Astral Projection/Self-brainwashing?

Well, that depend.

If someone really believe it and/or have experienced astral projection, then it is not brainwashing but believing and that quote you said, I agree with it.

I have one quote that sound like the same:

"We are not human beeing having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beeing having a human experience"

I guess that if you agree with that quote, then you will not find what Bruce say as brainwashing. If you believe the contrary, then you might find Bruce comment brainwashing.

It's just a matter of belief.

Obsidian:

Also, astral forms don't need to regenerate. They draw upon energy available from natural sources in the physical and spirit worldto keep themselves sustained, much like our physical bodies eat food that is widely available in the physical world.

^^^
The drawing upon energy is the regenerating of the spirit. A spirit is physical because energy is physical. But the gap you can make between your human body and spirit body can be made . In that sense there is a seperation even though it is all you. The gap is where the energy is not being gathered by far even though we know engery is present. Even though this world got your soul throughout it (which is cosmos related) you can gather the engery into a spirit more in certain areas.

Finally, you state that people who astrally project tend to keep their astral selves away from their physical bodies. Quite the contrary. The astral self is nothing more than one's own soul. It's something that's very important to keep within oneself. Without your soul, you can't have a physical body. Without your soul, you die.

^^^That's not what I said. If you noticed I spoke about the depth they can bring their spirit into being--that they "tend" to keep away from their human body. Unless they want their human body feeling what can be called hell spiritually.

Another thing I will straighen with you. There is a distinction between 'the self', 'the soul', and the physical body (be it human or be it spirit or be it this world. But nonetheless, it is of this physical world).

They can be told as seperate things that are combined (as though married). It's what makes up the 'you' and even the 'who'.

Ok now, my kind and your kind are distinct. Or else, I'd be purely able to astral travel. When I ('the self') go away from this cosmos/world my 'self' wont even remain in this soul (which means I wont remain in this world's body either). But your kind, 'self' wise, will remain in the same soul (and that soul will reconfigure 'you' in due season--which means, basically, the 'you' of your kind will remain of this world's body--repostioned and in another way, but the 'you' of your kind shall remain).


That's a difference.

Mark 13:
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

^^^Shall remain saved. Saved like a saved program in a computer. I'm no Christian because if I were I would have said saved meant saved from hell. I made no reference to Christian scripture, I made reference toward things in the "gospels" that are in truth.

I tell you one thing, this soul I have now sure is an abomination for the simple fact it allows ones of your kind to invade my person. But do you see that though this is your body and soul for the keeping...my kind is barely being here before (as in, in front/to) your kind reveals the thief in general? Both kinds are as theives as long as both are here. But soon later, when my kind is gone from here, your kind will no longer be theives toward my kind, unless your kind counts being as I command your kind be as being as "the watch me" since I (representing my kind) will still be as the thief towards your kind into life everlasting how things are prepared and set.

By the way, I aint condemning anyone...for that is something only one's own self may have done of their own self. A matter which goes back into the foundation of the world.



[edit on 10-2-2005 by Sign Related 2]

Originally posted by Sign Related 2
Obsidian:

^^^
The drawing upon energy is the regenerating of the spirit. A spirit is physical because energy is physical. But the gap you can make between your human body and spirit body can be made . In that sense there is a seperation even though it is all you. The gap is where the energy is not being gathered by far even though we know engery is present. Even though this world got your soul throughout it (which is cosmos related) you can gather the engery into a spirit more in certain areas.

On a matter of semantics, I'll give you this one. The seperation between the physical body and spiritual self is in fact, all the same entity. All I do with astral travel is seperate the spiritual side of myself from my physical body, and project it into the spirit realm. Spirits away from the physical body do not constantly absorb energy, so of course there is gaps where no energy is absorbed. My soul does permeate this world and others, as does yours, as does the soul of every creature in existence. This is not unknown or revelation.

Finally, you state that people who astrally project tend to keep their astral selves away from their physical bodies. Quite the contrary. The astral self is nothing more than one's own soul. It's something that's very important to keep within oneself. Without your soul, you can't have a physical body. Without your soul, you die.

