Seoul: N. Korea believed to have conducted 6th nuclear (hydrogen) test

originally posted by: AtypicalJ
North Korea's ultimate goal is a unified Korean Peninsula under Kim control

They will continue with bigger badder provocations, but will get to a point where they are ready to negotiate. They know the US is bluffing with military threats. They believe the nukes will give them great bargaining power. They will agree to dismantle their nuclear missile program, in exchange for a peace treaty with USA and South Korea and demand the US remove their military presence from the south. Both sides will sign non-aggression treaties. The north will probably hide some nukes before the UN inspectors come to monitor the nuke removal. Things will calm down for a few years. When the north sees the chance, they will quickly invade and quickly take Seoul and the south's military installations, hold the south hostage until they completely take it over. Nothing can be done to stop them at this point. China may protest publicly, but in reality be very pleased. They may even be planning this with the north.

But will the US agree to pull out of South Korea?

Hahaha... I very much doubt all that. NK does *not* see the world as the rest of us do. They believe the propaganda. They believe they can win against the US, because that's what their leader tell them. This is Hitler all over again, except now he's got nukes. Things wont calm down because he has a plan and his people has been drilled for this over 50 years. If you let him continue his plan, there will be war. If you want to stop his plan, there will be war.

My opinion has always been more aligned with the Chinese - Trump could have graciously not been part in the joint training and thrown them a bone first, as the greater nation. But I'm not so delusional I think it would have done diddly squat against what is obviously a complete maniac that listens to nobody. But at least they would have held the moral high ground until the end.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't think it will turn out anyway in the short term. Fact of the matter is that North Korea, just like any other nation that can afford to wield such weaponry are eventually going to become nuclear capable given the fact that the technologies are around 65 years old.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

I don't know why, they aren't talking about using them.

Well, I can't find anything where Korea attacked another country. So far, they only talk about retaliating if they are attacked.

On the other hand, Israel has attacked Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq. They have all but admitted to assassinating Iranian scientists. They have also committed terrorist attacks against US citizens, as well as attacking a US Naval ship in international waters.

If North Korea had done any of those things, we'd have boots on the ground faster than you could say "regime change."

Really? You don't remember the North Korean artillery strike of Seoul in 2010?

One quick google search.

Israel apologized for attacking the ship, mistaking it for an Egyptian ship. They also paid 12.89 million + 13 years interest to the families of the dead and to the wounded in the attack.

The 6-day war: The attack on 5 June follows a build-up of Arab military forces along the Israeli border.

The Arab states had been preparing to go to war against Israel with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria being aided by Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Algeria.

On 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

Add some context next time, Doom.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

In addition to the ROKS Cheonan.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

Really? You don't remember the North Korean artillery strike of Seoul in 2010?

One quick google search.

Israel apologized for attacking the ship, mistaking it for an Egyptian ship. They also paid 12.89 million + 13 years interest to the families of the dead and to the wounded in the attack.

The 6-day war: The attack on 5 June follows a build-up of Arab military forces along the Israeli border.

The Arab states had been preparing to go to war against Israel with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria being aided by Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Algeria.

On 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

Add some context next time, Doom.

How about this time.

First of all, it was not an artillery strike on Seoul in 2010. It was a strike on the island of Yeonpyeong. If you read between the lines of the AP story, and some things not covered in the AP story, you'll note:

1. Possession of the island was in dispute. NK and SK had been quibbling over maritime borders since the 70s.

2. The South Korean military was conducting exercises on and around the island. NK had contacted SK before the exercises and warned them that they would not tolerate live fire exercises in what it considered it's territorial waters. SK ignored the warning and began firing shells from that location. SK says they were firing away from NK. That's when NK fired artillery towards the island.

So this was hardly the unprovoked attack portrayed in Western media.

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So far as the Six Day War, the simple fact is Israel attacked first. Of course they say they were about to be attacked. It seems every time a superior military power wants to justify an attack against a weaker one they claim they were about to be attacked. We've seen enough of that in the past couple of decades, and we're seeing it again today.

---------

My biggest problem with Israel is the attack on the USS Liberty. They can say it was an accident. They can pay money that they get from US foreign aid. But I'm a former sailor in the US Navy, and I can tell you their explanations and apologies are pure BS. Every US Navy ship has a big US flag flying on the fantail whenever they are at sea. You can't miss it. The attacking planes were jamming US frequencies, and the first things they shot up were the communications antennas. The pilots told their commanders that it was an American ship, and they were ordered to continue the attack.

