I don't Recall the Left Denouncing Hate Crimes from Leftwing Groups...

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Except that the majority of people who are pro-life do not call for the deaths of doctors and do not support the actions of the crazies that do murder anyone... BTW, derailing the topic much?...

Nor do the millions of people who have participated in BLM-related activities. It's "derailing" when people disagree with you?

This is correct.

I think that most of the people supporting BLM are not advocating violence, although there are a significant portion that do (at least towrads police).

However, it is entirely reasonable to support BLM and be against violence.

Now there is still a lot of very racist things in BLM, and I am curious when the good BLM people hear these racist things or chants of violence towards police, they still hang around.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Some of you are simply intentional liars.

BLM is not a homogenous organization. In fact, it's not an "organization" except in the most general sense. It's ridiculous to argue that every individual who holds up a sign, or joins a protest for "Black Lives Matter" is also calling for the death of law enforcement or of "White people." So many of you just make these vapid, all-inclusive statements that are ridiculous.

The intention of BLM is to oppose the wanton killing of Black Americans by law enforcement. So many of you are glad to overlook real reports of police brutality and "bad shootings" ... and yet, EVERY SINGLE TIME that a "thug" crosses the line, you want to hold EVERY SINGLE BLACK AMERICAN responsible.

Hypocrites and liars.

I listened to BLM in Boston the other day. I heard about the extinction of white people, the fact that blacks were in the US first and needed to have a revolution to take back the country, the fact that the wealthy, the police, and Trump and his supporters were all white supremacists and fighting them is a life and death matter, etc.

I also heard the crowd cheer wildly as this all was being said.

Why would they be there cheering if they didn't believe this?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: Kromlech

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: Kromlech

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: Kromlech

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Supporting BLM is not the same thing as supporting violence and murder.
That is like saying that supporting pro-life group is the same thing as supporting volence and murder when some guys shot up Planned Parenthood clinics.

Supporting them supports their violent causes. It's either with them, or against them.

Do you support pro-life group?

BLM is more of a threat than "pro-lifers." A drop in the bucket compared to DAILY BLM violence.

Sure it has nothing to do with the gang and drug dealing violence? Surely you realize that many BLM members denounced the violence over and over again, right?
Let me ask you a question I have asked the OP. Are you against the police brutality against the black people?

"Brutality" according to WHO'S standards? Excessive force is obviously needed sometimes with defiant and combatant suspects -- be it black or white. As far as "cold-blooded brutality," like shot in the head point blank while in hand cuffs? Of course not.

Two words: Rodney King.

Reginald denny.

And sure there is a problem with black and police.

The problem is its very complicated.

First, the most comprehensive study done by a black man at harvard actually showed that unarmed white men were more likely to be shot than black men.

Then there is the fact that black people are around 13% of the population, and yet are responsible for around 45% of all violent crime.

And the overwhelming majority of aall black people are great people that are just regular americans.

So ost of this violence is coming from a few small communities in inner cities.

This means that cops are more likely to have high intensity ecounters and violent altercations with these commiunities.

Does this mean the cops are totally off the hook? Of course not. We should carefully scrutinize them too, and punish those that committ crimes.

But the people of BLM and other groups that constantly chant "F the police" or suggest violence against them are not helping the situation.

originally posted by: Grambler
But the people of BLM and other groups that constantly chant "F the police" or suggest violence against them are not helping the situation.

That goes way back, not just BLM. Check out Body Count's(Ice T band) first cd. Approx early 90's. Loaded with this stuff.

ETA:

1992 debut. Check youtube for a tune called Cop Killer. Language too bad to post here. And check the audience. More white folks there than black.

originally posted by: buster2010
The op's recollection is faulty many people on the left call out hate groups. Here is a book of left wing hate groups written by a Democrat.
Left Wing Hate Groups

You are certainly correct that many on the left do denounce left wing violence.

I believe that many here on ATS that would identify as left wing have firmly denounced violence.

But what you posted is a good read; it shows how the Southern Poverty Law Center is terribly biased and often labels right wing groups as hateful that shouldn't be, and gives left wing groups a pass.

Some quotes from this.

As is typical of organizations on the Left, SPLC is ever-prepared to label its political and ideological adversaries as purveyors of “hate” and “intolerance.”

Oh and the author doesn't have a high opinion of BLM.

It
is committed to violent deeds as well as words, particularly in the case of white police officers. Demonstrators at BLM events routinely taunt, direct obscenities at, and sometimes attack uniformed police officers. They have celebrated in the streets after a police officer has been killed.

...

At all BLM events, demonstrators invoke the organization’s patron saint—the Marxist revolutionary, former Black Panther, convicted cop-killer, and longtime fugitive Assata Shakur

...

Another figure greatly admired by BLM is Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin, formerly known as H. Rap Brown, who in the 1960s was renowned for threatening that blacks would “burn America down,” and for urging blacks to murder “honkies.” In the spring of 2000, Al-Amin shot two law-enforcement officers in downtown Atlanta, killing one of them

So your left wing source agrees, BLM is a hate group.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Grambler
But the people of BLM and other groups that constantly chant "F the police" or suggest violence against them are not helping the situation.

