The opioid epidemic has hit close to home, our 29 year-old niece almost died!

a reply to: WeRpeons

-Known addicts should be forced into rehab, no matter what their age. Once rehabilitated, they would be responsible to make monthly payments to cover all medical costs. The government should be able to garnish their wages and keep any income tax refunds until fully paid.

A small price to pay for saving them from a life of addiction and possible death. I also think it would directly reduce the crime rates in this country. Considering many robberies and murders stem from the need for money to pay for their drug addictions.

I think, but I am not totally sure, that it is well established that forced rehab does not work on junkies.

Also, I do not think hurting junkies financially would reduce crime (just the opposite, actually!) and it might just ruin a successful rehab - an ex-junkie in distress is often an ex-ex-junkie to be.

The answer, I think, is to educate your doctors on when to prescribe painkillers and when to order actual treatment like surgery or physical rehabilitation. On average a US citizen's use of opioids is 90 times that of a non-US citizen.

The US makes up 4.3% of the world's population, yet uses 80% of the opioids. And that is counting only the prescribed opioids.

It would, I think, go a long way towards stopping the so called epidemic of that percentage could be brought down.

a reply to: lamphead444

No need to be a douchebag.

a reply to: badw0lf

The medical industry is part of the problem. I don't trust in their ability to treat addicts any more than I do state "rehabilitation" (incarceration).

No, addiction is a spiritual problem.

And because people don't like to hear that is why addiction will never go away.

A doctor in Portsmouth England did just that she took 10 addicts and gave them their daily fix and all went back to work and living their normal lives , but there were mass calls from her own to sack her

To many 1% with fingers in that till

a reply to: WeRpeons

Odds are most of these so called dealers are addicts as well. Like the story from the OP where the dealer was a friend of the brother and had a wife with kids, etc. Sounds like he was less of a dealer and more of friend who was also an addict. But probably an addict who was able to maintain a life by self medicating. Most likely he dealt to those other friends because he new first hand the hell of trying to stop and was only trying to help.

It may not sound like help to you but if you can't quit and the world sees you as a problem for being addicted then helping someone maintain a functional life by self medicating is their way of helping them. Because we criminalize what is actually a serious health problem rather than a crime that family is now destroyed as well over this.

These people need help. Real help. Many of them turn to heroin because Big Pharma got them hooked and then stop the supply and they don't have any other place to go. Everyone wants to either shun them, ignore them or lock them up. They are afraid of the system, afraid of the pain and detox, afraid to tell anyone else. It's not a place anyone wants to be but once you're there you will not find any way out that doesn't destroy everything else you have in life so they take that risk hoping they can maintain a basic life with just enough to feel ok.

a reply to: stonerwilliam

You're absolutely correct! Her parents are going through exactly what you're describing. Case in point...Almost dying, you would think It would have scared her enough to come clean, but it didn't!

My wife's sister is dying of cancer. My wife and I are taking care of her so she's staying at our house. She's taking a lot of pain medication, Fentanyl pain patches, Oxycodine, Ativan, and even marijuana pills to help give her an appetite. My niece knows she has pain medication. So while I, my wife and her sister traveled to Chicago for the week for a chemo treatment, and additional testing, my niece was trying to manipulate my son and daughter to get into our house to steal some of my sister-in-laws pain medication! All for the "supposed reason" to use our computer because her printer was out of ink. Not to mention her dad just printed from that same printer early that morning!

They'll say and do anything to get their next fix. It's really pathetic and sad.

a reply to: WeRpeons

I have an insight into the problem which your family has.

A relative of extended family is hopelessly addicted. She works as a barmaid and uses this as a way of meeting blokes who want after hours services.

Some of the blokes want something extra, like a child so she offered up he tiny tot 3-4 year old daughter. The little girl has come into our life for a short time but has left again perhaps permanently to live with her father.

This is what the drug does, it strips people of their human pride and their human dignity.