For well over two hours the Liberty was attacked by jets and torpedoes. Why would Israel devote that much firepower into sinking what it supposedly thought was a horse transport? The pilots and crews of the torpedo boats were given medals for their participation in the attack. Except for one pilot who broke off the attack because he recognized it as a US ship. He was court-martialed for not following orders. What kind of military hands out medals for attacking an ally by accident?

But what really boils my blood about the Liberty attack is where the Israelis were shooting at men trying to get into life rafts. War or no, it takes a special kind of scum to shoot at pilots bailing out of planes or men in life rafts. That's not warfare, that's just plain cold-blooded murder. But Israel wanted no witnesses. It's pretty clear to me that the whole event was a designed to be a false flag attack to draw the US into the Six Day War.

--------

In any case, as much as I dislike Israel, even I wouldn't want to see them as victims of a US invasion. Because we all know what that means. The US media would spend weeks or months telling us how mighty and dangerous the Israeli military is. Then would come sanctions, maybe a no-fly zone thrown in. Eventually, the military would move in. The Israeli Air Force would be demolished in a week. The Israeli army would be decimated in a month. Then the US would spend at least a decade killing a million-plus civilians.

That's the way it went in Afghanistan. That's the way it went in Iraq. And that's what we have in store for North Korea. And I don't understand why so many people hate North Koreans so much that they want to see over a million civilians butchered. For the most part, these are just normal people like everyone else. They are just trying to feed, clothe, and house their families. They don't want to go to war with anyone. They don't want to hurt anyone. They just want to live out their lives in peace and as much prosperity as they can manage.

But the cry comes out from America: KILL THOSE PEOPLE KILL THOSE PEOPLE KILL THOSE PEOPLE

I just don't understand the level of hatred someone must feel in their heart to want to see over a million people they don't even know killed, and millions more lives destroyed.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

The death toll in Iraq was debunked. it was not over a million dead before the U S left. That british report was crap.

originally posted by: merka

originally posted by: AtypicalJ

Hahaha... I very much doubt all that. NK does *not* see the world as the rest of us do. They believe the propaganda. They believe they can win against the US, because that's what their leader tell them. This is Hitler all over again, except now he's got nukes. Things wont calm down because he has a plan and his people has been drilled for this over 50 years. If you let him continue his plan, there will be war. If you want to stop his plan, there will be war.

My opinion has always been more aligned with the Chinese - Trump could have graciously not been part in the joint training and thrown them a bone first, as the greater nation. But I'm not so delusional I think it would have done diddly squat against what is obviously a complete maniac that listens to nobody. But at least they would have held the moral high ground until the end.

I don't think it is funny. Things might not go exactly as I described, but Kim wants South Korea. He knows he will soon have to go to negotiations. He knows his viable nuclear missile threat will give him a whole lot to use to bargain with. His father has taught him well. He isn't building them because he fears US invasion. They know why Saddam and Gaddafi were attacked, and Kim knows he is not an economic threat to the west. If USA were going to invade, it would make sense they would do it before he had nukes. He is going to use his nukes to get what he wants in negotiations. And he wants US troops out of South Korea among other things. He thinks he has a much better chance to get what he wants with working nukes. He is probably right.

The NK people may believe they can win a war with USA, but the ones on top aren't even thinking of trying. Kim Jong Un is not the maniac the MSM want you to believe. He knows war with USA is suicide. He knows what he wants.

a reply to: AtypicalJ

The US won't abandon South Korea. Not only would it be a massive humanitarian blunder, it would also be a major strategic mistake. South Korea is a major base in order for the US to project power into Asia. We won't be giving it up.

a reply to: Aazadan

I agree. US will not leave South Korea. But Kim wants that and will say he will give up his nukes to get it. USA knows what will happen if they leave, no matter how much Kim promises to be nice. I just hope the South Koreans are on the same page with this.

Just saw a blurb on twitter that Japan is prepping for the possible evacuation of 60000 Japanese citizens in S. Korea.

The source is zerhedge soo...

Japan Prepares For Mass Evacuation Of 60,000 Citizens From South Korea

It won't be the first time that a near-panicked Japan has came close to the edge when it comes to North Korea, and in preparation for an "emergency" was planning to evacuate its citizens located in South Korea. The last such notable spike in escalations took place in April, when as the Yomiuri Shimbun reported at the time, the Japanese government had asked the U.S. to provide advance consultation if it is about to launch military action against North Korea, and "ramped up preparations for emergency situations", including the potential evacuation of some 57,000 Japanese citizens currently in South Korea.

