Designating Antifa as a terrorist organization will lead to Tyranny

I should tell you that I am not a fan of antifa.

In fact, I made a thread that discusses how antifa and other SJWs are trying to start their own Maoist Cultural Revolution:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyways back to the topic:

Now why should we not make antifa a terrorist organization?

Before I begin, the article explains the difference between domestic terrorism and foreign terrorism:

While domestic terrorism is defined in federal law, it is not criminalized as such — unlike international terrorism. Nor, significantly, does federal law prescribe a formal designation process for domestic terrorist organizations, as it does for foreign terrorist organizations. There are very good reasons for this, several of which I outlined in an NRO column during the Charlottesville mayhem.


There are federal-law processes for designating foreign and international terrorism because defending against foreign threats to national security is primarily a federal responsibility. The foreign-terrorist designation process helps the United States to deter and punish activities over which we might otherwise have no jurisdiction — including activities that occur completely or primarily outside U.S. territory (e.g., the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in East Africa and the 2000 bombing of a naval destroyer in Yemen). This is not something the states can effectively address.
It makes international terrorism saliently different from domestic terrorism, the activities of which unquestionably violate a plethora of state laws.


The designation of foreign terrorist organizations exploits the fact that their operatives do not have the same degree of constitutional protection as American citizens. Much as we revile domestic terrorists, we do not want Americans — citizens, presumed innocent, fully protected by the Constitution — treated the same way, particularly when they are easily investigated, infiltrated, prosecuted, and imprisoned under domestic law, primarily state law.

For the most part, foreign terrorists are aliens. There is a smattering of U.S. nationals among them, but because foreign terrorist organizations are deemed foreign powers, Americans who act as their agents operate in an ambit of heightened federal national-security power.

Under Federal Law, Antifa counts as domestic terrorism since many of the members there are born here. Terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda do not have the same protections as US citizens and therefore can be punished without oversight.

The writer does on and say:

Terrorism is often bound up with dissent against our country and our government’s policies. . . . When protest is internal, when it is engaged in by Americans against the government and other groups of Americans, it often involves constitutionally protected political speech and assembly. Moreover, our regard for the privacy interests of our fellow Americans — even those who have come to hold their own country in contempt — is considerably higher than it is for foreign actors, and that limits the degree of surveillance and other police intrusion we are willing to abide. After all, the Constitution is a guarantee of the inherent rights of Americans; it does not grant those rights, and therefore the government, in upholding the Constitution, does not get to pick and choose which Americans are protected.


When it comes to national security, then, we do not want the federal government investigating the constitutionally protected activities of Americans unless there are solid grounds to believe they are serving a foreign power (including a foreign or international terrorist organization). This is not just an airy theoretical position. There is a dark history of federal-government excess in investigations of sedition. Probes involving Communist penetration of our government and violent political radicalism in our streets have infamously resulted in domestic spying against innocent Americans who, however misguided their policy preferences may have been, were neither traitors nor insurrectionists.

The best way to fight domestic terrorism is through Police and other law enforcement agencies:

From a law-enforcement perspective, the best protection we have against domestic terrorism is state, city, and municipal police. They are vastly more numerous than federal law-enforcement agents. (We have, for instance, approximately 35,000 police officers in New York City alone, but fewer than 14,000 FBI agents in the entire country.) The locals have more and often better intelligence sources at the street level, where domestic terrorism occurs, than their federal counterparts. Indeed, this is why the FBI invites robust local law-enforcement participation in its Joint Terrorism Task Forces, which are designed to combat both international and domestic terrorist operations on U.S. soil.

Now this where it gets interesting, by designating Antifa as a terrorist group, you basically gave the Federal Government to designate anyone opposing them them as 'terrorist':

Let’s close by getting back to the civil-rights concerns. I know this sounds crazy, but Donald Trump will not be president forever. In fact, he hasn’t been president that long . . . meaning, it was not so long ago that we were dealing with an Obama administration — and its media-Democrat pom-pom squads — that regarded limited-government conservatives, Second Amendment proponents, and many veterans returning from overseas military service as “right-wing extremists” who posed a threat of “domestic terrorism.” Someday, maybe sooner than we’d like to think, Democrats are going to be in power again. Do we really want to give them enhanced federal powers to harass ideological opponents under the guise of “designating” domestic terrorist threats?

So yes folks you read that right, by designating Antifa as a terrorist organization, it will open a Pandora's box.

Already, we are seeing signs we are heading that direction. For example, we have CNN blackmailing a dude for making fun of them and Conservative activists being de-monetized on Youtube.

www.nationalreview.com...

They are active in other nations, making them a global terror network.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Terrorist orgs are always easy to spot before they decided to officially announce themselves. Let this one do the same, let them brag over what they want to do then nail them on exactly that. If they prove to be relatively harmless, a flash in the pan, they''ll fade away. Their actions will speak for themselves. And if they speak too loudly, lower the boom.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Well here's the thing, the US government can make up a false excuse and declare that US Antifa is different from other countries.

The reality is the TPTB are looking for ways to erase our freedoms. Using Antifa as an excuse to remove political opponents would be the perfect opportunity.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Antifa is part of a much larger plan to turn the US into a totalitarian state.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

It makes little difference in the domestic terrorism arena. It allows the FBI to investigate their actions. That is truly the extent of it they still have to do something wrong. It just makes it easier for police to build a case against them since they can request FBI support. Domestic terrorists are still covered under the constitution being US citizens. Most domestic terrorism falls under hate crimes and will be tried for that instead. This is what they will try the man that ran his car in to the crowd with.