I spoke to a lady who is a real estate sales person and she told me that their bread and butter sales come from relationship breakdowns and families, selling their homes to pay for drugs for their own or other family members child.

Sorry, but Trump saying opioids are bad is the equivalent of Nancy Reagan saying "Just say no."

a reply to: the owlbear

Oh, I totally understand. I'm just hoping someone gets the ball rolling. I told my daughter nothing will be done unless someone close to the president or some prominent congressional representative loses a loved one due to an overdose.

a reply to: Azureblue

How sad. It's almost like these addicts are possessed by something evil.

a reply to: WeRpeons

With some people that urge to use never seems to go , much like smokers which i can vouch for 100% , i had 3 heart attacks in 5 days and am still puffing like a dragon even after nearly dying .

The best advice i can give you is get her away from the area fast and cut her ties with her user friends for as long as possible and see if that works , but that is one dirty dirty drug that few seem able to kick for any length of time , a friend of mine recently got out of rehab only to find $ 15.000 in his bank account from government benefits he had been due , he was dead less than 2 days later and he was a brainy chap fun and full of life

a reply to: WeRpeons


My best mate died at 21 from a heroin overdose, he moved onto after being heavily addicted to dextroamphetamine that he prescribed for many many years for adhd.

He likely would not have been a substance abuser had he not been forced into being one as a child.

I'm sorry for you , your family your niece and I hope you guys can work through that mess.

I also wanted to comment on what you are proposing as a solution and it just wont work. In all seriousness if that's what you want ,then you should think about moving to the Philippines and from there you can just kill anyone who deals drugs.

a reply to: WeRpeons

somebody else in this thread was right when they said the people responsible for the drug problem are those who control the US militree and national security etc when they said the drug problem is controlled from the top.

We all know that the US has the capacity to fly helicopters or areoplanes over the poppy growing areas and spray them with Roundup. It's easy to do, it costs nothing compared to the money spent on invading other countries, bombing them back into the stone age and trying to conquer the whole world.

In a doco i watched some years ago on the drug problem they said 90-95% of all drugs entering the US comes from 3-4 countries in Latin America.

it also said that about 98% of all drugs entering Europe come from Afghanistan

The drug problem exists because someone wants it to.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: NthOther

I can agree with that, but lets not ignore the criminality of peddling this crap. If you don't have a human system to distribute these drugs, than the main source collapses. I think both the source and the dealers need to be attacked.
These dealers are not exactly innocent angels.

We can incarcerate the foot soldiers who peddle it.

But 90% of the world's supply comes from Afghanistan....

originally posted by: WeRpeons

I am almost complete surrounded by addicts of various kinds in my life. I know few people that - actually none - that are not effect by addiction in some way. Many friends and a few family members have died horrific deaths, some fast but mostly slow and agonizing. More and more I see 'process' addictions taking a toll on individuals and the community gambling, video addiction, sex addictions and many others. Those need to be acknowledged and addressed as well as the classical alcoholism and drug addition that you are speaking of. But don't for a minute think that other, more subtle addictions don't cost us as a society.

I've been in recovery my entire adult life and work with others everyday and disagree that any of your suggestions would work to reduce harm to people and their communities. The more successful approaches are less puntitive.

You see you can't scare an addict out of addictive behavior, most just get belligerent and even more defiant. The fear has to come from inside them, has to be their decision.

What is required, for the health of the addict and the community, is support/schfolding to lessen harm.

-Any one caught dealing drugs should be given the death penalty. How many people have these dealers supplied drugs to that have ended up dead because of an overdose or drugs laced with another dangerous drug? They're as responsible for those deaths as much as someone who has committed 1st degree murder. They know what they're selling and they know it can cause someone to die. Maybe if drug dealers knew there was an extreme price to pay if they got caught dealing drugs, the money to sell drugs would be much less attractive.

