More On DU (Two Graphic Images Linked)

Originally posted by PeanutButterJellyTime
Has anyone else here actually handled DU?

I have.

I have never had a side effect from DU.

Good for you! In bulk, and properly coated, DU poses an acceptable level of risk. This is not so when it's airborne dust and is no longer coated with protective layer.

Originally posted by Seekerof
And to the "best of my knowledge", you are simply doing selective research. You want to make others aware of this issue by telling them to research the issue, and yet, you assert "to the best of my knowledge," the US is the only one who "continues" to use DU laced weaponry?

Apparently you missed the edit to my post seekerof. And honestly, ultimately, it doesn't make a damn who uses DU, the stuff needs to be banned, and we need to clean it up. Something we have already told the Iraqi people we aren't going to do.

Originally posted by PeanutButterJellyTime
Learn some more about chemistry and then make an educated decision for yourself before you go believing everything you read on the internet.

So anyone that worries about DU hasn't made an educated decision for themselves, right?

Note that nowhere does anything say EVERYONE gets adversely affected by DU. In fact, it says large quantities can be highly dangerous.

Now be logical for a moment. In Iraq, MASSIVE amounts of DU were used for nearly 13+ years. Given that, it's highly probable that because massive amounts of DU were used in Iraq for 13+ years, the babies in Iraq with these strange health anomalies have been directly affected by DU. Clear?

As for you, your survival doesn't surprise me at all. You have never had DU actually used as a weapon against you, correct?

I guessed as much.

[edit on 12-5-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Originally posted by Aelita
Good for you! In bulk, and properly coated, DU poses an acceptable level of risk. This is not so when it's airborne dust and is no longer coated with protective layer.

That's exactly what we're talking about. We're not talking about DU being properly coated, we're talking about DU when it is no longer properly coated and being used as weaponry. So I'm not sure what you or PBJ are trying to make a point of by mentioning a situation where it's not a risk.

Stick to the subject at hand everyone. We're talking about DU when it's used as a weapon, not when it's in stasis in storage.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by Aelita
Good for you! In bulk, and properly coated, DU poses an acceptable level of risk. This is not so when it's airborne dust and is no longer coated with protective layer.

That's exactly what we're talking about. We're not talking about DU being properly coated, we're talking about DU when it is no longer properly coated and being used as weaponry. So I'm not sure what you or PBJ are trying to make a point of by mentioning a situation where it's not a risk.

Stick to the subject at hand everyone. We're talking about DU when it's used as a weapon, not when it's in stasis in storage.

In addition, the DU has been known to be used as ballast in expensive high speed sailboats and special application aircraft, because it's very high density makes it so compact. So when handled properly, it's quite acceptable. When vaporized, it's not

Similiar ignorance is seen in a recent thread about Agent Orange.
People fail to see that dangerous toxins travel up the food chain, and are eventually, over time, ingested in great amounts.

Maybe the "its safe people" should be given three daily meals of DU and Agent Orange for 30 years, and then come back and tell us that there is no threat.

Originally posted by Aelita
In addition, the DU has been known to be used as ballast in expensive high speed sailboats and special application aircraft, because it's very high density makes it so compact. So when handled properly, it's quite acceptable. When vaporized, it's not

Again, that's exactly what the point of this thread is, taht when it is employed as weaponry, it vaporizes and causes all that terrible stuff the babies will die of.

A war crime in anyone's language.

We use it too, in APFSDS tank round penetrators. But don't worry though it's officially safe

www.mod.uk...

Many of our veterans would disagree - especially the engineers who cleaned up the Basra Road after the '91 war (the ones still alive that is)

A slightly more balanced view:

www.guardian.co.uk...

DU is an evil done in our name - I'm sure history will condemn us for it

DU is dangerous in quantities that are impossible to breathe in. It causes heavy metal poisoning, like lead does, if you ingest large quantities of it. DU is not a radiation hazard. The longer the half life, the less radioactive a substance is. If I hand you an artillery shell made out of DU, in 4.5 billion years half of it will still be there. That is not very radioactive. It's very stable. The radioactive decay of gold is much higher than that of DU and yet people don't get cancer from gold jewelry.

People hear depleted uranium and instantly think dirty bombs, nuclear weapons, and massive doses of radiation. That's just not true. DU is used because it is so dense it can penetrate armor plating.

