Google It's Time To Stop

Yes, my goodness.

We can't be subjected to anything that is counter to what we believe now, can we?

Seriously, think about it. If I look up "chocolate chip cookies'" I may get results that reasonably include:

"chocolate chip cookies bad"

"chocolate chip cookies good"

"chocolate chip cookies indifferent"

... perhaps if some stopped considering anything committed to digital video as automatically true (or false, as your prejudices may dictate) some would be less upset by a company taking steps to police it's own content.

IMO

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

www.theguardian.com...

Smaller social networks are struggling to deal with an influx of extremist users forced off the platforms of the “big four” technology firms, an audience of policymakers and campaigners has been told.

www.theguardian.com...

Social media companies are putting profit before safety and should face fines of tens of millions of pounds for failing to remove extremist and hate crime material promptly from their websites, MPs have said. The largest and richest technology firms are “shamefully far” from taking action to tackle illegal and dangerous content, according to a report by the Commons home affairs committee.

That is why Google and Facebook are HAVING to do it. Our governments are telling them to do it. Like the Wild West or the Bronx had to be tamed because of too much mayhem and murder so the wild beast of the internet must also be civilized.

There are signs that we are being decivilized by our own darkness. Would you rather have it that murders and rapes have regular real time on Facebook? Would you rather have it that your sister's rape gets lots of likes on YouTube? Think very hard about freedom. Is it freedom enough for somebody to come and destroy your life for kicks and spread it on social media?

Yes, I was always worried about censorship, but I know what savagery humans are capable of and without civilization it always ends in the same darkness. Google have no choice. They have to find a way to maintain civilization on their servers the same as governments have to in the real world.

The technology necessitates a response. If we want a safe place to do business and have civilized interactions we have to maintain some kind of law and order. Humanity so easily can become a beast.

I'm going to tell you off now: What on earth are you doing trying to find "truth" on YouTube or anywhere else on the internet? All I look for on the internet is a well priced pair of Salomon hiking boots that are cheaper than the shops or some obscure 80s music video. The internet has its limits. All media requires some kind of monitoring. Unchecked it could have and is already having some serious consequences.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Have you even checked to see if your favorite uploaders already use those alternatives?

Yes I have and a very small fraction of them do. There are dozens of people I follow on YouTube and many videos I enjoy watching from people I've never seen before. Of course I also watch videos on other platforms every now and then but the reality is most content gets uploaded to YouTube. We wont just give in and leave, although I'm sure you'd love that, we will continue to resist and use their platform against them.

I'm old enough to remember when Webcrawler's search engine, MP3.com, Myspace, and AOL (w/their free cds) dominated the web. They fell out of favor because users actually migrated to alternatives instead of sticking w/something they don't care for.

Yes I was around in those days too but you don't seem to understand how the world works these days. Websites like Facebook and YouTube are huge monopolies that overwhelm all their competitors and they won't simply become obsolete overnight like businesses did back when the internet was much less mature and much more volatile. They will need to step very far over the line before people care enough to boycott them.

To be blunt, it just sounds like excuses to me. Have any of you even looked into alternative search engines like Ecosia or DuckDuckGo?

I didn't discover the internet yesterday. Yes I've used DuckDuckGo and many others. However DuckDuckGo is just a secure proxy for accessing Google as far as I'm aware. Also I'm talking about YouTube specifically in this thread, they are owned by Google so that's who I'm addressing.

It's like complaining about Google while using GoogleDocs instead of some open source alternative like LibreOffice.

Except LibreOffice is the best option and offers the most functionality for free. YouTube is the best option in terms of content and probably also functionality, it's the website society has decided to use as the main video sharing platform. People have a way of migrating towards a single platform which they decide is the one we will all use most of the time. To say "just get off if you don't like the way it's run" is nonsense, I can criticize a business I've enjoyed using the service of for many years if I feel they're going down a bad path. If I feel like it's getting too bad then I will leave, don't worry about that.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Yes, my goodness.

We can't be subjected to anything that is counter to what we believe now, can we?

We want echo chambers. Anything to the contrary in our line of sight is unacceptable..

Take me for example. Anytime I see an Alex Jones video on my feed I just ignore it..... Then again, I have an allergy to bull$h!t fake news.







....... I'm sorry guys........ Alex Jones is real news, just like Breitbart.

We want echo chambers. Anything to the contrary in our line of sight is unacceptable..

Guys the point here is not the desire for an echo chamber... it's for an equal representation of both arguments, not to be "redirected" to a list of propaganda videos which are the truth according to the subjective opinion of some people. YouTube has already been showing debunking videos in search results and in the suggested video list for many years, I know this because I've been watching conspiracy videos on YouTube for many years, and I nearly always watch the debunking videos to see which side of the debate I think is right.

This is clearly an attempt to push a certain opinion as the only valid truth and label one side as wrong... that is an echo chamber. If I wanted that I'd go join Facebook. Just look at what they do to censor what they consider fake news, you have liberal echo chambers on scales never seen before occurring because of it. People block other people who don't share their opinion and they only share information which will conform their ideology.

Anytime I see an Alex Jones video on my feed I just ignore it

I did the same for many years... in fact here's a post I made last year:

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: TrueAmerican

I remember I time when Alex Jones was mocked any time he was mentioned on ATS, now he's the go-to local news guy. This is not a true awakening to the truth. This is like when I first started getting into conspiracy theories, I'd believe a lot of the crap I read without looking deep enough into the facts. I feel like the population is starting to reach that first juvenile stage of awakening. Let me make it clear I'd rather Trump be elected than Hillary, but that doesn't mean I think either option is sane, they are both highly corrupt and "outsider" is the last word I would use to describe either one of them.