^^^That's not what I said. If you noticed I spoke about the depth they can bring their spirit into being--that they "tend" to keep away from their human body. Unless they want their human body feeling what can be called hell spiritually.

That is precicely what you stated. I shall repost your own words:

I know humans that astral project tend more so toward keeping the depth of their regenerating astral self away from their human self.

If I am reading this correctly, you state here that people capable of astral projection tend to keep their astral forms away from their physical bodies, as in seperate, never merging. As someone who is very experienced with astral projection, I will point out the major flaw in this argument with firsthand experience. My soul (or astral form, if you will) resides within my body every moment that I am not astrally projecting. Every other person who can astrally project will confirm that it is the same with them.

If I am misinterpreting your intended thought, then perhaps you should word things a little more clearly so as to eliminate potential misinterpretation.. I, and several others, have all interpreted what you said to mean exactly as I thought it meant.

Another thing I will straighen with you. There is a distinction between 'the self', 'the soul', and the physical body (be it human or be it spirit or be it this world. But nonetheless, it is of this physical world).

They can be told as seperate things that are combined (as though married). It's what makes up the 'you' and even the 'who'.

I never argued the distinction between the soul and the body. The self is simply the combination of the soul and the body. The body is of the physical. The self is only partially physical, and the soul is of the metaphysical (outside of the physical). The "self" is the complete person that you experience, a combination of the physical body and the metaphysical soul. Body = physical, soul = metaphysical, self = total combined experience.

Ok now, my kind and your kind are distinct. Or else, I'd be purely able to astral travel. When I ('the self') go away from this cosmos/world my 'self' wont even remain in this soul (which means I wont remain in this world's body either). But your kind, 'self' wise, will remain in the same soul (and that soul will reconfigure 'you' in due season--which means, basically, the 'you' of your kind will remain of this world's body--repostioned and in another way, but the 'you' of your kind shall remain).


That's a difference.

You are capable of astral travel, just as I am. You have simply chosen not to awaken this side of yourself. That is your choice, and yours alone. When you do die, your soul is all that will remain of you. It is the eternal part of your "self"... that which lives on after death of the mortal body. Your soul won't necessarily remain on this physical realm (most likely, it will ascend to the spirit realm). Your consiousness exists wholly within your soul. If you were to somehow depart your soul, you would cease to exist. The consiousness needs the soul to exist in the spirit world, like the soul needs the body to
exist in the physical realm. To insinuate that you will leave your soul behind is to insinuate that you will destroy your soul upon your death. This is simply not possible, as the soul is eternal, and cannot exist without sentience (also known as the consiousness). The consiousness also cannot exist without the soul (the energies that sustain the consiousness). Adding this all up, this basically equates to you having the same makeup of soul/body as I or anyone else in a mortal form has. One again, this leads to me stating that you are no different than I, besides a difference in awakened abilities. I also will not remain in a body on this world after this lifetime, due to my transcendence. My soul will still exist, but in a form that is no longer that of a mortal soul. Once the flesh of my current body dies, that is the last time I shall appear on this earth. My soul will live in the spirit realm, tending to duties outside of the realm of mortal souls. Perhaps I will be a guide for you in your next life.

Mark 13:
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

^^^Shall remain saved. Saved like a saved program in a computer. I'm no Christian because if I were I would have said saved meant saved from hell. I made no reference to Christian scripture, I made reference toward things in the "gospels" that are in truth.

Yet another reference to Christian scripture. Mark = book of the Christian bible. 13 = chapter of the book in which this passage can be found.

I shall also post your past references to Christian scripture:

But nevertheless, it is how come hell in general reveals one as the hypocrites just as the parable does of the poor begger and the rich man in Luke 16

...

Also the "elect" and the "children of light" mentioned in the gospels reveal your very kind.

Luke 16 - another book and chapter found in the Christian bible.

A reference to the gospels, an accepted term for passages from the Christian bible.

Anything written in the bible is considered scripture by any Christian. Now that I have pointed out your references to scripture and caught you in a lie, should I have to elaborate further on this point?

In addition to quoting scripture, you are also applying your own interpretations to the bible. While I can accept that you have your own interpretations, I feel that you should explain a little further about your interpretations, so that I can better understand your meaning.

