When is the Catholic Church Going to Allow Priests To Marry?

I ask this question because, the catholic priesthood is the only vocation that doesn't allow it's members to marry (nuns included). This seems right out of the dark ages. Back in the dark ages others weren't allowed to marry like teachers and doctors, etc...because they thought giving in to their mortal lusts would damage their abilities to do thier jobs properly?....that is an obvious belief that would make sense in the dark ages (even though it doesn't actually make sense)...but now, in modern times, catholic priests and nuns still can't marry. How does this make sense. And because of this, the priesthood is attracting all kinds of sexual deviants and homosexuals, some trying to hide from the truth (some gays are not happy being gay, etc.) and they hope hiding in the priesthood will somehow make the problem go away? But instead, their sexual frustrations come out in very bad ways such as molesting and raping altar boys. I live in Massachusetts which seems to be the pedophile priest capitol of the USA.

I know the Pope when he first took over the postion, discussed allowing priests to marry, then it quickly and quietly got squashed. Also, Pope John Paul I had some ideas for change which it appears got him killed.

Why is allowing priests to marry (like any mortal man should be allowed to) such a hot topic with the Vatican? Even Jesus was married!

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Zabilgy]

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Zabilgy]

I think because people that really are fanatic christians would not accept it...that is really really out of sens!!!!! That is something I don't understand! Do you think that gay people (when it was considered a sin) choose to be priest because they did not have to get married? Maybe it has something to do with that?
We would have to investigate it!

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by Zabilgy
I ask this question because, the catholic priesthood is the only vocation that doesn't allow it's members to marry (nuns included). This seems right out of the dark ages. [edit on 9-2-2005 by Zabilgy]

Jesus wasn't married, and this rule has been instituted immediately when he formed the Church - you should read the Bible carefully.
The rule has been institued to insure that priests handle ONLY affairs of the Holy Mass, evangelization etc. And it works. If there wasn't this rule, it wouldn't be like this and it still even is difficult sometimes, like with Priest Henry Jankowski or Priest Tadeusz Rydzyk, who care mostly for MONEY, so the Church will even have to cope with that as well. Also, the priests have to resign from something - it ws decided that they will resign from this.
This (I mean your idea) is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard, not only from the ethical point of view.


[edit on 9-2-2005 by AtheiX]

Originally posted by Zabilgy
Even Jesus was married!

This is not true, and most valid evidance proves your statement to be wrong. Only by using unfounded and speculative sources, seeking to build a case on assumptions to prove your suppositions, can you prove it. If you were in a court of law trying to prove it you would be laughed out of the court room. There is much more evidance to prove that the four Gospels are whole and true then any type of relationship that is other then pure agape love with Mary Magdalene (which there is no evidance she even was a prostitute) and Jesus

As far as the topic. The catholic church allows priest to be married if they were married before they took up the cloth.. most likely converting from another synod.

There are even some nunneries where the nuns peroform a cerimony to spiritually marry Jesus.

it would probly have to take a rather liberal Pope to change it.

[edit on 2/9/2005 by Jehosephat]

Just as a matter of interest I want to point out that

1) The Da Vinci code is pure fiction. The only hard proof of Jesus' existence were (a) The writings of the historian Flavius Josephus and (b) the Bible. Neither make reference to his marriage. How would leonardo da Vinci who lived many centuries later "know the truth of his marital status"
2) It is not only Catholic priests who can not get married, its also Buddhist monks.

No offense to any Christians, but from a sheer historical perspective on sexual taboos and morality Christianity was pro-abstinence, anti-marriage and bestowing the virtues of eunichhood from the get go.

Someone who cares to engage in these debates more than me can provide the actual scriptures, but Jesus said being a eunich is best, but if you must submit to carnal failings, it's better to marry than burn.

Well, that last part may have been Matthew. His writings laid the foundation for early Christianity and he was extremely pro-eunich. He also thought the world was about to end any day though, so take that into consideration.

But basically, Christianity took a long heralded Jewish tradition of celebrating physical love (Songs I think it is for example) and perverted it in their conversion of gentiles to meet what they saw as the dire need of Roman secular society to stop with the prostitution, adultery, homosexuality, abortion (even infanticide was legal in Rome).