The FBI doesn't have jurisdiction to investigate virginia. However in domestic terrorism they do. It in no way can help prevent anything since they have to wait until an act occurs. So your fear that it is going after any one is just false. This article was written by someone that doesn't realize the rules for domestic terrorism is not the same as foreign terrorism.

No sorry, that's complete bullsh!t, parsing words and nit picking over a politically correct designation isn't going to work here. They are terrorists, by definition and no one will be better off by not labeling them as such.

They violently assault people for their political ideology. - That is the base definition of terrorism.

This is an organized highly funded and supported group that openly declares themselves and identifies as communists, make open threats of assassination of the POTUS, burn American flags and violently attack people for exercising their First Amendment rights.

They are a terrorist organization, period. There's no theoretical forecast or spin you can put on that to say that any group may labeled as such in the future for simply disagreeing with government. No, if you acquire the previously mentioned hallmarks of Antifa; attacking innocent people for their political bias, violating their constitutional rights, ect. then yes, you deserve the same designation.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
They are active in other nations, making them a global terror network.

They would have to prove support in some way to even make this claim. Just because the name is the same wouldn't matter. They would still have the full protection of US citizens.

a reply to: starwarsisreal


We should punish people for breaking the law. We should arrest people for violating the law.


We must never become a nation where we punish people for thinking differently.

a reply to: rexsblues

Yes I agree that they are a band of thugs but we have to be extremely careful on how to word it out. From what I'm seeing here, this could be a potential loophole for the TPTB to exploit.

Not much point in labeling them anything if the police are ordered to stand down.
You're right though, it opens a door we don't want to.

Antifa terrorizes people and actually attempts to squash freedom of speech of others using violent techniques.

They need to be squashed like a bug. I don't even like to squash some bugs, lets make it a specific bug like a cockroach.

a reply to: rickymouse

Yes I agree we have to stop Antifa, but we need to do it carefully so it doesn't cost us our freedoms.

Remember Ben Franklin's words:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither. He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.

I have lived through thirteen administrations. Each one brought it's own policies. One thing they all have in common, they are transient.
Before you saw tyranny, you would see a dissolution of the States into regions of anarchy. Tyranny takes a mindset and a large group of likeminded individuals in concert to take over. You would have to overcome law enforcement and the military.

It's a doubtful eventuality.....

ANTIFA, a group of malcontents that will finally starve out. Soros might be rich, but he's not bulletproof, neither is Kim Jung Un...

I believe it was another member who wrote this.. "Instead of standing for something, today people define themselves by what they stand against.

And this never leads anywhere good, no matter who does it".

a reply to: Plotus

I have explained several times declaring someone a domestic terrorist doesn't effect any of their rights to a trial. They must first do something that is domestic terrorism to event be arrested. The govt can't do anything without an act of terrorism. The only thing thus changes id if an individual does something they don't have to get a court order to access their phone records and don't need a warrant to enter their property. This is done to catch coconspirators and build a case for prosecutors.

In other words thus argument is fake news because the supreme court has established all US citizens get constitutional protection. They can't be detained without charges. They have the right to an atterney. They are free from investigation until an act is committed. To be honest being called a domestic terrorist gives little benefit to the got other then building a case for prosecution.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Plotus

I have explained several times declaring someone a domestic terrorist doesn't effect any of their rights to a trial. They must first do something that is domestic terrorism to event be arrested. The govt can't do anything without an act of terrorism. The only thing thus changes id if an individual does something they don't have to get a court order to access their phone records and don't need a warrant to enter their property. This is done to catch coconspirators and build a case for prosecutors.

In other words thus argument is fake news because the supreme court has established all US citizens get constitutional protection. They can't be detained without charges. They have the right to an atterney. They are free from investigation until an act is committed. To be honest being called a domestic terrorist gives little benefit to the got other then building a case for prosecution.

Well actually...if you disavow them as american citizens they have no protection under that anymore. Being a terrorist you lose your right to be a american citizen(or a t least you should be)

Not hardly -_-

At this point I wouldn't call them terrorists, but it's getting awfully close, isn't it? They might be the JV team right now, but I remember that term being used recently and that didn't turn out so well, did it?

You must punish them according to law. However, before they can plan something big I hope the Feds are listening and do something first!

Antifa is just a collection of different groups, from disaffected "anarchists" and "anti-capitalists", through to the "save the whale" brigade. Sadly, nested under this banner are the people who like smashing things up, but they've been at it for decades chucking stones and intimidating - you just need to look at the antics of the Animal Liberation Front. For some it's a rite of passage. If Antifa did not exist, you would still have a cadre of balaclava-wearing twats who come together to agitate and storm MacDonalds.

No, what we (or rather, yiou) have in the US at the moment is a divided society. Calling one group of thugs "terrorists" is not going to solve the problems. Perhaps the more grown up approach is to treat people who step outside social norms and break the law as law breakers. That's what other countries do. Address the cause.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

It is a whole different story to protest, and to recide to complete anarchy. ANTIFA has nothing to do with protesting, but a whole lot with political violence, silencing dialogue, and looting shops.

They are a politicial terror organisation.

Funded by Democrats, Soros and Hillary's campaign office.

As much as I dislike Antifa, I feel labeling them as a terrorist group is going to far. I'd agree with labeling them as a hate group like the KKK.