I tell you one thing, this soul I have now sure is an abomination for the simple fact it allows ones of your kind to invade my person. But do you see that though this is your body and soul for the keeping...my kind is barely being here before (as in, in front/to) your kind reveals the thief in general? Both kinds are as theives as long as both are here. But soon later, when my kind is gone from here, your kind will no longer be theives toward my kind, unless your kind counts being as I command your kind be as being as "the watch me" since I (representing my kind) will still be as the thief towards your kind into life everlasting how things are prepared and set.

The soul you have now is the same soul you have always had, and always will have. I still do not feel that it is an astral traveller that is invading your being. Though it is possible, it simply doesn't occur without notice, and being a guardian and enforcer for the Creators as I am, I would have been informed of an incursion of this sort by an astral traveller.

Your body and soul belong to noone but yourself. I also know not what you speak of regarding thieves. Astral travellers are not theives. We are simply enlightened souls looking for further enlightenment. The only "thieves" of body and soul that I can think of is once again the entities that the Christian faith refers to as demons. As I previously stated, demons are not the same thing as astral travellers. The only thing in common between the two is that they both travel the spirit world. Astral travellers are based in a mortal body, whereas demons are based in the spirit world, having never lived in a mortal body that they did not forcibly possess. I think you are looking for entities of pure dark enegy known as demons, and not us that travel the astral whom are based in a mortal form.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the last part of this quote, but I get the feeling that you are talking about enslaving those that have harmed you. Given the rest of my explanation on this subject, it sounds that you wish to eventually command demons, which is an "evil" thing, almost as bad as inhibiting the free will of a soul. I truly hope this is not the case, as I don't wish to see further harm come to you, and that is all that will come from enslaving those called "demons."

By the way, I aint condemning anyone...for that is something only one's own self may have done of their own self. A matter which goes back into the foundation of the world.

You clearly condemned me in your last post. Unless I once again misinterpreted your words. I shall post:

I'm glad I wont remain here, though what I will have commanded will. Plus, death is something that your kind should fear. Your kind will live and die at the same time in hell upon a certain hour coming

That certainly sounds to me of a condemnation to fear what lies beyond... that some horrible fate awaits me because of my spiritual practices. You have just stated here that all who practice astral travel will essentially burn in hell. Quite a condemning statement for one who never condemned anyone. I have personally never done anything to condemn myself to any fate other than the one I am working towards, which is transcendence (which is hardly a condemnation). I cannot speak fully for other astral travellers as I do not know them all, but I assure you, the vast majority of them have never done anything, at least astrally, that would condemn them to a similar fate to the one you predicted for me. In addition to the above condemning statement, calling those of us who astrally travel "devils" condemns us in the eyes of those who do not understand. It is talk like this that causes witch-hunts. I personally do not wish to relive the Salem witch trials. Once was enough.

My advice to you is to look inside yourself and find out what it truly is that plagues you, so that when you speak against them, you speak with a knowledge that is just. I do not believe it is those of us that astrally travel that have done you wrong. I do believe that it is another force that exists independent of those of us who live in mortal bodies. I'd advise taking a closer look at the entities that the Christians call demons. I'll even give you a few references, if you wish.

Obsindain:


About that depth thing, you know exactly what I mean.

Me, capable of astral travel? Only if your kind makes my mind see what they see (And yes, I have seen some of what your kind made me see). In that sense only. And that is not in the sense where I willingly am able to do so.

This soul here in this cosmos represents "destroy". Of course what's in it is the physical body of the world, where you even see the cycle of the cosmos. Hint: Human bodies whither away and etc of other things that reveal the destructive nature of this cosmos. Planets get struck with rocks from space. Yada yada. The soul here, which is of the foundation of here, in this cosmos will destroy the 'you' that remains saved. The only 'you' that shall remain here is of your kind. Which means your kind's very 'selves' will experience desolation. But the destruction can be also called fruitful, nevertheless.

I will leave this cosmos here for your kind (so that your kind will be fruitful of the works). And even though gone, I shall have your kind and your kind shall be mine. Be not deceived because I shall live even though gone from this cosmos.