I mean modern Hollywood has nothing on the Roman Empire! Of course, they fell after being saved though.

Then deadbeat Dad St. Augustine kicked the sexual devolution in high gear going back to Genesis to come up with "original sin" and all evil being related to sex. He left his wife and family and was basically Sainted for his realization that all failings come from these stupid old bodies we walk around in. Lo, bring on the Rapture now!

As to the "enlightened" reinterpretations of protestants that wanted to let clergy not only marry, but get divorces themselves... celebrating all things carnal BUT homosexuality....I don't know. They still have alot of hang ups.

Whatever. Like I said I don't want to debate which pile of crap smells sweeter.

This (I mean your idea) is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard, not only from the ethical point of view.

Atheixt, what's unethical? You think it's unethical for a priest to marry? I think it's unethical to not allow them to marry. We are all mortal on this planet and man and woman are supposed to procreate. Why are catholic priests and nuns the only ones not allowed to do this? Every other church allows their reverends/ministers to marry and they read the same bible. The Catholic church has always been good at misrepresenting what the bible says. And Jesus was a Jew, not a catholic and he was married to Mary Magdeline. At that time it was improper for a Rabbi not to marry, so why would Jesus be different?

I have read the bible many times and come to my own conclusions, not the conclusions religions try to thrust upon me. If there is anything in the bible that says holy men shouldn't marry, then every religion on the planet wouldn't allow it's holy men to marry...but, hmmmmm, only the catholic church has that clause....why is that? It's the same bible isn't it?

And Atheixt, what do you think of all the pedophile priests out there and the priests that are having sex with women in their congregations? Is that okay as long as they say they are sorry at confession?

Priests need to be allowed to be married, period!

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Zabilgy]

Jesus wasn't married, and this rule has been instituted immediately when he formed the Church - you should read the Bible carefully.

I should read the bible more carefully? Jesus, a Jew, formed the Catholic church? Where does it say that in the bible? That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. So every other Christian on this planet (the non-Catholics) are worshipping Jesus incorrectly because they are not Catholic? I should read the bible? YOU SHOULD READ THE BIBLE!

Priests and nuns are human being BEFORE anything else. That is not good for them to fight this. That is why priest have problems with sexuality, that is not sain!
What if Jesus was not married?!?!??! What does that change now? We are in 2005! What would it change in your life as a religious person that the priests is married! What will it change in your everyday life?
That"s why I always say that religions like that create chaos! That is why priest commit sexual abuse and god would rather married than to be unhappy like that! THEY ARE HUMANS like you and me!

I send them love, they need it!
Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by Zabilgy
If there is anything in the bible that says holy men shouldn't marry

Yes, gobs in the NT. But I sooooo don't want to be the one to find them for you. Please someone?

...then every religion on the planet wouldn't allow it's holy men to marry...but, hmmmmm, only the catholic church has that clause....why is that? It's the same bible isn't it?

Because the Catholic Church wrote the New Testament! Or at least was organized on it and is the only Church still operating even close to early Christianity.

But please don't make me defend Catholicism today. I haven't had enough coffee.

No offense to any Christians, but from a sheer historical perspective on sexual taboos and morality Christianity was pro-abstinence, anti-marriage and bestowing the virtues of eunichhood from the get go.

Rant...no offense, but Christians wanted mortal humans to have no sex? So, we were basically supposed to cause the genocide of our own human race? This makes sense to you? Men should become Eunichs and allow the human race to become extinct? This is God's plan? This is what Jesus was preaching? You are out of your mind!....no offense

Zabilgy: I hate to disagree with you but I don't think Rant is out of his mind, I just think that maybe too many other sources are inputting into his conclusions. I truly have never seen any biblical reference by jesus suggesting that being a eunuch ( by the way this is the correct spelling) is the preferred way to heaven or sainthood. Being a eunuch was not a desired state in Israel or in Egypt at the time (only slaves were castrated to work in the harems). Secondly the Coptic and Mandaean monotheistic religions existed before the catholic church, both drawing from the writings of John. Finally once again Buddhist priests are also celibate, but I guess those that want to Catholic bash won't respond to this statement. Marriage is a state of attachment, which in Buddhist terms is an undesired state.




