Autistic man convicted of murder despite not actually doing anything

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: redhorse

I don't know what part the person with autism played...

Well, I don't either. But I can tell you that it is entirely possible to get into a car with someone and have things go terribly sideways and you had no idea that it was going to go that way. If my presence within the vicinity, or in the vehicle is all that was required... well, I'd be in prison.

Yes, you would. The moral of the story is be real careful who's car you get into, what the people in the car are planning for the evening and in general what they are holding.

If you get in a car and happen to be in it when somebody 'suddenly' shoots out the window, thats pretty stupid on your part to not know that person well enough to know they were carrying a firearm and or capable of such an act.

I meant it happens, especially around more dangerous neighbor hoods and or gangs and or drug abuse.

On the other hand, say you are in a car and somebody is shooting at you and you defend yourself, then thats legal.

Listen, I was a junkie. Based upon your response I don't think you have the first clue what it's like to live in that situation. There are cultural and social pressures and givens that are complex, highly situational and if you haven't seen it or lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I have never been, even in the midst of a raging methamphetamine addiction, nor am I currently, at 18 year sober, stupid.

a reply to: redhorse

Addicts aren't 'stupid'. They aren't in the drivers seat though, more along for the ride.

I know, I was there too.

a reply to: intrptr

I was president of the Outlaws motorcycle club for many years. With 2,500 members at that time it would be impossible to know what every one is up to.

originally posted by: slider1982

originally posted by: trollz

Alex Henry, who is serving a 19-year prison sentence for murder despite never touching the weapon used

convicted of murder under the joint enterprise law after his friend, Cameron Ferguson, then 19, fatally stabbed Taqui Khezihi, 21

no one present during the fight knew that there had been a stabbing

Source
Here we have a perfect example of how powers given to law enforcement or government can get way out of hand.
An autistic man named Alex Henry was out one day with friends when some sort of altercation broke out between several people. Unbeknownst to him (and everyone present), his friend stabbed someone during the scuffle who later died of his injuries. His friend fully confessed to the murder, but Alex Henry was also arrested, charged, and sentenced to prison for that very murder that he had no part in... Simply because his friend did it and he happened to be in the vicinity of the crime.

Imagine you're out with friends, and one of your friends suddenly stabs or shoots someone, gets arrested, and admits to doing it. The police arrest you, you're found guilty of murder, and you're sentenced to life in prison - because you happened to be there. This is exactly what the police and courts are allowed to do under the joint enterprise law.

Totally absurd,

And yet another reason why I am taking myself out of society in general, zero common sense seems to be the order of the day!!!!.. So now along with a lawyer present when I have sex with a women in case I am accused of rape is not bad enough I cannot be around friends in case I am roped into some BS that I had no part of..

No wonder my phone book is staggeringly small and will shrink further..


RA

So living alone and in fear is better?

Methinks you taking all this much too far.

a reply to: ericendtimes

Think the jury would buy that?

Kudos to anyone held that rank in that 'club', without getting killed or caught.

My grandfather was a soldier in the German army during both WWI and II, was a card carrying member of the Nazi Party, stationed in eastern Poland during WWII where all the evil-est s*** went down.

He walked home to germany, survived the volkssturm defending Berlin during the Soviet attack.

Got killed in a fender bender car wreck a few years later. I'm not proud of that side of my family history.

a reply to: nightbringr

So living alone and in fear is better?

No, just be sure who your friends are and trust no-one.

No-one.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: redhorse

Addicts aren't 'stupid'. They aren't in the drivers seat though, more along for the ride.

I know, I was there too.

So, lemme get this straight.

You think that because a person isn't careful enough about who they get into a car with, or who they may be in proximity to that they should go to prison for being near someone that decides to get violent?

There is nothing about that concept that is just. I will vehemently stand by the assertion that it is an immoral application of the law even in the best of circumstances.