You caught me in no lie at all. Just bcause Christians read the gospels doesnt mean that others who read the gospels are Christians. That is a fact present in this world now. To be honest with you, your kind be the true Christs (true Christians). There are people out here that may call themselves Christians (Christs), but they are false Christs (false Christians). I told RiverGoddess that Jesus was not evil, but Lord Jesus Christ is. But I'm not going to get into that.

HAHA, me, command demons? LOL! Unless you're calling your kind that. You see, the master of the house can do anything with anything or anyone of ITSELF. The angels (soul wise and physical wise: As the Holy Ghost) of your kind will turn against the 'selves' of your kind. This is how come your kind's freedom can be called a paradox.

You know what? The master of the house can condemn an evil part of ITSELF by the very ones of their own selves of ITSELF. Simply stating a truth about your kind condemning themselves cant be looked at as me condemning your kind.

'Not' because of any spiritual practices is your kind condemned, though that could be possible, but because of your kind's own 'selves' is your kind condemned. It's 'not so' the why, but the how. There are truths that will plainly be known of your kind's selves when that particular day and hour come. Watch your return, for it is as someone saying, Watch your back.

Your kind will be given unto the Jews. The Jews meaning the stars in space.

By the way, in my book, 'the self' is as a commander and chief/carpenter (in some cases was as that)...'the soul' is as all the tools in general 'the self' could use so that 'the self' might build, might plant, and might make merry itself unto the body of the world.

The essence in 'the soul' hails the particular substance of body (world) concerning the particular essence. Those that are as entered into the astral plane reveal their 'minds' as being a fixed part of this very body (this very world). In other deep words, that there reveals a deep rooted 'intent' captured (Yes, captured like evidence that convicts). It's so deep it is dark and (and because it) goes back into the foundation of this world before human perception.

^^^The evil that was before coming into the world is the dark evil I'm getting at.

The 'mind' is the crucial part of 'the self' because it is 'for telling' the state of things (such as of sin, of judgment, and of righteousness) and of placement and of oneself. "Tell" goes both ways. "Tell" as in transmit whatever. And "tell" as in read and make out whatever.

^^^Once you get that which "tell" means, you get that which "watch" means. And so yes indeed is the 'mind' as the 'eye' also.

And I want you to understand, that revenge is a must needs be as long as the evil be. Revenge is unlike evil because it is justified as self-respect. If I respect my very mind I must get justice and be releaved of what I can tell would be the wrongful treatment from others into life everlasting. What I will have commanded done with 'mine' own verily reveals anyone that did effect me as apart of 'mine'. If I want what is 'mine' burned in the fire of the stars, then so shall it be. And that will be so soon as I get home (unto paradise).

Sign Related 2:

At this point, what it seems is that you are simply arguing semantics. This thread is not about semantics, but rather astral travel. If you are indeed still trying to prove a point, the terminology you use has a very different meaning to you than it does to everyone else, and I, as well as others, am having a very difficult time following anything you're saying.

As I do not wish to argue semantics, I do not wish to discuss this further. I'd prefer to stay on topic.

As you seem to have meanings for terms that are vastly different from the generally accepted meanings of terms, I fear that I won't be able to approriately respond to anything you write, unless you define every term you use, which, so far, you seem either unable or unwilling to do.

This said, I consider my discussion with you complete.

I think when rivergodes says "Communicate" its not jumping into peoples "thoughts/minds" (thats the impression i get from what Sign R 2 believes)

I think Rivergodess means its communicating soly on the "Astral plane" with other people who are on that plain, not this one (other beings who are "out of body" or just on that plain ect)

I think Sign R 2 believes that Rivergodess is communicating from the Astral plain to this "earth" plain making it communication between those two plains (carnt think of an better word for earth/this/ect) therefore jumping into peoples minds to communicate ect

I could be wrong, but by "Communicating" i think Rivergoddess means ONLY communicating with people on the Astral Plain (majority) while ON that Astral Plain (communicating with people on same plain)

I think Sign R 2 believes that Rivergodess is communicating from Astral plain into earth plain (going into peoples minds ect)

sorry, im real bad at explaining, but i believe its basicly a "Communication misunderstanding"

However i could be wrong compleatly.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by Crash]