[edit on 9-2-2005 by Mynaeris]

Because the Catholic Church wrote the New Testament!

The Catholic Church wrote the new testament? I thought it was written by Jesus's apostles? If the Catholic Church wrote the new testament (which I never heard of such a thing), then that would explain a lot of the bs in it. What the Catholic church did, if anything, was rewrite it to their own specifications.

Jesus' disciples, after he died, were Christians, not Catholics. The Catholic Church is a disgusting farce that came out of Christianity. It gives Christianity a bad name. The Catholic church is like the mafia of Christianity and the Pope is like the Don. Who is the Pope anyway? I thought the leader of the church should be God? Why is it the Catholic church is the only religion that has a King? Is this how Jesus wanted it? I don't think so!!

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Zabilgy]

I'm going to my catholic church soon as on account of Ash Wensday. I will look through the church libary and see what I can find. My catholic encypleida gave no real help just gave me lond 3 page deff of, holy orders, and preisthood. But by the end of the day I will have a doctrine answer.

YEA, the bible is plenty of things that are misunderstood. If SEX was a big sin and taboo and "not good" why would the creation would be made that way???? makes no sens! Abstience and sex-taboo is another bs that the roman church decided they saw in the bible. To gain control so that people at the time felt guilty of their natural sexual feelings.
SEX was invented by GOD so it's good. If it was not good, then the planet would be empty!
If sex is normal than priests and nuns CAN have sex 10 times a day if they want to! It's a pleasure that god gifted to us. It's a control that is made for thousands of years that sex is sinful....Can you now get that OUT of your beleifs??? that is why there are so many sexual disorders, because of the guilt and the accumulation of sexual pulsions.

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by Mynaeris
Zabilgy: I hate to disagree with you but I don't think Rant is out of his mind...

Not completey anyway.

Well this whole discussion already has several pages to it (from the other perspective) here: Real Christian Men Castrate Themselves

But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. (Matthew 19:11-12 KJV)

As to whether those are really the words of Jesus, or Matthew, or a bunch of people appointed 400 years later by Crazy Pagan Constantine when the modern NT came into being... who knows?

That's right. None of us.

As to the obvious insanity of a religion devoted to non-procreation, I have to agree with you Zabilgy. It's madness. But remember they didn't think we'd be here 2,000 years from then to discuss it. Revelations weighed heavy on the minds of the early apostles.

The End is Near and has been for 2,000 years. No, they were not concerned with continuing the human race one bit. In fact, quite obsessed with the opposite.

As for your contentions about Catholicsm being the root of all evil though, be careful what seeds you impune. Where did your fruit come from?


[edit on 9-2-2005 by RANT]

As for your contentions about Catholicsm being the root of all evil though, be careful what seeds you impune. Where did your fruit come from?

I never said it was the root of all evil, but I think it's the most evil of all the organized religions. I think it's disgusting that all the sexual abuse in the catholic church has gone on for so long and higher ranking members of the church just moved priests to new locations to try and hide the problem. Cardinal Law here in Massachusetts was guilty of knowing of these abuses and moving priests around and resigned and what happened to him? The Pope gave him a job at the Vatican?? What is up with that? What kind of signal does that send to members of the catholic church and to every human being on the planet?

And as far as the young lady that keeps poking her head in and mentioning that Buddhists monks don't marry either.....thank you for the input. They do that out of choice and out of their beliefs and aren't going around molesting young boys. And we were talking about Christians not Buddhists.

``

as i learned from a priest,
the priestly vows are his 'marriage' to the church-

the priest is celibate, because he is faithful to his 'bride' (the church) and 'marriage' commitment...

all those who complain, should not have choosen to take those priestly vows. perhaps they could do service for the church & their God in another
capacity....one which would not require such a high requirement for initiation.

Originally posted by Zabilgy
I ask this question because, the catholic priesthood is the only vocation that doesn't allow it's members to marry (nuns included). This seems right out of the dark ages.

In fact the rule is pre-dark ages. Heck, christianty is pre-dark ages also, so that be eliminated?

Back in the dark ages others weren't allowed to marry like teachers and doctors, etc...because they thought giving in to their mortal lusts would damage their abilities to do thier jobs properly?