This is not possible (China does this now and it doesn't do a single thing to cut down on their drug problems) - not only can't intent (required for murder) be proved nor is it present as a drug dealer doesn't want to lose a good customer - it would be a 'wack a mole' situation - cut one down - a dozen spring up. It would in no instance save lives.

-Known addicts should be forced into rehab, no matter what their age. Once rehabilitated, they would be responsible to make monthly payments to cover all medical costs. The government should be able to garnish their wages and keep any income tax refunds until fully paid. A small price to pay for saving them from a life of addiction and possible death. I also think it would directly reduce the crime rates in this country. Considering many robberies and murders stem from the need for money to pay for their drug addictions.

We do this now in the US - Millions are 'forced' into rehab - it doesn't help. People comply to stay out of jail but it rarely, on it's own, leads to lasting recovery.

-Since street gangs are notorious for dealing drugs on the street, it's about time "street gangs" and any other organization that have been involved in drugs, crime and murder be declared "illegal." The help of the military, CIA, and local police force should be used to eliminate these organizations that recruit our children and do nothing but terrorize neighborhoods.

The war on drugs has been a colossal failure and you want to bring actual 'war' into our neighborhoods. The Constitution has a lot to say about the using the military as a domestic police force. It is a regular attribute of authoritarian regimes.

-Increase surveillance on drug cartels and use the military to eliminate their sanctuaries.

We have 'total information awareness' as it stands - you want even less privacy for citizen's. Again see the Constitution.

-There should be a national healthcare forum to find ways of controlling prescribed addictive pain medication.

Need more explanation here.... But it has a flavor of even more draconian and authoritarian measures.

-Labs across the country in collaboration with labs around the world, should focus on developing medication that can offset the physical and mental aspects of addiction. This would surly lead to other therapies and medication that would also address alcohol and food addictions.

Been working on this for years - and addiction is more then a 'chemical' problem - it's largely psychological and using drugs to cure addictions to substances is just insane for long term abstinence.

-Elementary and middle schools should be showing documentaries of the effects of opioid addiction and the dangers of drugs. Children are impressionable at a young age and this is when we should be scaring the hell out of them about the dangers of taking drugs! I remember back when I was attending middle school, we were shown videos in our health class of people shooting up on heroin, dying of overdoses and hallucinating on '___'. Those videos scared many kids like myself who wouldn't have dared to even think of taking those drugs! Unfortunately, just like other teaching techniques that worked in education over the years, it was eliminated.

You know, it was all the wonderful drug education in the public schools that got me interested in drugs - and I sought them out because of the 'education'. Actual education that would be helpful would intail the teaching of methods and tolls to cope with emotions, other people, fear, situations we don't like ... social tools. And teaching principles of responsiblity and service to others....

I understand your frustration - but we need to look at ourselves - our 'addictive' society - our 'quck-fix' society - our 'kill-it if we are afraid of it' society.

The current opioid crisis can be largely traced back to two things, if you read the literature,: 1) a massive big-pharma marketing plan on these medications - for all pain situations where many could find other less expensive solutions. (Want to talk about DRUG DEALERS) and 2) the sudden crack down on these meds restricting how and when then could be prescribed and so those cut off - already addicted BTW - had to go to the streets for their fix (CRIME, CRIME) and when that got too expensive they moved to the cheaper and unpredictable old favorite of heroin.

While I think a case can be made for Big-Pharma deliberating marketing drugs they knew were addictive with the intent of Profit - I think the longer term consequences where unintended.

I think there are solutions but it must start with society. The priorities of our society are unbearable and cruel. It's is any wonder that people seek oblivion?

I don't think your suggestions will save live and think they do more harm then good but I do want the death and destruction to end ... it's a horrible way to have to live ... the fear and anger ... the powerlessness ... are indescribable. It's everywhere.

So much for my late Sunday rate.

Peace --- brother.