Originally posted by Crash
I think when rivergodes says "Communicate" its not jumping into peoples "thoughts/minds" (thats the impression i get from what Sign R 2 believes)

I think Rivergodess means its communicating soly on the "Astral plane" with other people who are on that plain, not this one (other beings who are "out of body" or just on that plain ect)

I think Sign R 2 believes that Rivergodess is communicating from the Astral plain to this "earth" plain making it communication between those two plains (carnt think of an better word for earth/this/ect) therefore jumping into peoples minds to communicate ect

I could be wrong, but by "Communicating" i think Rivergoddess means ONLY communicating with people on the Astral Plain (majority) while ON that Astral Plain (communicating with people on same plain)

I think Sign R 2 believes that Rivergodess is communicating from Astral plain into earth plain (going into peoples minds ect)

sorry, im real bad at explaining, but i believe its basicly a "Communication misunderstanding"

However i could be wrong compleatly.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by Crash]

Crash, your thoughts here are correct. From the best that I've been able to glean from SR2's posts, he's talking about a completely different type of astral entity. I think he's referring to the type of entity commonly called a "demon" - a being that exists astrally, and has the capability of forcibly possessing a mortal body in this physical plane, as well as the capability to plant thoughts and images into beings on our physical plane. These beings are well known for this type of activity, as it is the way they operate to gain whatever ends they are looking for,

Astral travellers, such as Rivergoddess and myself, however, are based in a mortal body, and send our souls to the astral plane to gain enlightenment, which does often include communication with other astral beings. The capabilities of the demons are possible by astral travellers as well, though often very dangerous, and typically not possible for any but the most experienced.

So, in essence, what I'm saying in this long, drawn-out post is that yes, you are reading things correctly.

Originally posted by Crash
I think when rivergodes says "Communicate" its not jumping into peoples "thoughts/minds" (thats the impression i get from what Sign R 2 believes)

I think Rivergodess means its communicating soly on the "Astral plane" with other people who are on that plain, not this one (other beings who are "out of body" or just on that plain ect)

I think Sign R 2 believes that Rivergodess is communicating from the Astral plain to this "earth" plain making it communication between those two plains (carnt think of an better word for earth/this/ect) therefore jumping into peoples minds to communicate ect

I could be wrong, but by "Communicating" i think Rivergoddess means ONLY communicating with people on the Astral Plain (majority) while ON that Astral Plain (communicating with people on same plain)

I think Sign R 2 believes that Rivergodess is communicating from Astral plain into earth plain (going into peoples minds ect)

sorry, im real bad at explaining, but i believe its basicly a "Communication misunderstanding"

However i could be wrong compleatly.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by Crash]

I have something I want you to see, Crash. But before I show you it I will say this:

Is not the astral body as the self of the very person and as the mind of the very person in whole? Did RiverGoddess show to deny that? Surely if she communicated with other's she communication into those other's minds. And since the spirit is of energy it is physical.

Now let me show you about the Jesus that was not evil in what he told which you, if you're wise, will see something evident plain as day since we're talking "communication"...

Jesus:

28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.


^^^the prince? I rest my case. You know what all I could say. And now you see Jesus must have known about those that astral project even though astral projection as a label was not used back then if we go strickly by what's in the written gospels. I seperate the gospels from the rest of the bible for good reason. The gospels are about those that astral project and what they are apart of. I'm not even going to get into it any further because I know you have your own mind that is capable of figuring out things verily (if the shoe fits, it fits. If the bill fits the description, even outside of labels, then so it does indeed).

Pay mind to "now shall the prince of this world be cast out"... Did not Osbinian mention the spirit always being present in his kind's human self? Did not I tell all reading that their 'mind' (which is of their 'self') is captured? You ever hear of this figure of speach: "Are you out your God damn mind?"

In one of the gospels not included in the bible Jesus mentioned about "When you make the outside like the inside and the inside like the outside". Something along those lines.