And in the U.S. where prison is a for-profit industry that's just begging for trouble.

originally posted by: trollz

Alex Henry, who is serving a 19-year prison sentence for murder despite never touching the weapon used

convicted of murder under the joint enterprise law after his friend, Cameron Ferguson, then 19, fatally stabbed Taqui Khezihi, 21

no one present during the fight knew that there had been a stabbing

Source
Here we have a perfect example of how powers given to law enforcement or government can get way out of hand.
An autistic man named Alex Henry was out one day with friends when some sort of altercation broke out between several people. Unbeknownst to him (and everyone present), his friend stabbed someone during the scuffle who later died of his injuries. His friend fully confessed to the murder, but Alex Henry was also arrested, charged, and sentenced to prison for that very murder that he had no part in... Simply because his friend did it and he happened to be in the vicinity of the crime.

Imagine you're out with friends, and one of your friends suddenly stabs or shoots someone, gets arrested, and admits to doing it. The police arrest you, you're found guilty of murder, and you're sentenced to life in prison - because you happened to be there. This is exactly what the police and courts are allowed to do under the joint enterprise law.

I like how you play up the autism angle and completely ignore pertinent details like the fact that Alex Henry actively participated in the fight. I don't think he belongs in prison for 19 years so don't think I'm supporting the law that resulted in him being convicted on a murder charge. But he sure as hell wasnt the sweet innocent bystander that you try to make him out to be when he's throwing a phone and throwing punches. I notice that you also neglect to mention the 3rd person who was convicted of this murder who also did not use a knife but did start the fight and called his friends to come bail him out of the fight he started and couldn't finish on his own. If Alex is aware enough to back up his boy and enter the fight, he's aware enough to understand the repercussions and consequences. It's a sad story but you're giving ATS the sugar coated version of events and not the whole story.

For another view on these events-
www.standard.co.uk...

And further context-
www.murdermap.co.uk...

www.getwestlondon.co.uk...

www.independent.co.uk...

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: nightbringr

So living alone and in fear is better?

No, just be sure who your friends are and trust no-one.

No-one.

Whatever you say. Lots of people in my life I trust.

You must be very lonely, and assume you are single and unmarried, since you would never trust a spouse.

a reply to: redhorse

You think that because a person isn't careful enough about who they get into a car with, or who they may be in proximity to that they should go to prison for being near someone that decides to get violent?

In the car, yes.

Not sure what 'being near' meant.

a reply to: nightbringr

Whatever you say. Lots of people in my life I trust.

Whatever you say...

a reply to: intrptr


That's how they create a prison society. Unjust laws and policies should be repealed if they were honest, but they're not.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ericendtimes
a reply to: crayzeed

Correct.I am retired president of a very large motorcycle club,however as laws progressed it was very hard to attend the weekly meetings to have a cup of beer with the brothers when a couple dudes were in the background working on a bad deed that no one was aware of and all there could go down for it.

You were president and not aware, right. If at least not aware of every act, surely aware of 'potential' , depending on your club of course. There are clubs and there are gangs.

About 80% of the finance sector should be behind bars if we use this logic

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: intrptr


That's how they create a prison society. Unjust laws and policies should be repealed if they were honest, but they're not.

mmm, more like they make menial crimes into felonies, charge people with stiffer sentences for lesser crimes. Prisons are full of those.

Privatizing prisons, making prisoners into product, increasing prisoner numbers to increase profit, follows.

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ericendtimes
a reply to: crayzeed

Correct.I am retired president of a very large motorcycle club,however as laws progressed it was very hard to attend the weekly meetings to have a cup of beer with the brothers when a couple dudes were in the background working on a bad deed that no one was aware of and all there could go down for it.

You were president and not aware, right. If at least not aware of every act, surely aware of 'potential' , depending on your club of course. There are clubs and there are gangs.

About 80% of the finance sector should be behind bars if we use this logic

Imo, bankers are the scum of the earth.

originally posted by: intrptr

About 80% of the finance sector should be behind bars if we use this logic

Imo, bankers are the scum of the earth.

Agreed!
I am not much of a religious person but one thing the Bible and the Koran have right is being against Usury
Everyone does all the work while they leech off of everyone

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: intrptr


That's how they create a prison society. Unjust laws and policies should be repealed if they were honest, but they're not.

mmm, more like they make menial crimes into felonies, charge people with stiffer sentences for lesser crimes. Prisons are full of those.

Privatizing prisons, making prisoners into product, increasing prisoner numbers to increase profit, follows.

Thank you, that is very much my point. Write the laws so that innocent acts are felonies, engage in a zealous enforcement of such crimes, and you soon have a prison society.