Mattis goes against Trump.

originally posted by: Joneselius
What you're seeing here is the CIA controlled power structure in America going full swing.

The will of the people is so 1700's......

The CIA runs America, it has since it's inception and will continue to until American's switch off their TV.

The CIA was created in 1947 dude.

originally posted by: Dudemo5
Yay my team is not brainwashed! Yay everyone who disagrees with me is! It's the only explanation that makes sense for I am more awesome than sweet Jesus on a Tootsie Roll.

lol... i'm sending you my drycleaning bill for that one

originally posted by: WeRpeons
Mattis and other military personnel know that transgenders are just as capable and effective serving in the military as anyone else. I'm sure they feel anything that will reduce the number of soldiers in our military will only weaken it and not strengthen it. When a lot of his appointed generals are going against Trump's decision, it's a telling sign he never asked for any input from those who had a better insight on the issue, not surprising.

So are the applicants with flat feet...

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: [post=22617700]

Sick of these idiots not serving the President. Ifthey are not on board with his agenda they need to leave

And the president is welcome to fire them if he feels they're not on board with his agenda.

a reply to: Shamrock6

He's going to run out of people in short order. Amazing how all these personally selected 'best on the planet' people so quickly turn out to be flakes and losers. Is Trump just incompetent when it comes to vetting and recruiting staff? I've never heard of anyone having such a crappy track record of hiring. Seems to me that with so many highly accomplished and intelligent people breaking with Trump it must be Trump himself that is the issue. Duh!

a reply to: Aazadan

I do not think it is reasonable to call this a coup, and there are several important reasons for that.

First of all, a military coup would see the military coming in and being responsible for all things of government, not just the policy which pertains to military actions and national security.

Currently, as far as I can make out, the US military's various figures are in control of nothing, other than perhaps policy which directly effects how they proceed on the international stage, and how forces are organised and administrated. To be honest, that has its pros and cons. On the one hand, the military must always be beholden to the executive branch, which is a totally reasonable thing to suggest, unless your executive branch is full of dysfunctional sociopaths, intellectual non entities, and people more interested in the contents of their pockets, than the contents of their policy.

On the other, the military must be administrated in an effective manner, and dealt with in a useful manner by the executive branch. Normally, the leader of a country takes advice on matters from generals, intelligence figures, and others, in order to establish what is going on, what needs responding to, and what the necessary responses are, from which list of priorities, the leader is expected to select (wisely) courses of action going forward.

If that whole situation is ruined by the incompetence of a leader, then a military coup may occur, but heres the thing. During a military coup, the military take over the running of government. Politicians either get arrested or banished from the halls of power, unless the military selects figures known to them and known to be either a) not sociopaths, b) not stupid or c) none of the above, or in some circumstances d) all of the above, but basically the military's "bitch" for some reason, to operate the administration on their behalf. Alternatively, they simply force the governments administrative branch to operate without executive oversight for a period, while the military either cements its position within the leadership framework, or races to hold elections which will select a different, preferably competent leader.

However, there is no evidence of ANY such thing at the moment. There is no evidence to suggest that military figures have taken over responsibility for education, firefighting, policing, taxation, local zoning laws, civil engineering, or any of the other things that government does. All that is happening here, is that the military is telling the President "This is what we need to happen." and Trump is doing it. Now, thats not ideal, because the ideal scenario is that the leader knows well enough what he is doing, that he does not just blithely follow the instructions of a military personage, unless he knows that personage to be on the level, telling him the truth about matters, and also finds himself in agreement with that figure about what to do.

But, thats not what is happening here, of course. Trump, being the clueless halfwit, the tactical equivalent of the village idiot, cannot make a judgement about what courses of action are best, which those of us who have been paying attention, already knew from waaaaay before he ever ran for office. Therefore, he is in a position where all he can do, is take recommendations from military figures, and just churn out a nod and a smile.

Thats not a coup, thats just a side effect of having a President with all the leadership acumen of a baked potato.

I would be more stunned that mattis is part of a coup than I was when Trump won the election.

Remember the discussion about water boarding?

He disagreed with the president then I imagine he will continue to do so when he feels it is right.

A coup? Come on. A little Occam's razor, eh? What's more likely, that just about everyone that Trump personally hired has conspired to launch a coup against a sitting President or that Trump is just a clueless dolt? Exactly.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
If that whole situation is ruined by the incompetence of a leader, then a military coup may occur, but heres the thing. During a military coup, the military take over the running of government. Politicians either get arrested or banished from the halls of power, unless the military selects figures known to them and known to be either a) not sociopaths, b) not stupid or c) none of the above, or in some circumstances d) all of the above, but basically the military's "bitch" for some reason, to operate the administration on their behalf. Alternatively, they simply force the governments administrative branch to operate without executive oversight for a period, while the military either cements its position within the leadership framework, or races to hold elections which will select a different, preferably competent leader.

