Is sin absolute or relative and is the Bible too soft on sin

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I think many people's idea of sin and their relationship to sin is not correctly interpreted. So many people wave their Bibles claiming to be the moral authority for God on Earth. People love to pretend to be superior over others. But many people hardly ever read the Bible or understand it. There is a Pew research poll that found evangelicals ranked only slightly higher than atheists in their knowledge of the New Testament and Jesus's teachings.

For example, consider the following. Here are 76 things banned in Leviticus (some of the things mentioned are crazy by today's standards of moral behavior):

leviticusbans.tumblr.com...

What is considered to be sin and what is not has been changing over time. Touching a pigskin football seems morally okay today. While slavery on the other hand, which used to be morally okay in the Bible is now NOT okay by today's standards.

Consider one of the most famous verses from the NT which starts at John 7:53. Pharisees bring a women before Jesus who had committed adultery. The Pharisees want to see if Jesus upholds the Mosaic law of Moses handed down from the OT were she must be stoned to death. The Pharisees want to see how Jesus would choose between honoring Mosaic law and his teaching of forgiveness. Jesus proclaims, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.". If I said this people who idol worship the Bible would say I am discounted ALL sins. So what is Jesus saying at this point? Is Jesus saying adultery is okay? Jesus then tells the women to go and sin no more.

I think people get way too hung up on what is a sin and what is not a sin. I think the message to be taken here is not what is a sin and what is not a sin. I don't think the message here is we are all sinners. I think the most important message here is for us not to live our lives with a callous disregard to morality. What is moral and what is not moral is not the main concern. I think the primary concern and message is our attitude about how our behaviors may or may not hurt other people. Adultery may or may not be a sin if a person's partner is aware of it going on and the other partner is consenting. I don't think it is up to us to pretend to speak for God by judging other people with regards to consensual behaviors.

I think the more interesting question is not one of forgiveness but one of absolution. During medieval times people would have to buy their absolution from the Church. I think this is the wrong approach for sin. I think the Bible is way too soft on sin and what you are supposed to do after you've sin. I think each of us is personally responsible for our own absolution. And getting our absolution does NOT come from the Bible, the Church, or from God. The only place we can seek and achieve absolution is from the people we've sinned against. I would argue a more stringent Bible would say the people we've sinned against decide and determine if we are to be saved or not. I don't think the Bible is strong enough in emphasizing personal responsibility with our relationship to other people and our community when it comes to sin and forgiveness.

Please do not respond to the OP by quoting just scripture. Please use your own words and try to think for yourself instead.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Touching a pigskin football

Not sure where you would get one. They are made out of cowhide.

But I get the idea. A lot of the religious laws had some basis for their existence when they were written, but not so much today.

Oh, and you mention evangelicals and Jesus, but the book of Leviticus is OT, a Jewish book.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Yeah but nah
God sees our hearts and motivations
People have sinned against me and I have condemned them, only to find out the reason after and understood and accepted their failure
God will judge, all knowing and all caring

Me, I am arrogant, prideful and flawed, others need a better judge than me

Love everyone

Now don't think Christian commands apply to everyone, they are commands to Christians, not everyone
You are just being silly in your understandings of christianity

Oh and as stated, you really need to understand the Jews have different laws to Christians
Confusing them is just dumb, real dumb

Using sunscreen to look at an eclipse dumb

God requires mercy not sacrifice .

There is a Pew research poll that found evangelicals ranked only slightly higher than atheists in their knowledge of the New Testament and Jesus's teachings. For example, consider the following. Here are 76 things banned in Leviticus (some of the things mentioned are crazy by today's standards of moral behavior):

So working off a pol on NT comparing Atheist and Evangelicals you move into the OT ...Looking at just the NT without context will leave both sets out in left field on many of the "understandings " looked at . Now throw the OT into the mix with the Levitical system in the mix and left field become some place far to the right .

Just as there are many layers to the Book there is a guiding theology that only becomes known after the cross . It was hidden before then but hints can be found . Too often we are given one, two, maybe three options when there is a altogether different way to understand the text ...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: dfnj2015

Yeah but nah
God sees our hearts and motivations
People have sinned against me and I have condemned them, only to find out the reason after and understood and accepted their failure
God will judge, all knowing and all caring

Me, I am arrogant, prideful and flawed, others need a better judge than me

Love everyone

Oh and as stated, you really need to understand the Jews have different laws to Christians
Confusing them is just dumb, real dumb

Don't use sunscreen to look at an eclipse dumb

It depends on the football:

Football. At least, the pure version of football, where you play with a pigskin. The modern synthetic footballs are ugly and slippery anyways. Leviticus 11:8, which is discussing pigs, reads "You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you."

You do realize an all-knowing God already knows all the choices you will make. Again, I believe, we have too many hangups on what is and what is not a sin. Do you honestly think an omnipotent God did not know exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about. Again, how we deal with our relationship to others is more important than the sin itself in my humble opinion.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Anything to do with morals is highly subjective and relative, you can only sin in your heart.