That goes way back, not just BLM. Check out Body Count's(Ice T band) first cd. Approx early 90's. Loaded with this stuff.

I remember getting grounded for like two months when I was 13 when my parents found my body count cassette.

Yes you are right, but that doesn't mean those chanting this aren't hateful and to be called out on it.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I will say I think that you do have a point with the OP.

But by no means think that no one on the left denounces violence; many do.

The question is how do the left leaning politicians and media deal with this violence.

It seems to me that often left wing violence is denounced by them, but in the context of denouncing ALL violence.

However, when a right wing person kills someone, they demand that everyone ONLY call out the right. Hence when trump blamed both sides, they flipped out at the fact that he would dare do this.

Here is a thread I did on it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Some of you are simply intentional liars.

BLM is not a homogenous organization. In fact, it's not an "organization" except in the most general sense. It's ridiculous to argue that every individual who holds up a sign, or joins a protest for "Black Lives Matter" is also calling for the death of law enforcement or of "White people." So many of you just make these vapid, all-inclusive statements that are ridiculous.

The intention of BLM is to oppose the wanton killing of Black Americans by law enforcement. So many of you are glad to overlook real reports of police brutality and "bad shootings" ... and yet, EVERY SINGLE TIME that a "thug" crosses the line, you want to hold EVERY SINGLE BLACK AMERICAN responsible.

Hypocrites and liars.

I listened to BLM in Boston the other day. I heard about the extinction of white people, the fact that blacks were in the US first and needed to have a revolution to take back the country, the fact that the wealthy, the police, and Trump and his supporters were all white supremacists and fighting them is a life and death matter, etc.

I also heard the crowd cheer wildly as this all was being said.

Why would they be there cheering if they didn't believe this?

You were in Boston?

You listened to BLM, or a couple of people presenting themselves as BLM?

Gee, let's see ... I'm going to go with they were agitators hired by the Koch brothers as were those you heard cheering.

I mean, isn't that the standard apology for White Supremacists? Except that, of course, the right-wing's devil is George Soros not the Koch Brothers?

Oh, wait, that's right ... that's BS. I don't know what you heard, who you heard speaking, what their actual words were or anything else. As I said, were you there in person, or are you listening to a recording?

If a recording share the source and I'll give you an opinion on it.

Barring that, if you're looking for Black Nationalism and advocating violence ... look no further than the Nation of Islam and its offshoots.

That's a much better example than "BLM."

a reply to: Grambler

Advocating violence toward law enforcement in general? Or toward those rogue cops who shoot Black men first and ask questions later?

Neither is right; one is more comprehensible than the other, at least as an expression of feeling.

a reply to: Gryphon66

It was a live stream. I don't know if its up on video yet.

But go to the thread about the rally, everyone was commenting on exactly was being said.

My point is the large crowd there cheered while these vile things were being said.

Would you stand and cheer at someone saying these things?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Advocating violence toward law enforcement in general? Or toward those rogue cops who shoot Black men first and ask questions later?

Neither is right; one is more comprehensible than the other, at least as an expression of feeling.

They called at cops and Trump "white supremacists" and advocated violence towards them.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Gryphon66

It was a live stream. I don't know if its up on video yet.

But go to the thread about the rally, everyone was commenting on exactly was being said.

My point is the large crowd there cheered while these vile things were being said.

Would you stand and cheer at someone saying these things?

Pretty apt:

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Gryphon66

It was a live stream. I don't know if its up on video yet.

But go to the thread about the rally, everyone was commenting on exactly was being said.

My point is the large crowd there cheered while these vile things were being said.

Would you stand and cheer at someone saying these things?

No, to answer your rhetorical "question" I would not cheer on any sort of nationalism, race-based or otherwise, nor do I advocate genocide nor violence used for political purposes.

Again, to comment specifically I'd have to have specific information.

I believe you know that it is my contention that the American public is being "herded" toward one of two extremes.

And again, if you're looking for the "Black version" of White Supremacy, look no further than the Nation of Islam ... they've been at it for 40 years or more.

Until 2010, the DNC continued to put a former Grand Kleagle in a federal level representative position. The same man was Hillary Clinton's "mentor":

www.newsweek.com...

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Until 2010, the DNC continued to put a former Grand Kleagle in a federal level representative position. The same man was Hillary Clinton's "mentor":

www.newsweek.com...

Yeah. (Disappointed to see this sort of misrepresentation from you Texan.)

WASHINGTON, DC – The NAACP is saddened by the passing of United States Senator Robert Byrd. Byrd, the longest serving member of congress was first elected to the U.S. House from in 1952 and was elected Senator in 1958. Byrd passed away this morning at the age of 92.

“Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation,” stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. “Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country.

NAACP mourns Byrd's death - The Hill

a reply to: Grambler

Then there is the fact that black people are around 13% of the population, and yet are responsible for around 45% of all violent crime.