Fast forward to today, when moments ago Japan's Nikkei reported that as tensions on the Korean Peninsula reach new heights following Pyongyang's first (allegedly) hydrogen bomb test, Japan is planning a possible mass evacuation of the nearly 60,000 Japanese citizens currently living in or visiting South Korea.

"There is a possibility of further provocations," Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said at a Monday meeting with ruling coalition lawmakers. "We need to remain extremely vigilant and do everything we can to ensure the safety of our people."

In response to North Korea's sixth nuclear test, Japan and the U.S. are seeking a peaceful resolution by ratcheting up economic pressure on the rogue state through an oil embargo and other measures, while South Korea's president has also called for a currency/FX blockade of the Kim regime. And yet, what has spooked Tokyo is that on Sunday, Defense Secretary James Mattis also said any threat to the U.S. or its allies "will be met with a massive military response - a response both effective and overwhelming." Which means thousands of Japanese may soon be in harm's way.

click link for article...

a reply to: AtypicalJ

No one will believe Kim will give up his nukes in order to get the US out of South Korea because North Korea doesn't have a great track record at honoring their deals, especially in regards to abandoning a nuke program in exchange for financial incentives. No one believes they would do it (unlike Iran, who has been relatively trustworthy).

The only way the US is leaving is if Korea reunifies, which eliminates the US pretense for that base.

a reply to: Aazadan

With any deal Kim makes to give up nukes, he would have to allow UN inspectors in to verify he is being honest. He probably already has some hidden where they won't be found in case of this scenario. No, NK cannot be trusted and never have are will

originally posted by: AtypicalJ
a reply to: Aazadan

With any deal Kim makes to give up nukes, he would have to allow UN inspectors in to verify he is being honest. He probably already has some hidden where they won't be found in case of this scenario. No, NK cannot be trusted and never have are will

"Giving up" his nukes is not Kim Jong's end game. He wants to be a member of the elite nuclear club of nations.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: AtypicalJ
a reply to: Aazadan

With any deal Kim makes to give up nukes, he would have to allow UN inspectors in to verify he is being honest. He probably already has some hidden where they won't be found in case of this scenario. No, NK cannot be trusted and never have are will

"Giving up" his nukes is not Kim Jong's end game. He wants to be a member of the elite nuclear club of nations.

He is pretty much in that club now, but what is that going to get him? I dont think it will get sanctions removed or make many friends. Though I may be wrong. I think he will pretend to destroy his nukes for something in return.

originally posted by: AtypicalJ

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: AtypicalJ
a reply to: Aazadan

With any deal Kim makes to give up nukes, he would have to allow UN inspectors in to verify he is being honest. He probably already has some hidden where they won't be found in case of this scenario. No, NK cannot be trusted and never have are will

"Giving up" his nukes is not Kim Jong's end game. He wants to be a member of the elite nuclear club of nations.

He is pretty much in that club now, but what is that going to get him? I dont think it will get sanctions removed or make many friends. Though I may be wrong. I think he will pretend to destroy his nukes for something in return.

Kim is not a recognized member, with all the privileges. He's like a teenager who wants to be the member of a fraternity.

a reply to: carewemust

Privileges?
You mean like, he's not a member of Mar A Largo either?

Pfft. He's the boss of his country. Which has nukes.

No big thing.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Uh oh. evacing 60 k people back to japan eh? Woudnt that signal to kimmy they are getting ready to strike and cause him to shell?

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

Really? You don't remember the North Korean artillery strike of Seoul in 2010?

One quick google search.

Israel apologized for attacking the ship, mistaking it for an Egyptian ship. They also paid 12.89 million + 13 years interest to the families of the dead and to the wounded in the attack.

The 6-day war: The attack on 5 June follows a build-up of Arab military forces along the Israeli border.

The Arab states had been preparing to go to war against Israel with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria being aided by Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Algeria.

On 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

Add some context next time, Doom.

So far as the Six Day War, the simple fact is Israel attacked first. Of course they say they were about to be attacked. It seems every time a superior military power wants to justify an attack against a weaker one they claim they were about to be attacked. We've seen enough of that in the past couple of decades, and we're seeing it again today.

---------

My biggest problem with Israel is the attack on the USS Liberty. They can say it was an accident. They can pay money that they get from US foreign aid. But I'm a former sailor in the US Navy, and I can tell you their explanations and apologies are pure BS. Every US Navy ship has a big US flag flying on the fantail whenever they are at sea. You can't miss it. The attacking planes were jamming US frequencies, and the first things they shot up were the communications antennas. The pilots told their commanders that it was an American ship, and they were ordered to continue the attack.

For well over two hours the Liberty was attacked by jets and torpedoes. Why would Israel devote that much firepower into sinking what it supposedly thought was a horse transport? The pilots and crews of the torpedo boats were given medals for their participation in the attack. Except for one pilot who broke off the attack because he recognized it as a US ship. He was court-martialed for not following orders. What kind of military hands out medals for attacking an ally by accident?

But what really boils my blood about the Liberty attack is where the Israelis were shooting at men trying to get into life rafts. War or no, it takes a special kind of scum to shoot at pilots bailing out of planes or men in life rafts. That's not warfare, that's just plain cold-blooded murder. But Israel wanted no witnesses. It's pretty clear to me that the whole event was a designed to be a false flag attack to draw the US into the Six Day War.

--------

In any case, as much as I dislike Israel, even I wouldn't want to see them as victims of a US invasion. Because we all know what that means. The US media would spend weeks or months telling us how mighty and dangerous the Israeli military is. Then would come sanctions, maybe a no-fly zone thrown in. Eventually, the military would move in. The Israeli Air Force would be demolished in a week. The Israeli army would be decimated in a month. Then the US would spend at least a decade killing a million-plus civilians.

That's the way it went in Afghanistan. That's the way it went in Iraq. And that's what we have in store for North Korea. And I don't understand why so many people hate North Koreans so much that they want to see over a million civilians butchered. For the most part, these are just normal people like everyone else. They are just trying to feed, clothe, and house their families. They don't want to go to war with anyone. They don't want to hurt anyone. They just want to live out their lives in peace and as much prosperity as they can manage.

But the cry comes out from America: KILL THOSE PEOPLE KILL THOSE PEOPLE KILL THOSE PEOPLE

I just don't understand the level of hatred someone must feel in their heart to want to see over a million people they don't even know killed, and millions more lives destroyed.

Actually, The Arab countries declared war on Israel the day after it became a state in 1948.

I don't know if US ships at the time shined lights on their flags because the incident started in the early morning. But, reading the account from multiple sources, it sounds like just bad luck and communication. Egyptian warships were known to disguise their identities with Western markings, Israel said they would attack any unidentified vessels in the vicinity of their coast, etc.

You realize that this isn't the first incident of its kind, nor the last correct?

And, why would Israel provoke a country that not only helped it achieve statehood, but could also wipe it off the face of the earth?

Was Israel able to amass so much power and influence in 20 some odd years time so as to hold all of America and Europe hostage? To what end? And where is the fruition of this dastardly plan after all these decades? From all that I can perceive, Israel as gone backwards in its scheme with nothing to show but reduced borders.

As for the NK people, they don't have a choice. You act as if NK is some sort of Republic or Democracy. Its a glorified Gulag. They work for the state, at the states whim, or they are killed. Hell, most don't even know that there is a world outside of NK that exists. No one wants to see them butchered, that's why for the last 30 years everyone has tried diplomacy.

You're being a little hyperbolic. if anything, the majority of people are saying KILL KIM.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Xcathdra

Looks like a magnitude 6.3 was recorded by USGS and S. Korea detected a 5.6 magnitude. S. Korea, originating in N. Korea. So N. Korea appears to have conducted a new nuclear test in violation of UN resolutions.

How we get from earthquake to conducting H bomb test, without any other than a USGS earthquake report, is part of the problem.

I say they faked a test after 'propaganda' showing Kim inspecting metal thingy. Prove me wrong.

Unless you can show the results of testing the atmosphere for radiation that reveals a nuclear test (isotopes escape from underground no matter how deep the test), then you're just escalating tensions. Capture of any radioactive particles is done by the aircraft in the Constant Phoenix program.

THEIR doing under ground tests , kind sir.
If they had not been doing underground they would have killed off the north korean people years ago.

There would have been nucler fall out spreading over china and japan years ago.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: intrptr

Edit: Heres a thread on a quake here in the US. Lets see how quick people are to declare its nuclear testing... not.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

No, that is most likily connented to the increase of activitie in Yellow stone park.