No human can absolve you either, because only God can judge you.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Since you can't put it into your own words then maybe you don't really understand what you think you know.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Really, plenty of assumptions there cowboy
You are guessing, based on ignorance and a very poor understanding of theology

I don't want to play anymore

a reply to: dfnj2015


Wait until You find out Adam had a wife before "Eve" and they were "equal" but when Adam(u) told Her "Iron My shirt and do the dishes" She split and ended up w/''Samael'' in the Bible™

"Noah" is a lot like Gilgamesh ...

You're also going to run into the Ones who will type "Those have been revised and what Whomever really meant was.. "blah, blah, blah..." And although this won't answer Your question, the reply is comforting to whomever is doing the defending. "Worship = War Ship"

"The Quorum™ " got together and used what 'they' wanted and discarded things they didn't like.. Notice there is NO angle on these things from a female perspective?? Now You know about Adam having a wife before "Eve" who was EQUAL and She got ERASED Isn't a BIG CURRENT TOPIC removing statues ergo 'History' ? The Quorum removed 'Lilith' and then She gets blamed for everything from then until the next scapegoat came along...

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Not everyone who believes what is moral is "subjective and relative" like you do. There are very few people I have found who openly say everything in the Bible is absolute truth even though that is what they think to be true. People worship their own dogma as if it were Gospel. The very idea of subjective and relative morality is unacceptable to certain classes of thinkers.

a reply to: JimNasium

A very thoughtful response. Nicely done.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Too bad you lack courage.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Since you can't put it into your own words then maybe you don't really understand what you think you know.

Seeing it doesn't really matter what I think or what you think then what God thinks should matter .Are we not called to be transformed by the renewing of our minds in Christ ?

a reply to: dfnj2015

As humans we have imperfect knowledge as to the person committing the harmful act and the person(s) on whom the harmful act is committed. To allow imperfect judgement to decide our absolution seems like a faulty formula to me.

I do agree that the ritual or sacrament of absolution is also imperfect. In order to achieve forgiveness, IMO, one must admit your wrongs to your Higher Power, to an objective 3rd party, and try to make amends to the harmed party if there is one and if such amends can be made. However, if the harmed party denies your advances, there's nothing left to do but leave it in the hands of your Higher Power.

This is how I've lived my life for the past 24 plus years and I find it a lot more satisfying than the way I lived for the 25 plus years prior to that.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I don't think the Bible is strong enough in emphasizing personal responsibility with our relationship to other people and our community when it comes to sin and forgiveness.

Here is a link to Deuteronomy 13. Doesn't sound soft on sin at all.

Some people who don't live in a Theocratic society think that they would like to live in a Theocratic society. In such a society one must kill the sinners or else die for not killing the sinner. Proximity to sin leads to death.

Here is a joke that I once heard: Warning!!! Profanity Ahead!!!

A preacher and a congregant were out duck hunting in a boat.
A duck flushed from the tulies.
The congregant lifted his shotgun and fired.
"God damn it, I missed" grumbled the hunter.

The preacher told him, "Don't use the Lord's name in vain.
Something bad will happen to you."

A few minutes later another duck flushed.
The hunter fired. "God damn it. Missed again"

The preacher said "That's twice. You better not do it again."

A third time, after a duck flushed, "God damn it. Missed again!"
The preacher started scooting away "That's it. You're going to get it!"

The sky filled with clouds. The air grew dark.
A bolt of lightening streaked down
and struck the preacher, killing him instantly.

Thundering and echoing from horizon to horizon was a voice:
"God damn it, missed again!"
-------------------------

That is why righteous, God fearing people must be the majority in politics, legislate morality, and severely punish lapses of their neighbors. It's a matter of self preservation.

But that is Old Testament. New Testament view is that good people live in a less than righteous world. They are never going to be the majority or the rulers. They will be killed unjustly. "They will achieve a better life."

I am sick to death listening to these religious nutters who all seem more interested in life after death. Rather than being concerned about life when they are alive. All stacking up brownie points in the hope that they will gain favour from the invisible spirit in the sky. All of their organisations are worth billions of dollar`s and they could end poverty and homelessness on earth in a blink of the eye. Instead all they do is cause division among the people and cause strife. Looking down on people who dont believe in their version of the gentle loving kind spirit in the sky. I wish that they would all hurry up and go to meet their maker. IT`S A SIN THAT THEY EXIST

a reply to: dfnj2015

In modern terms, 'sin' is choosing to against what you know is right in your heart.

Everybody has a soul, conscience, whatever. It knows, but it speaks quietly.

Unlike the world that shouts in your ear all day.

You have to be still though and listen to hear it.

a reply to: intrptr

Oh god I gave you a star [and I usually always disagree with your POV].

a reply to: butcherguy

originally footballs and basket balls were made of pigskin and many sill are.

a reply to: dfnj2015

God's grace through belief on his son Jesus, which is a gift by the way, is not a license to sin but absolute power not to sin. It gives the believer power over sin however men are in their flesh until they die or are redeemed alive and they still have three enemies against them their flesh, the world and Satan.