3,700-year-old Babylonian tablet rewrites history of Trigonometry

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
I can't believe revisionist islamaphobes are still trying to deny muslims invented numbers and mathematics. (Sarcasm)

If ISIS had found that, they would have blowed it to smithereenies.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: Abysha

Sorry. Thought you had referred to the tablet as Babylonian.
I see you were only pointing out that they conquered the Sumerians.

No problem.

That entire region is holy to me. Too bad I wouldn't be welcomed there anytime soon.

It's fascinating to me, too.
I've collected several Sumerian pieces over the years and was fortunate to spend some time with Sitchin just before he passed.

a reply to: seasonal

As usual, a critical wet blanket over this appears on the horizon. Note the quote you gave:

"A 3,700-year-old clay tablet has proven that the Babylonians developed trigonometry 1,500 years before the Greeks and were using a sophisticated method of mathematics which could change how we calculate today. "

The discovery is in no way proof that the Babylonians developed trig. It simply means that they had the principles and probably used them. So we have lots of room for "alien astronauts" to be the givers of this marvelously complex system that cannot be settled with one tablet. It would take a whole library of clay tablets to progressive;y prove that the system was domestically grown. I doubt that will ever happen.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
I can't believe revisionist islamaphobes are still trying to deny muslims invented numbers and mathematics. (Sarcasm)

If ISIS had found that, they would have blowed it to smithereenies.

No she wouldn't.

a reply to: Aliensun

Of course it doesn't prove they developed it. But it does prove they had the knowledge and this is the earliest proof of tangible evidence yet.
So until earlier proof is found it is safe to say the Babylonians are the record holders.

a reply to: seasonal

Thanks for pointing out what I pointed out.

As we no longer believe that we are alone in the galaxy, we need not be so closed-minded as to fantasize that we, alone, are responsible for all of the mysteries that we keep discovering about ancient civilizations. The further back we discover feats of pure science and indications of technological engineering the more we should consider not only that we are not alone in the galaxy, but we never were.

History is the same as it always was. It was that someone gave the credit for discovering this to the wrong person. The new trig discovery shows that there was a much better system a thousand years before it was said to be invented.

Hipparchus probably was not trying to fool anyone, he probably was just writing down what he had learned from others. It is the people with big heads later on that gave the credit to him for inventing Trig.

a reply to: Aliensun

I agree with you, but I also hold the belief that human minds can effectively send and receive ideas to and from "other" eras, largely by happenstance.

What I am suggesting is that the mathematics used by these ancient peoples could have come from e.t.i. and/or garnered from knowledge that came about in a time ahead of theirs. Or, that the knowledge effectively came about through a sort of temporal causality loop where the "finding" of the mathematical principles was done so by people from many times, inadvertently working together.

Quantum phenomenon I presume. My guess is that something akin to the principle of resonance and quantum entanglement are important pieces to the puzzle.

Either way, fascinating find. What is now the middle east holds a lot of incredible history, filled with civilizations, like the ancient Maya, that seemed to be way ahead of their time.

a reply to: IAMTAT

If it's so much more accurate than Base 10...Why don't we use Base 60 today?

Because you would have to remember 60 symbols and the corresponding addition and multiplication table for all of them.

Try some calculation in hexadecimal (base 16) just for fun. 0x7A = 122

a reply to: pheonix358

Babylon was a later civilization than Egypt, it was most likely the other way around, if not, they arrived at independent inventions , both trying to solve similar problems.

There is something that really bothers me whenever such threads come up. For some reason people seem to have the idea that humans back then, 1 or 10 thousand years ago, must have been much more stupid then we are now, which could not be further from the truth. They did not have is our advanced accumulated knowledge. But you don't need that knowledge to derive basic logics and mathematics.

I am not at all surprised that the Babylonians have figured out trigonometry. I wouldn't be surprised if someone 10 or 20 thousand years ago would have achieved the same. All it would take is just spending some time thinking about it, and you would recognize the patterns, derive the relations.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: pheonix358

Babylon was a later civilization than Egypt, it was most likely the other way around, if not, they arrived at independent inventions , both trying to solve similar problems.