I've been aware of heroin's effects since the 90's way before the pain pills started flowing. Legalization and treatment are the only way to beat it. I've had the drug in front of me and I know people that have died from it. Most people that take this drug never beat the addiction. My cousins high school was nicknamed heroin high. My cousin is hooked on this stuff. He's basically dead to me. We were very close before but now I don't want anything to do with him. Theres no hope he's as good as dead. I can't help him no one can. He's either going to quit die or end up in prison for a very long time. 99% of heroin addicts never quit and they are not afraid of death. After a while they welcome it.

a reply to: lamphead444

You sound like a really nice person, -not. Calling my niece a retard and than saying you're truly sorry what happened rings shallow to me. Maybe if you had a loved one who got addicted to prescription drugs, or had an addiction problem you would have a totally different perspective on the situation.

According to your twisted view, drug dealers are innocent and shouldn't shoulder some of the blame for supplying drugs that end up killing people. Some dealers know these drugs are laced with fentanyl which can cause a fatal overdose! Which is exactly what happened with my niece.

I never justified my nieces poor decision to take drugs. However just for your information, dealing and supplying drugs is a felony in the U.S.. Many state have a statute called "felony murder." Such statutes allow dealers to be prosecuted for murder or in some cases executed if a death occurs because of a felony they commit. Even if they were not the direct killer! So really I'm not the only one blaming these dealers.

Just this past year our local school district had children rushed to the hospital because suckers were laced with strong THC were being passed around our local middle school. So your idea that everyone who takes drugs wants to, surely doesn't fall into this category! These children thought they were getting candy but were actually being drugged by local dealers trying to addict young people.

The best advice i can give you is get her away from the area fast and cut her ties with her user friends for as long as possible and see if that works

a reply to: stonerwilliam

The only problem with that is her parents can't force anything on her because she's a 29 year-old adult. The police told her parents they can't force her to do anything even though she's still living under their roof and can't hold a job. Some people told her parents to kick her out of the house and let her fend for herself. It's kind of difficult to do when you love and care about the welfare of your daughter. Who knows, if they actually did that, she may turn to crime to support her addiction and live off the streets and become a worst addict than she already is.

It's a bad situation. She's needs to recognize her problem and seek help to kick the addiction. Really, forcing her to get help doesn't necessarily mean she won't crave getting a fix. Which goes against my own idea of forcing addicts to get help.

Remember reading when they ended prohibition and marijuana became illegal the atty general at the time said that the government didn't care about the welfare of citizens,MJ has medical properties,alchohol can kill you,can see where the money is,same deal with prescript drugs,FDA are drug dealers,pay them enough your drug will become legal

a reply to: WeRpeons

I don't know anything about hard drugs, never took them. And what little I do know is all in the name. They are called HARD drugs for a very good reason, they will ALWAYS get there better of you.
I have however ample experience with cannabis.
And I can tell you that there are no physically addictive elements in cannabis.
You cannot give someone THC willingly or otherwise and expect them to become addicted. It doesn't work like that.

Having said that it's ofcourse possible to let cannabis have a negative effect on your life. But it will never be an addiction thats maintained by the physical craving.

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: badw0lf

The medical industry is part of the problem. I don't trust in their ability to treat addicts any more than I do state "rehabilitation" (incarceration).

No, addiction is a spiritual problem.

And because people don't like to hear that is why addiction will never go away.

No, people who are so desperate for hope, find spirituality. And replace addiction with imagined hope.

It is a medical issue. I'm not saying lump them in a hospital and just have GPs administer drugs to keep them from themselves, I'm talking a whole new approach. But it is political suicide to legislate against the current norm, so the law will be what it is as a first line in any approach. That is, treating them as criminals.

It's prohibition mark 2 all over. People will die, addicts will suffer, and the problem will not be resolved.

Addiction will never go away because people are addictive by nature, and more so when they are outcast and lost and need someone to help them. But junkies are scum, in the eyes of society, so they will never receive that help. This world is harsh for even rich people. Imagine what it is to be living day to day, with no moral support.

and god is not the answer.