Whatever is happening to those children is appalling, but I very seriously doubt DU is causing it. DU was used in dental porcelain for dentures and bridges. It's been used for 2000 years to give glass a yellow color. I think it's a mere coincidence that those things are happening to children in an area where DU has been used historically. There could be any number of factors that caused that. Malnutrition, poor water supplies, and lack of medical supplies all come to the top of my mind.

At this stage to correlate those deformations to DU is the same as me saying I have a headache because it's cloudy outside. I have a headache today. It's cloudy outside today. Therefore my headache is a result of it being cloudy outside. Right?

Originally posted by PeanutButterJellyTime
DU is not a radiation hazard.

I stopped reading your post right there. If you are going to contribute to this thread, for god's sake, at least humor us a little and do some research. I have provided a wealth of documents and other information here, for that purpose. Yes DU is a radiation hazard. Yes it can particulate and can be breathed in to your lung tissue. I'm sorry man, your entire post is complete bunk.

Originally posted by PeanutButterJellyTime
People hear depleted uranium and instantly think dirty bombs, nuclear weapons, and massive doses of radiation. That's just not true. DU is used because it is so dense it can penetrate armor plating.

So, the ends justify the means? Because it can penetrate armor so well, we should keep using it despite the obvious lethality of the material?

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by PeanutButterJellyTime
DU is not a radiation hazard.

I stopped reading your post right there. If you are going to contribute to this thread, for god's sake, at least humor us a little and do some research. I have provided a wealth of documents and other information here, for that purpose. Yes DU is a radiation hazard. Yes it can particulate and can be breathed in to your lung tissue. I'm sorry man, your entire post is complete bunk.

There may be some difficulty for persons seeking information solely on the subject ‘Depleted Uranium’ vs. ‘Depleted Uranium Munitions’. Depleted uranium (DU) does have many, many uses and applications which are not harmful. Shielding in MRI machines, radiation shielding, armor, counterbalances on airplanes are just some examples or true depleted uranium. Findings on that specific topic are generally congruent with ‘PeanutButterJellyTime’s statements.

Depleted uranium munitions are another entirely different family of classification, ‘depleted uranium’ is a misnomer (and rather deceiving) when used in conjunction as a description of munitions applications. Ordnance, ammunition and such which employ the use of the added ‘depleted uranium’ to accentuate and enhance performance were also once known as ‘fissionable material enhanced’ munitions (FME) which also a huge misnomer. As a family the DU or FME enhanced munitions are in fact ‘Nuclear Waste Munitions’ and employ the use of other substances deemed currently as ‘Spiked DU’ which is extremely illegal (against all treaties and conventions not to mention the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 and the Nuclear Non-proliferation Act of 1978) and very, very lethal and non discretionary beyond the initial use once expended.

The prolific use of these enhancements should be pressed into curtailment, not just by the US, all nations which employ the use of ‘DU’ enhanced weaponry.


The International Legality of Depleted Uranium Weapons (Link)
Spiked DU (Link)



.

Finally, somebody is introducing a bill that will help to deal with this crisis, just a guess but watch this bill shrivel up and die pretty quick the cost of cleaning up DU is something that has already been studied, and according to a top ranking US General, we have no plans to clean up DU in Iraq. Also as I have alread mentioned in this post, to acknowlege the dangers of DU is to open a whole new can of American Hypocrisy to the rest of the world. One can only hope pride will step aside long enough to at least make some kind of effort to clean this crap up over there. Deformed babies is not a nice legacy to leave behind to a people you "freed" from tyranny.

www.iconoclast-texas.com...
Depleted Uranium Bill Introduced into Congress
The Lone Star Iconoclast

01 June Issue

Washington, DC - Congressman Jim McDermott (D-WA), a medical doctor, on May 17 introduced legislation with 21 original co-sponsors in the House of Representatives that calls for medical and scientific studies on the health and environmental impacts from the U.S. Military's use of depleted uranium (DU) munitions in combat zones, including Iraq. The McDermott bill also calls for cleanup and mitigation of sites in the U.S. contaminated by DU.

"The need is urgent and imperative for full, fair and impartial studies," McDermott said. "We may be endangering the health and lives of U.S. soldiers and Iraqi civilians. All we've gotten so far from the Pentagon are assurances. We need facts backed by science. We don't have that today."