Hence we observe the current affection by US in both areas. Well, if we go by the book, US considers itself the New Egypt, thus it should protect the delta of Nile and obliterate in ancient hatred the descendants of Tigris & Euphrates. If we deny the old mysticism its only oil fishing left to mention. Is that all? Well... I don't think so.

a reply to: seasonal

The Greeks are still the champions of the equation.
It's one thing to have a 'similar' understanding and it's another to prove it with mathematics, that's the difference, so no the Babylonians didn't invent it. But they did set forth the basics of this, and to be honest, it's been known about for sometime. How else would they have built such large structures without it, or understand the cycles of planets and predict astronomical events?

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: seasonal

I agree but I can see another way. There maybe something we do not know and it could be a hidden secret.

Not if it involves building any large structure. Thats why the early ones are all pyramid shaped (piled up blocks).

One must use the Level, a Square and Plumb.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: seasonal

I agree but I can see another way. There maybe something we do not know and it could be a hidden secret.

Not if it involves building any large structure. Thats why the early ones are all pyramid shaped (piled up blocks).

One must use the Level, a Square and Plumb.

The old Finns and Italians here used to use a beer bottle as a level for putting in windows. It actually works, you drink it down to the label or ridge line then use that as the level mark. It was not the level that was off in most of the old houses, it was the amount of levels they had to make.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: IAMTAT
If it's so much more accurate than Base 10...Why don't we use Base 60 today?

We do, 60 minutes, 60 seconds, 12 hours in a day. Them nephilim had 12 fingers and toes ya know.

Yes, and interestingly enough, we use it in trigonometry.
360 degrees in a circle, 90 degrees in a right angle, etc.....

originally posted by: moebius

I am not at all surprised that the Babylonians have figured out trigonometry. I wouldn't be surprised if someone 10 or 20 thousand years ago would have achieved the same. All it would take is just spending some time thinking about it, and you would recognize the patterns, derive the relations.

I agree. Humans from Babylonia 3700 years ago, or from Egypt 5000 years ago, or even humans from 10000 years ago have virtually the same brains, the same intelligence, and the same capacity to figure things out as we do today.

It's a slap in the face to those ancient humans when some other people say "ancient aliens must have given them that knowledge". As you said, we humans today may have more accumulated knowledge, but just like humans today are capable of figuring out things on their own, so were ancient humans capable of figuring out things (such as trig) on their own -- without the help of aliens.

Nobody seems to question how Newton developed calculus on his own or how Edison figured out the best material for lightbulb filaments, or how Galileo (upon being the first to notice Jupiter's Moons) figured out that the Earth and other planets revolve around the Sun.

As you said, it is not surprising that ancient Babylonians -- being just as intelligent as we are today -- would be able to figure out Trig if they put their mind to it, especially if they had practical reasons (e.g., to aid their construction techniques) for figuring it out.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: seasonal

I agree but I can see another way. There maybe something we do not know and it could be a hidden secret.

Not if it involves building any large structure. Thats why the early ones are all pyramid shaped (piled up blocks).

One must use the Level, a Square and Plumb.

The old Finns and Italians here used to use a beer bottle as a level for putting in windows. It actually works, you drink it down to the label or ridge line then use that as the level mark. It was not the level that was off in most of the old houses, it was the amount of levels they had to make.

The Egyptians used water to level the pyramids. Before construction began, they made a small lake in the footprint of the pyramid, put a few inches of water in it, measuring the height all across the base of the pyramid.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: IAMTAT
If it's so much more accurate than Base 10...Why don't we use Base 60 today?

We do, 60 minutes, 60 seconds, 12 hours in a day. Them nephilim had 12 fingers and toes ya know.

Riiigth, I thought the earth turns once every 24 hours.

The reason they kept the day and night divided into 12 hours is its harder to fit any more numbers on a clock between the lines and still read it from a distance.

Or lines on a sundial in ancient times, whatever.

Just imagine the knowledge that was lost with the destruction of the Alexandria Library.

Many people scoff at the idea that we are a people with amnesia about the knowledge from antiquity, but it seems like every year, there is more and more absolute, concrete proof of this reality.