Now I got one more quote for you:

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

^^^Haha, people who claim to have felt the Holy Ghost just didnt get it revealed yet that people that astral travel were behind that. Now if the label fits the description then so it fits the description. If it wasnt labeled "Holy Ghost" or "God" or "Lord" in the gospels then that which Jesus was describing wouldnt of made it in plain veiw of what now some people read. If you look at what's being described aside from the labels you will see truth stuck in on the slick wise from Jesus (which the master of the house spoke through as).

You know what also, Crash? Some people say the self is not. Do you want me to get into the in truth facts about words like "not" and "no" and "no man" when the supernatural or metaphysical is being revealed by those that astral project?

When someone say, "It's not possible" you, if you're wise, do realise the paradox. The funniest saying of them all is when someone says, "Not so". For there is something in the not sense being so indeed. Jesus sure did reveal a lot in that wise to where you can see the intent in his revealing of certain truths. Be far from being mistaken when the master of the house is how come we have the kjv of the gospels.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by Sign Related 2]

Originally posted by Crash


I think Rivergodess means its communicating soly on the "Astral plane" with other people who are on that plain, not this one (other beings who are "out of body" or just on that plain ect)

I could be wrong, but by "Communicating" i think Rivergoddess means ONLY communicating with people on the Astral Plain (majority) while ON that Astral Plain (communicating with people on same plain)

No Crash your not wrong at all......I shall be more specific here.
When I say COMUNICATE, that means that I, as a seperate being, may meet another SEPERATE being in the realm of the Astral...the two of us beings then of free will can choose to 'speak' so to say, sharing feelings and emotions of our seperate selves, with the one another.
I am ~AGHAST~ that some person would take that to possibly mean I inhabit some unknowing, physicall persons mind and FORCE them to have thoughts or dreams not of thier own! that is clearly the work of a demon and NOT an Astral traveller!
.....in the Astral plane, I am dealing with beings that ALSO are allready in the Astral plane by choice...... no way, no how does that imply some kind of POSSESION........the beings I may encounter in this plane are of a vast variety, and it is personally obvious to me, wich beings are DARK in nature for they have very little light and I avoid them. I am personally drawn to beings of a very bright light. Who knows? Maybe I have been in the presance of Angells? I do know what it is like to encounter another mortal being on the same quest as myself, and there is great joy in the meeting, a sharing a happiness that we, as mortals, with the ability to travel the Astral Plane are not alone in our quest for enlightenment.

The more I read of SR2 posting, the more convinced I am of the unstable nature of the mind they posess.....its a sad thing indeed and I shall pray for them, but beware readers who may be drawn to the words they are writting...this is a ~VEWY KWAZY WABBITT~

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
I am AGAST that some person would take that to possibly mean I inhabit some unknowing physicall persons mind and FORCE them to have thoughts or dreams not od thier own.....in the Astral plane, I am dealing with beings that ALSO are allready in the Astral plane...... no way no how does that imply some kind of POSSESION........

It seems that right-minded individuals like us that don't wish to taint others are the ones that are going to be ultimately responsible for helping the curious achieve their potential.

Honestly, I've given up on SR2 and all of his convoluded rhetoric. I hope one day he is able to finally understand, though I don't count on it.

Keep love and life alive!

Originally posted by DavidOBE


If someone really believe it and/or have experienced astral projection, then it is not brainwashing but believing and that quote you said, I agree with it.

I have one quote that sound like the same:

"We are not human beeing having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beeing having a human experience"

I guess that if you agree with that quote, then you will not find what Bruce say as brainwashing. If you believe the contrary, then you might find Bruce comment brainwashing.

It's just a matter of belief.

This is a VERY good answer in keeping with the origonally intended purpose of this thread.
Any belief one decides to take into thier lives, can in be a form of self-brainwashing. Any belief a person takes to heart will become TRUE for them, they will see the truth of this belief everywhere they look and feel justified in continuing with the belief.
Affirmations are a form of self brain-washing, in order to get yourself to BELIEVE things wich you wish to encompus into your life. Self-brainwashing, or a better word I think would be SELF-HYPNOSIS.
The affirmations one uses to get your self READY for Astral travel, would in truth be a form of self-brainwashing.
Being ABLE to Astral travel is not something unreal, that you just THINK could be happening to you...it is a genuine experiance, a gift so to say from the Great Creative Powers of this Universe. I believe that no matter HOW MANY times you make the attempt, if the universe does not deem you ready for such an experiance, it will be withheld from you. Hence the many beliefs that it is NOT a genuine experiance, from the many who are not yet ready for this experiance.
Rock on Joey! seek and ya shall find!
(just dont BELIEVE evrey darn thing you read hun trust in your heart )