Because of its density, the military uses DU as a protective shield around tanks, and in munitions like armor piercing bullets and tank shells. DU tends to spontaneously ignite upon impact, disintegrating into a micro-fine residue that hangs suspended in the air where it can be inhaled and falls to the ground to leach into the soil.

DU is a by-product of the uranium enrichment process; it is chemically toxic. and DU has low-level radioactivity. About 300 metric tons of DU munitions were fired during the first Gulf War, and about half that amount has been used to date in the Iraq War.

"I've been concerned about DU since veterans of the first Gulf War began to experience unexplained illnesses, commonly called 'Gulf War Syndrome' that remain mysterious," McDermott said.

Realmedia file video regarding DU featuring Rokke himself. Great stuff if your interested. This guy isn't some kook, he's the man Uncle Sam hired to study DU. Well worth watching. Nevermind the soundtrack lol.

images.indymedia.org...

Some quotes for you dial up ATS'ers...

"anybody that wrote about it, the pentagon would come down on them like a ton of bricks."
"To clean it up would cost about 200 billion dollars"
"Depleted Uranium Casualties..."
"Find Doug Rokke and tell him to clean up the DU mess..."
"One Geiger Counter to Clean up the mess..."
"The oxides that are formed are so small, so fine that they are going to create a nightmare..."
"We were going to shoot up Somalia with DU..."
"The health and environmenatl effects have been known since 1943."
"In violation of the International Environmental Protection Act"
"In 1943, a letter was sent to General Leslie Groves, commander of the Manhattan Project, telling him to fine grind, to prepare uranium and radioactive materials to contaminate air water and soil to stop the war in europe and in the far east. Deliberate use of radioactive materials to contaminate air water and soil... It's all here, all in the document..."

Best quote of all...
"They told me to lie."

Suprise, Brown and Root shows up in yet another War Profiteering Scandal.

Jesus...

Has anybody else watched the video yet? Would be interested in hearing some reactions...

i tried to watch it but it stalled about 7 min in. i will have to try again later.

If DU was so harmful there would be all kinds of PPE (personal protective equipment) required to handle it. When I was in the Navy I had to wear rubber gloves, an apron, and a face mask to use isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. If I didn't have all that stuff on when I was using alcohol to clean the heads of tape drives I would be sent to Captains Mast (equal to being arested for a misdemenor). Handling the Phallanx CIWS ammunition, which is DU projectiles, only requires work gloves. If DU is so dangerous, why does the navy go to rediculous lengths to protect me from rubbing alcohol, but not from DU? It just doesn't make sense.

And Twiggy, radioactivity is inversely proportional to half life. That's 7th grade science. Radioactivity is the decay of an object into alpha, beta, and gamma particles. When an object is highly radioactive it decays and releases those particles very fast. An object that is highly radioactive will have a short half life because as it releases all those radioactive particles it gets 'used up'. DU has a half life that is the same as the age of the Earth, 4.5 billion years. DU doesn't decay quickly and therefore isn't very radioactive. As I stated above, gold is more radioactive than DU and carbon is much more radioactive. Your hand is more radioactive than DU. That is simple scientific fact.

DU doesn't turn into dust on impact either. Think of it this way. If you scratch a piece of glass with a diamond, the diamond will cut into the glass. As the glass is scratched, it will release glass 'dust'. The diamond doen't turn into dust because it is harder than the glass. The same is true of DU penetrating tank armor. The steel of the tank is softer than DU and the steel is turned into dust, not the DU.

Wow man, where have you been for 40 years?

[edit on 31-5-2005 by twitchy]

I've posted what I've got. I'll rehash it for you:

1. DU is not radioactive- It's half life of 4.5 billion years means it is not radioactive.

2. Handling Precautions- There are no special handling precautions for DU, but there are for isopropyl alcohol, something all of us have in our homes.

3. I handled it for six years- I handled DU for six years with no special precautions and suffered no consequences. I have two perfectly healthy children, one born when I was actively handling DU and one born two years after I last touched the stuff.

4. DU has many uses, including dentistry- Would dentists really be putting this stuff in your mouth as fillings and bridges if it was hazardous or radioactive?

Twitchy, sorry I got your screen name wrong in the post above. This is a debate about DU, not a personal attack. While I disagree with your veiwpoint, I want you to know it's not personal and I respect you as a person. Unlike a lot of people around here I can differentiate between the two.

I see you edited your post while I was typing my reply. I fail to see the link between a chemical defoilant and an element of the periodic table. Please elaborate.