As a rule, no I don't recall that occuring, but there was probably a perception that a single person was better at it than one with a family.

How does this make sense.

Why should it make sense? Does a virgin birth and removal of sins by dousing in water make sense? Does transubstantiation make sense?

And because of this, the priesthood is attracting all kinds of sexual deviants and homosexuals, some trying to hide from the truth (some gays are not happy being gay, etc.) and they hope hiding in the priesthood will somehow make the problem go away?

That doesn't make sense, why would a pedofile become a priest, rather than say, a day care worker?

But instead, their sexual frustrations come out in very bad ways

So a person that is sexually frustrated, rather than having sex with a woman, is going to abuse children? That hardly seems true.

I live in Massachusetts which seems to be the pedophile priest capitol of the USA.

Maybe its got more to do with massachusettes than the church.

I know the Pope when he first took over the postion, discussed allowing priests to marry, then it quickly and quietly got squashed.

Yeah, by the pope.

Why is allowing priests to marry (like any mortal man should be allowed to) such a hot topic with the Vatican? Even Jesus was married!

Demonstrate this.

Priests need to be allowed to be married, period!

Since you are not an authority in the RCC your opinion is pretty meaningless. Furthermore the state will never force any church to adopt anything like that.

Jesus, a Jew, formed the Catholic church? Where does it say that in the bible?

Jesus made peter the rock on which the church of jesus would be built. Peter was 'bishop' of rome, ipso facto, jesus established the Catholic and Apostolic Church. Does it matter if you agree? No.

So every other Christian on this planet (the non-Catholics) are worshipping Jesus incorrectly because they are not Catholic

No, because the RCC has promoted a ecumenical movement wherein the RCC is the continuation of the church of jesus but not strictly necessary for salvation.

YOU SHOULD READ THE BIBLE!

You should be well aware of the verses that the RCC uses to maintain its legitimacy and addressed them.

thought it was written by Jesus's apostles?

No, the NT was not written by the apostles. John, the writer of revelation, was not an apostle. Paul never met jesus. Various other books in the NT were not even claimed to have been written by apostles. Of the ones that are claimed to have been written by them, none are actual original documents, none exist before something like a hundred years after the time the events happened, several tht claim the same author are written in different styles, and some of those are even thought to have been written by people who spoke different native languages (but, for example, wrote it in greek).

What is up with that? What kind of signal does that send to members of the catholic church and to every human being on the planet?

He was not pressed with any charges also. Obviously, a lot of people just don't care.

They do that out of choice and out of their beliefs and aren't going around molesting young boys.

What preists have been forced into being preists? Demonstrate that there is no abuse amoung buddhist monks. If you do, then your rationale for the presithood attracting perverts falls apart.

The Catholic Church is a disgusting farce that came out of Christianity.

You are a digusting farce that disfigures christianity.

Why is it the Catholic church is the only religion that has a King?

What are you ignorant, or just stupid?

atheiX
This (I mean your idea) is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard, not only from the ethical point of view

Why is it unethical for preists to marry? Protestant ministers can marry.Jewish rabbis can marry. And, importantly, some preists are infact married. IF they are married before becomming a preist, they don't get a divorce, they stay married. No one claims that they aren't as competent.

amelia
That is why priest have problems with sexuality, that is not sain!

It does not follow. Sex is a sin for everyone in the RCC, except married couples. For the above to be true, single catholics would have to be on the verge of pedophilia. Also, why would an abstinent preist choose to molest a child, rather bang a female parishoner, or whore?

Because the Catholic Church wrote the New Testament

The pre-schismatic church was responsible for the new testament.

OH MY GOD Nydgan. Do you hear yourself????

I don't judge you but why are so defensive???? Why can't you accept that we are in the year 2005 now? Times have changed!
Why do you feel so unhappy in your heart. Your beleifs makes you mad, the madness is not good for you.
You have to respect and accept everybody's opinion....what if priest could get married? What would it change for YOU TODAY???? Life is short....trust yourself...(you beleive in christ in jesus right?) would jesus be mad at the priest who have sexual activities, would he spit on him like he was a whore? NO, he would understand and send him love....that is what a true christian have to accept. A true christian like you must forgive and respect. THEN WHAT IS RELIGION FOR????????????????

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx