The right to resist arrest and YOU!

Whether you believe you have the right to resist arrest or not, it's not a good idea to try. Certainly the legal system doesn't really function in a way that really works as intended. That's to say that if you are arrested, you will probably be convicted of something in court unless you have an awesome lawyer.

So having your day in court really means nothing except that you can at least have the luxury of formality. They at least have to go through the motions and pretend it's fair.

But this is beside the point. When you're dealing with a police officer, you're dealing with one of the most powerful people you will ever personally meet in your daily life (assuming you're an average citizen). You must not forget that and you must not treat them in a way that challenges their authority. When a police officer is present, they own that situation and it is unwise to challenge them. You can (in theory) challenge them in court where the judge is the authority figure.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

At least you're honest enough to own it.

Yup. You honest enough to answer my question as to if you would stop a fellow officer doing wrong?

a reply to: Blaine91555

So insecure they think cooperating is a sign of weakness rather than the sign of strength and control it actually is. So scared of their shadows they think that everyone and everything is out to get them, so they put on the fake show of how brave they are, not realizing the world is laughing at them.

You realize you just described most LEO's today instead of the citizens?

Cooperating with LEO's just doing their jobs is far from rocket science. Anyone over the age of 10 should get it.

Bullying people, shooting unarmed people, using excessive force, or using their authority to get their way isn't their job. Remaining silent while other officers commit those mentioned acts aren't doing their job. Anyone over the age of 10 should get THAT.

originally posted by: Simon_Boudreaux

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

At least you're honest enough to own it.

Yup. You honest enough to answer my question as to if you would stop a fellow officer doing wrong?

Honest enough to know that, like I already said, it doesn't really matter what I say.

If I say "nah, I woulda just stood there" you'll of course accept that as par for the course. If I say "yea, I would've stopped it" you'll scoff and come up with a litany of reasons why I'm probably lying.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Simon_Boudreaux

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

At least you're honest enough to own it.

Yup. You honest enough to answer my question as to if you would stop a fellow officer doing wrong?

Honest enough to know that, like I already said, it doesn't really matter what I say.

If I say "nah, I woulda just stood there" you'll of course accept that as par for the course. If I say "yea, I would've stopped it" you'll scoff and come up with a litany of reasons why I'm probably lying.

If those would be my automatic responses I wouldn't have asked. I ask because that is what needs done. Take the nurse incident. How many other cops were there just watching instead of stepping in to oh I don't know..serve and protect maybe?

a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

Of course it's what needs to happen. There was any number of opportunities to de-escalate things. Another officer could've stepped in and played the proverbial "good cop" while the detective took his Hulk Hogan hairstyle outside for a minute.

a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

If you take the time to look, you will realize there are around 800,000 officers in this country. To say misconduct is just an anomaly is factual, to imply that even a significant portion of them are bad is not factual and its just fabricated fantasy.

To not cooperate when detained is well, just plain old fashioned dumb. Like I said, not rocket science. Good cop, bad cop or in between, to not cooperate is not rational.

Why do you think it's smart to resist arrest?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

Of course it's what needs to happen. There was any number of opportunities to de-escalate things. Another officer could've stepped in and played the proverbial "good cop" while the detective took his Hulk Hogan hairstyle outside for a minute.

Thank you for answering. Didn't mean to seem badgering if I did.

Now the question is how do we reach that point? I've read a lot of things by not only you, but our other LEO's here and I don't remember ever reading anything that leads me to believe any of you are like the cops we see in these videos on an almost daily basis. Nor do I envy any of you on the things you deal with during your shifts. I've had many of these conversations with LEO where I live, small town, we all know each other. So I understand the brotherhood. I understand there are consequences that come about to the cops that do speak out. What actions can be taken to make it safer for those officers willing to stand up to stop it, instead of silently watching it happen?

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

If you take the time to look, you will realize there are around 800,000 officers in this country. To say misconduct is just an anomaly is factual, to imply that even a significant portion of them are bad is not factual and its just fabricated fantasy.

I know not all are bad in a misconduct capacity. When one cop is using conduct that would land the rest of us in jail, or arresting people because they aren't getting their way, and there are other cops present, that makes them guilty by accessory right? They try the same excuse of accessory on us, why not them? Maybe we should start charging the cops that stand there with the same crime as the bad cop? See if that works.

Something has to happen. Growing up I was taught that cops were someone you could look up to, a role model for your community. Now, it's you have to decide if it's safer to fight the bad guy or dial 911. It's a crap shoot anymore. If you do call 911 you hope you get human cop instead of Roid rage cop, or nervous trigger finger cop.

To not cooperate when detained is well, just plain old fashioned dumb. Like I said, not rocket science. Good cop, bad cop or in between, to not cooperate is not rational.

I agree. If you've done something wrong. And I've never claimed to be rational.

Why do you think it's smart to resist arrest?

Never said it was smart.

originally posted by: Simon_Boudreaux

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Simon_Boudreaux

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

At least you're honest enough to own it.

Yup. You honest enough to answer my question as to if you would stop a fellow officer doing wrong?

Honest enough to know that, like I already said, it doesn't really matter what I say.

If I say "nah, I woulda just stood there" you'll of course accept that as par for the course. If I say "yea, I would've stopped it" you'll scoff and come up with a litany of reasons why I'm probably lying.

If those would be my automatic responses I wouldn't have asked. I ask because that is what needs done. Take the nurse incident. How many other cops were there just watching instead of stepping in to oh I don't know..serve and protect maybe?

i just updated that thread with more info, including why the University Hospital officers didnt interfere.

Their chief stated they were also under the impression, like the Salt Lake City officer, that the implied consent law for unconscious people was still valid. So even Hospital police were operating the same as Salt Lake City police, even though the Hospital claimed salt Lake pd agreed to the Hospitals policy (which was not true). Even Hospital policy didnt apply to the Hospital Police.

So that situation probably is not the best to try to use as an example for your argument to be honest.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't see how this excuses Payne actions. What laws or agreements were/are in place matters nothing to me. He didn't like being told no. Instead of being a professional he chose to push his authority around. He could have gotten in touch with a supervisor to find out how to proceed, like the nurse did while reading the paper to him. What was the big hurry? The truck driver wasn't going anywhere. A cop that isn't all about his power trip would have known that a few minutes on the phone could have cleared it up.

The hospital must think his actions were a bit over the top as they've banned direct interactions between LEO and nurses and the civil attorney thinks the university police should have intervened. I watched the video again with the sound higher and the guys at the end were even telling Payne his behavior was uncalled for.


And then you posted this addition on the other thread, which just goes to show the bully didn't like the nurse not bowing down to him.

The ambulance company's president said Tuesday that Detective Jeff Payne was fired after a video of him surfaced in which he said he would retaliate against the nurse, the AP reported.

This tells me all I need to know about Payne. I've seen this asshole's type before.

a reply to: Simon_Boudreaux

Let me try this again...

A person can argue / debate / agree / disagree with the law while at the same time not supporting the person involved. I have stated the officer could have handled the situation different.

My point was more than just SLCPD viewed the law differently than the hospital and was a response to your comment on why other officers didnt step in. I was providing you with the answer to that question.

With that said I dont want to derail this thread since we have another thread ongoing with the Utah incident.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ah, I got you now. I still don't, and won't excuse his actions. But, that's for the other thread once I get caught up with it.

a reply to: Crumbles

Every time they pull you over they record in their system that you have been contacted and why.....even if they do not give you a ticket.