[edit on 12-2-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

I feel the biggest brainwashers are the education system, the media, and the government. From birth we are gently programmed to believe only that which falls into certain parameters....respect others rights.....unless they are gay.........being religious is okay......unless you are a pagan.....etc.
I find that the stuff taught in our schools, right up through university, is often far from what I feel is the accurate version of events, and is very biased, and subtly brainwashing those who are there to learn.
Astral projection is a bizarre and inexplicable phenomena that I have seen to be truly existing. That I am convinced in no way means I expect anyone else to be. I speak for me alone.

Well about Religion and Astral Travel

I think that certain people in religious books did astral travel Muhhamed (From Koran, Muslim Holy book) did this type of travel when he first "met the angel gabriel, i think that was the name of the angel"

I cannot remember the text but it sounds like it (i also think it said about a cord)

However not been able to astral travel myself (Yet anyways) i would not know

[edit on 12-2-2005 by Crash]

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess

Originally posted by Crash


I think Rivergodess means its communicating soly on the "Astral plane" with other people who are on that plain, not this one (other beings who are "out of body" or just on that plain ect)

I could be wrong, but by "Communicating" i think Rivergoddess means ONLY communicating with people on the Astral Plain (majority) while ON that Astral Plain (communicating with people on same plain)

No Crash your not wrong at all......I shall be more specific here.
When I say COMUNICATE, that means that I, as a seperate being, may meet another SEPERATE being in the realm of the Astral...the two of us beings then of free will can choose to 'speak' so to say, sharing feelings and emotions of our seperate selves, with the one another.
I am ~AGHAST~ that some person would take that to possibly mean I inhabit some unknowing, physicall persons mind and FORCE them to have thoughts or dreams not of thier own! that is clearly the work of a demon and NOT an Astral traveller!
.....in the Astral plane, I am dealing with beings that ALSO are allready in the Astral plane by choice...... no way, no how does that imply some kind of POSSESION........the beings I may encounter in this plane are of a vast variety, and it is personally obvious to me, wich beings are DARK in nature for they have very little light and I avoid them. I am personally drawn to beings of a very bright light. Who knows? Maybe I have been in the presance of Angells? I do know what it is like to encounter another mortal being on the same quest as myself, and there is great joy in the meeting, a sharing a happiness that we, as mortals, with the ability to travel the Astral Plane are not alone in our quest for enlightenment.

The more I read of SR2 posting, the more convinced I am of the unstable nature of the mind they posess.....its a sad thing indeed and I shall pray for them, but beware readers who may be drawn to the words they are writting...this is a ~VEWY KWAZY WABBITT~

I don't see astral projection as brainwashing. I have experienced both astral projection, and OBE. I think everyone has the ability to do this. Mastering these abilities is a whole different story....I haven't been able to control when and where. On my last attempt to control the AP I am hoping I was successful.......... I was wondering, if you AP into someones home or elsewheres, can these people see you, or can they sense your presence

Originally posted by ms_Bhavn
II was wondering, if you AP into someones home or elsewheres, can these people see you, or can they sense your presence

Last June, an online friend who lives about 250 miles south of me emailed me one night to ask if my fiance had mentioned seeing the ducks in the park, as she had been visited by my fiance's spirit while she fed ducks in the park on her lunch break. A few hours earlier that day, while I fed my fiance her lunch in hospital, where she was recovering from a bad head injury, she said to me three times, " see the ducks in the park." I said sure honey when you get better we will, but she made it clear that I was missing her point.
I replied to my friend, 'Yes, she did.'
So, yes, I believe that they can see you..........I'm completely convinced that it is indeed possible and does happen. It is likely the most awesome and amazing paranormal event that I've ever experienced personally.

Originally posted by Sign Related 2


Hold up. You pray? Explain that in full.