Caught & charged with 45%...
Not "responsible" for 45%...

You are not including all the crimes that go unsolved...
Or the innocent people who have been locked up...

It could never be truly gauged which race is responsible for "most" crime in any country...


& its nothing more than a racist statistic anyways, seeing as colour of skin has nothing to do with propensity to commit a crime...

That's not to say you're racist Grambler, far from it... but I do believe you have been duped into using that statistic by hose who have a nefarious agenda.


I mean, what other point would people be trying to make by saying "black people are responsible for most of the violent crimes committed"...
Think about it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Gryphon66

It was a live stream. I don't know if its up on video yet.

But go to the thread about the rally, everyone was commenting on exactly was being said.

My point is the large crowd there cheered while these vile things were being said.

Would you stand and cheer at someone saying these things?

No, to answer your rhetorical "question" I would not cheer on any sort of nationalism, race-based or otherwise, nor do I advocate genocide nor violence used for political purposes.

Again, to comment specifically I'd have to have specific information.

I believe you know that it is my contention that the American public is being "herded" toward one of two extremes.

And again, if you're looking for the "Black version" of White Supremacy, look no further than the Nation of Islam ... they've been at it for 40 years or more.

I am with you on this.

And I have no love for neo nazis, kkk etc.

But I will defend both their and the nation of Islam and BLM or whoevers right to say what they want.

The difference is there were no nazis at the free speech rally, yet 40,000 people protested, many attacking and surrounding rally goers, and then having many in the media, cal this a victory of love over hate.

Show me the inverse; where conservatives showed up to a permitted rally in mass by a left leaning group, and accused them of all being racist and attacked people who wanted to go to that rally.

The only thing I can even think of close to it was the a-holes Friday at Charlottesville that surrounded those students.

That is still much different, but it was universally condemned.

But Boston was considered a victory against hate.

Its orwellian.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: Grambler

Then there is the fact that black people are around 13% of the population, and yet are responsible for around 45% of all violent crime.

Caught & charged with 45%...
Not "responsible" for 45%...

You are not including all the crimes that go unsolved...
Or the innocent people who have been locked up...

It could never be truly gauged which race is responsible for "most" crime in any country...


& its nothing more than a racist statistic anyways, seeing as colour of skin has nothing to do with propensity to commit a crime...

That's not to say you're racist Grambler, far from it... but I do believe you have been duped into using that statistic by hose who have a nefarious agenda.


I mean, what other point would people be trying to make by saying "black people are responsible for most of the violent crimes committed"...
Think about it.

Ok, look at ot this way.

The truth is races tend to attack their own far more than other races.

Most whites are killed by whites, most black by blacks, most hispanics by hispanics.

I am sure we can agree on this.

Now almost every year almost half of all homicide victims are black.

Blacks in the United States are disproportionately affected by homicide. For the year 2011, blacks represented 13 percent of the nation’s population, yet accounted for 50 percent of all homicide victims.

www.vpc.org...

So I don't believe that the FBI numbers are just because black get arrested or blamed for homicides they don't committ at incredible rates.

These numbers are not being used by me for racist reasons.

In fact quite the opposite; I am saying that most blacks have nothing to do with these stats. The numbers are skewed because in some predominantly black communities an overwhelming amount of this violence occurs.

I only bring up these stats to show how incredibly violent these areas are, and that the police have to go in to these communities, which may lead to an increase in violent altercations with black people.

Again, studies show white unarmed people are more likely to be shot by police than blacks.

Now does any of this excuse when cops act in a bad or racist manner, hell no!

But I believe that we should look at the whole picture instead of just claiming cops are systemically anti black.

a reply to: Grambler

But that's just it Grambler ... none of us has the right to "say anything they want."

None of us do. None of us have ever had it.

The Constitutional right to freedom of speech is fundamental but it guards against GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION in freedom of expression. As long as that speech is not damaging, harassing, incitement, etc. it is free, that is, people can say what they want and those who hear can respond.

You and others here keep making wild general statements about the event in Boston. Do you really think that those 40,000 counter-protesters were ALL there for the same reason? All had the same motivation, beliefs, etc?

What portion of those people were violent, eh? Do you have that number? Interestingly, I do.

Here's some actual facts from Police Commissioner Evans:

Boston Police Commissioner William Evans said there were 27 arrests, primarily for disorderly conduct. He said no officers or protesters were injured and there was no property damage. Evans added that three individuals were wearing ballistics vests, one of whom was later found to be armed. It is unclear if those three are among the arrests.

Evans said there were three groups of people in attendance: attendees of the “free speech” rally, counter protesters, and a small group of people who showed up to cause trouble.

a reply to: Grambler

Oh my god, really?

I wonder why more White people get shot ... could it be because there are seven or eight times as many White people as Black in the United States?

How many complaints do you hear from the "Black community" over police dealing with violent criminals ... and how many do you hear from them on Cops shooting unarmed Black kids and men?

Don't pretend like it's just a matter of statistics ... I choose to believe you know better than that.