Perhaps coup is the wrong word then. The military doesn't have 100% control over the executive branch right now, but it does have a lot. It's choosing what Trump sees and hears, it's setting his agenda, it's choosing how his policies (the few he can EO) are getting implemented, and so on.

Right now Trump is a weak president, and the generals are doing all the work.

a reply to: Aazadan

But are they though?

Are you seriously telling me that generals are presiding over the decision making on civil matters?? I very much doubt they are even commenting on them. Are they commenting on the state of education, on the state of critical infrastructure? Are they preventing the President from learning of failures of police agencies and the intelligence services? Are they preventing him from finding out what budget he needs to deal with the hurricane situation?

No.

He is responsible for more than they are, and I sincerely doubt that they are doing as you suggest. IF they are however, that is a coup, but only if their reach extends beyond dealing with their branch of government. If they are only dealing with military matters, and telling the President what they need from him, then that is them doing their damned jobs. Furthermore, its beyond unreasonable to assume that Trumps apparent lack of information and drive, is a result of anything other than his incompetence. He is one of the most information resistant individuals that recent affairs have bought to the forefront of the international consciousness, after all.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
But are they though?

Are you seriously telling me that generals are presiding over the decision making on civil matters?? I very much doubt they are even commenting on them. Are they commenting on the state of education, on the state of critical infrastructure? Are they preventing the President from learning of failures of police agencies and the intelligence services? Are they preventing him from finding out what budget he needs to deal with the hurricane situation?

They're involved in the decisions on civil matters now. And Kelly is choosing what goes into Trumps briefings on various matters each day. Trump still has his phone and his TV, but all paper briefings are filtered through Kelly.

Nutshell,

No more new transies and Mattis is gonna figure out how to get the ones in there out.

Trump is letting him handle that part.

The only ones going against the prez are the left, not the generals.

a reply to: TrueBrit

True Brit you really are an asset to ATS. If it wasn't for you, Phage, and a small handful of others this site would have died a few years ago

Well, Kelly is Chief of Staff, it's his job to manage information flow so the President has time to do things other than read briefings and news all day. He's also retired, I don't think just having a background in the military should be enough to bar you from serving in the white house. I get it, it's very important to keep the administration in charge of the military and not the other way around, but OP's concerns seem overblown. Trump can fire him (like countless others have been fired before) whenever he wants, it's up to him to decide whether he trusts Kelly or not.

As far as Mattis goes, he's acting within the mandate given by Trump. It's not his fault that Trump jumped the gun and said trans where out, when there are due procedures to follow before things can be enacted.

It's pretty funny though, old generals and SJW's finding themselves on the same side like this.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Sorry, but flat feet can actually be a big problem. Could really slow a unit down if one of them has a bad case.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
I doubt it's a coup...

They just know they have a senile POTUS...


It has to be done.

That would be a coup. I'm not saying the military has the intention (right now) of permanently holding power. Only that they've essentially stepped in, said the emperor has no clothes, and have every intention of calling the shots until they 25 him, he's impeached, or he leaves office.

While I think this is a somewhat reactionary take, at the moment at least, I do think that they are definitely "handling" the President. Also, while we aren't there yet, if both sides become too entrenched in their opposition, which may very well happen, your scenario is a possibility.

a reply to: Aazadan

Its more likely that Trump is giving lip service to the masses while deferring to people in the know. Think of him as CEO making brash verbal statements, but having his CFO or Controller telling him he can't fund it.

Maybe tomorrow he will promise unicorns.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Never ending war for one. And for all the wrong reasons. You haven't noticed that?

Then the hijacking you are talking about is from the corporate oligarchy that we allowed ourselves to become. Trump can't and won't stop that.

Clearly this makes Mattis a traitor. Why would the armed services need to make a study, didn't Trump already make his decree? How could anyone think a committee is going to come up with a better/smarter conclusion/solution than Donald Trump?

DRAIN TEH SWAMP!!1

Git em Trump!

No one declares themselves transgender when they apply to any position, in the military or otherwise. Personally, I consider myself a transgender. I never did sex change and I never will. My sex is male. My gender is not. I never tell anyone I know I'm transgender. No one knows I'm transgender. I can apply to join the military and the military will never know I am transgender.