I know all about what pray truely represents of your kind. I know for a fact that someone's astral body can falsely convince someone else into believing whatsoever

Lastly, beware of just who I am.

[edit on 12-2-2005 by Sign Related 2]

hmmmm I am wondering WHY your demands for a full explanation is supposed to be honored here, when my questions put to you in respect are tossed aside?
I have attempted discourse with you yet you refuse to answer in kind. Tell me now WHY you demands should be met??
Prayer, for MOST people in the mortal plane, is a the way comunication with the creator, being gratefull for our lives and all the blessings that we have, and praying also for the enlightenment of others who have none.
You crack me up in insinuating that SOMEHOW my prayers can possibly ~FORCE~ another person to believe falsehoods or whatever it IS your implying.....
No worries on your oddly cloaked threats, I wont 'BEWARE OF WHO YOU ARE'.......negative darkness is just not welcome in my life, therefore is not a part of my life.
Your VERY lucky I bother to respond to your retoric in any way... but I do this for the sake of other readers and not for you........

Im a fully finished with any comunication regarding yourself, and must leave this thread before I return to ~LOONEY TOONS~ referances regarding your odd train of thought.

May love and light surround you, please go in peace.....
And so it IS.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

I have a theory regarding Sign Related 2's words.... it might be interesting to those whom I have explained my purpose here to. U2U me if you want to discuss it. I don't want to post a theory without a little something to back it up...

Wow. All this talk about energy and dreams and astral projection spying and pseudoscience is blurring together. Eyes hurt. I think I need an advil now.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess

Originally posted by Sign Related 2


Hold up. You pray? Explain that in full.

I know all about what pray truely represents of your kind. I know for a fact that someone's astral body can falsely convince someone else into believing whatsoever

Lastly, beware of just who I am.

[edit on 12-2-2005 by Sign Related 2]

hmmmm I am wondering WHY your demands for a full explanation is supposed to be honored here, when my questions put to you in respect are tossed aside?
I have attempted discourse with you yet you refuse to answer in kind. Tell me now WHY you demands should be met??

Prayer, for MOST people in the mortal plane, is a the way comunication with the creator, being gratefull for our lives and all the blessings that we have, and praying also for the enlightenment of others who have none.
You crack me up in insinuating that SOMEHOW my prayers can possibly ~FORCE~ another person to believe falsehoods

or whatever it IS your implying.....
No worries on your oddly cloaked threats, I wont 'BEWARE OF WHO YOU ARE'.......negative darkness is just not welcome in my life, therefore is not a part of my life.
Your VERY lucky I bother to respond to your retoric in any way... but I do this for the sake of other readers and not for you........

Im a fully finished with any comunication regarding yourself, and must leave this thread before I return to ~LOONEY TOONS~ referances regarding your odd train of thought.

May love and light surround you, please go in peace.....
And so it IS.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

I am more kind than your kind, actually. And your kind can judge my self-respect now or later about that verily. All of the dark selves I have are in danger of my self-respect. If you're 'not' a dark one, self wise, than you behold 'nothing' you should worry about.

When you say you "wont beware of who you are"... I can understand how you're worried of "who" you are concerning the bigger picture. The "who" your kind be come I have great authority I shall have put up in you and them so that you and they will be 'interpreted' as me: the thief: but in reflection (more so in reflection of how I would have ever been when we get into depth). What's in a reflection isnt the same as what's being reflected--The thing is, is I can crack a reflection in a mirror by striking the mirror, but the reflection in the mirror, along with the mirror, cant crack me. Though it can be 'interpreted' that that now cracked mirror once indeed struck me. Mirrors beam illuminations, do they not? Illuminations are striking.

And like O. made an example out of a wall when seen up close...so will I make an example about light... The further away something is from the mirror, the more the light (which is how come a reflection can even be) reveals its imperfection. Then is the light seen as a corrupting desolation which can be 'interpreted' as being something dark which had always been of the dark light or dark energy. But yet and still is the light fruitful. Plus, I bet you have seen somebody in a picture or on TV that looked more different in real life.

Who or what do you know of as being your creator, if you'll profess?

What's one or more things of significance to you that your creator has revealed about yourself that you didnt know of until revealed?