 yrs is all of the world, their agenda is to populate throughout the world (they are doing it right now, they have the biggest birth rate in america) and make it muslim for all.. Bush is setting the stage for the future, he may be a dispised person right now (because of lack of understanding) but down the road in the future, he will be a hero who saw the danger of what could of been....

Some people are so stuck in their political ways that they feel the need to hate anyone on the opposite side.

We trust our TV'S to tell us the truth, the news is supposed to be fair, however it's not. I stopped watching the national news like nbc, cnn, and fox because I notice they all have one thing in common when they are interviewing their so called experts... They always ask, "what should we think of all this" It's crazy, and in a not so noticeable way, they become repetitive, and the spin gets out and it infiltrates our minds and we spew it back out and we hate on one another.. This happens all around the world, national news, STAY AWAY FROM IT.

Politics aren't "all or nothing". Nobody is ever going to be 100% liberal or 100% Conservative.

Yes, but once you label yourself something you try to stick with whatever label you decided to stick to yourself.

I've said this before, we don't know everything there is to know. Even the war in Iraq. I acknowlege that there are things wrong with this war. I've never said that I'm completely 100% for everything that happens there, but overall I think it's a good thing.

I feel the same way....

I rarely hear anyone else say things like that. I never see an anti-Bush person talking about progress made in Iraq, or maybe admitting that destroying these terrorist organizations and setting people free is good. Why can't we just work together? I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy

Crazy for wanting to establish some peace in a post bitter world....
Your a good egg Herman.



[edit on 10-2-2005 by TrueLies]

I can only speak for myself so here goes.....

I don't know anyone who'd rejoice at the 'fall of America'; as mwm1331 says, it would, now that the world economy exists, herard catastrophic economic collapse, worldwide, the like of which the world had never seen before.

This is, for exactly the same reasons, just as dumb an idea as any Americans here looking forward to a 'fall' of the EU/Europe.

I think some Americans on this site really ought to try and see there is a genuine and clear difference between that part of the world which loaths the current American administration (and usually any right-wing US administration/activity) and those who 'hate Americans'.

Europeans also tend not to have this quaint defference many Americans hold towards their gov either.

As I have said many times I have American family. I do not hate my own family.

It's true I have nothing but a derisory contempt for the neo-con types now perverting what America once was but that is entirely different to 'hate' and it is most certainly not aimed at all Americans.

It seems to me (as I have suspected for some time) beneath the belligerant posturing of some on the US right lurks a deep sense of insecurity and self-doubt.
Get over it, a healthy challenging debate is, ultimately, good for us all.


[edit on 10-2-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
It seems to me (as I have suspected for some time) beneath the belligerant posturing of some on the US right lurks a deep sense of insecurity and self-doubt.
Get over it, a healthy challenging debate is, ultimately, good for us all.


[edit on 10-2-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

enough said

Posted by Truelies
Of course America does, if it's legal... We all come from immgrants in this country, but the key is that it was done legally, Legal immigrants built this country, not illegal immigrants...

I completely agree with you. And it's not like it's overly hard to immigrate to America either.

And America is now just adopting what Australia and England and a few other european countries have been doing for awhile... They don't accept just anybody unless they have a skill and can pull their own weight.

That makes sense too. If you look at Bush's immigration plan, on the surface it looks bad, but then if you really look at it, it makes a whole lot of sense. He's not just going to grant citizenship to illegals, or let anyone come into America for free; he's going to make sure that the people coming to America on a work visa have the skills necessary, and a job set up for them to work at. Then after a period of time, they can go back to their original country and apply for perminant citizenship if they want.


You know, TL, I think that you and I are on the same wave-length for a lot of these things

Yes, but once you label yourself something you try to stick with whatever label you decided to stick to yourself.

I see a lot of this as well. In fact, I've even seen this happening to me, and I try to prevent it.

Crazy for wanting to establish some peace in a post bitter world....
Your a good egg Herman.

Thanks,
You're a good egg too .



[edit on 10-2-2005 by Herman]

TrueLies, two questions for you:

Where are you from?
Do you want America to fall?

First answer shouldnt be the name of the country and second should be yes or no answer. No need for elaborations. Would apprecite your honesty!

[edit on 26-2-2005 by robina]

Just because people don't like your choice of ideology doesn't mean you should drag the rest of America in with you. You are gladly divided with venom when it comes to your political views, but when you face dislike you try to share the burden with the rest of your countrymen, "See? See!? This is what they think of US!".

I will continue to love my American friends, the ones I like, always.

Toasting America's downfall? That offends me deeply. And remember, you just got a Way Above vote for that. Next time you decide to write something as ridiculous, remember the outpouring of grief around the entire world a day after September the 11th, 2001.


American Consulate, Sydney, Australia. September 12th, 2001.

More pictures here
I recommend that others reading this post find their country's picture of grief in this link (or another) and post just the picture and the country in which it was taken, in reply to this thread.



[edit on 26-2-2005 by cargo]

Originally posted by TrueLies
And if one of your native countries fell tomorrow, the US would be there trying to help, people in the US would be donating money to help the cause, and nobody here would be laughing it up or smiling gleefully...

That's the difference.

Yeah? Well let me add these links for your review:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There you have it, True Lies. Americans "laughing it up and smiling gleefully" at the expense of the tsunami victims. Don't hold yourself and your country in such righteous regard, because you have arseholes and wankers too just like any other country. And therein lies the whole point, there is no difference.