Trump may say things that go against certain aspects of the status quo, and I respect him for that, but I'm sorry to inform you he's tightly connected with important players, he's not the smartest guy on Earth, he lacks humility and instead employs American exceptionalism as a modus operandi, he lacks scientific understanding, he is extremely stubborn and always thinks he is right even when clearly wrong, he has imperialistic and authoritarian tendencies, etc, etc, etc. If people were really awake they would realize that the whole 2 party system is rigged and it has them more polarized than ever before.

Pretty shocking stuff coming from a "brainwashed" guy like me right? You know what has changed since I wrote that post and now? I've seen Trump tear apart fake news propaganda and I've seen the "deep state" go after him relentlessly and I now see how he could actually be a good thing for the world despite being a fool. I'm willing to admit when I could have been a bit wrong about something. I'm not saying I suddenly like Trump as a person, you don't need to like a person for them to be good at their job.

Also I still find Alex Jones to be a rambling idiot a lot of the time but I also find myself watching his channel more and more as he has on interesting guests and as he expands his crew with people like Paul Joseph Watson. I still believe he gives conspiracy theorists a bad name and I think that's mostly why he's allowed to exist, but I also think most people are able to see past some of the stupid things he does just like Trump, and they realize he's a bit of a meme and they embrace the comedic side of it, even Alex himself seems to embrace the meme.

The "algorithm" isn't anything more than a banned word list really. The system is very stupid though and always has been. I watch a few comic book review channels and one has learned that if he puts the word "Kill" in his title such as "Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe" he gets flagged so he's had to move to the alternative "Deadpool Unalives the Marvel Universe". It's such a stupid system.

I've had my own personal art and gameplay videos flagged for music and imagery. No CocaCola you don't own the rights to every polar bear image in the world and no Big Music corp you don't own that .5 second audio clip that some poor bastard just worked his heart out on and released the song for free.

The other aspect that sucks about this is that the people who make actual videos about things get screwed on the monetary side. Use anything that could be construed as a company entity and any money you would have made off of the video automatically gets the rights changed from you to the corp. While in some cases such as posting a full music video, song, movie, commercial what have you I can understand but a 10-second soundbite will cause it.

I don't have a problem with rules generally, but when they're enforced by an ignorant AI it's frustrating. I know they do it due to the mass amounts of data that gets uploaded in an hour, but damn are they throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

a reply to: Revolution9

I've probably only seen one terrorist video on YouTube in my life, it was the beheading video that popped up a few years ago which everyone was talking about. Also I'm pretty sure that sort of violent extremist stuff is already against YouTube's TOS and that video would have been removed long ago, videos like that have to be uploaded to places like liveleak. This new plan of action is focused on dealing with videos which don't violate their TOS's but contain something deemed controversial by YouTube, and as the evidence clearly shows these plans aren't just restricted to extremist content, there is some political motivation going on here.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

The larger issue is that the majority of people visit just this handful of social media sites with the bulk of their online time, and they're all being turned into the same echo chamber. And the echo chamber effect en masse is already a disaster from before they started this BS.

I suggest you look up some psychology studies on echo chamber effects.

I imagine leftists wouldnt mind too much their team gets the hive mind status, but what this is going to cause is even furrther radicalization and antifa maniac types and it will harm you long term.

a reply to: Ohanka

How is it a monopoly when there are alternative video sites? Their continued dominance is literally the fault of people like you who supposedly are tired of that corporation's practices, yet won't ween themselves off of them. It's not like they're the sole makers of some cancer treatment drug; there are alternatives for all of their products, some of which are better, allow more freedom, don't keep permanent logs of their users' info, etc.

Some alternatives are obviously less popular right now, but that's because the people who claim they don't like Google products won't back up their complaints with actions. Why should Google listen to any of your complaints when they know that you won't do anything about it? I don't like Facebook's policies so I stopped using Facebook. I don't like the direction Firefox has gone in, so I stopped using it. I started using Blender for my video editing because I got tired of the shenanigans with other companies.

I always hear people complain about "sheeple" & how the "masses" follow everything our corporate leaders feed them. Yet rarely does anyone ever try to change those habits, much less become a part of the solution. However I was raised to become the change I seek, hence why I back up my complaints & suspicions with actions. But whatever, it's no skin off my back.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I suggest you look up some psychology studies on echo chamber effects.

And I suggest you look more ytube vids to swallow their content without any critical thought whatsoever. I mean... that's precisely what you think "lefties" are doing, right?



More on topic: I've just watched "the day after disclosure" on ytube and didn't get one debunk-vid in my suggestions. Yeah, simple as that: not happening on my end of the keyboard.

But I do use ccleaner and other search engines than google, you should give that a try.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Yes I have and a very small fraction of them do. There are dozens of people I follow on YouTube and many videos I enjoy watching from people I've never seen before. Of course I also watch videos on other platforms every now and then but the reality is most content gets uploaded to YouTube. We wont just give in and leave, although I'm sure you'd love that, we will continue to resist and use their platform against them.

For the record, I don't care if you keep using Google products or not. I'm not one of their shareholders, so I don't profit one bit from your actions with them. I just get amused when I see people complain about petty things & voluntary things that they can easily change.

Yes I was around in those days too but you don't seem to understand how the world works these days. Websites like Facebook and YouTube are huge monopolies that overwhelm all their competitors and they won't simply become obsolete overnight like businesses did back when the internet was much less mature and much more volatile. They will need to step very far over the line before people care enough to boycott them.

There's a saying about people who make assumptions. I have a youtube channel with around 100 videos on it. But I also distribute my stuff through other outlets because I don't want to become dependent on any specific company. But please continue trying to preach to me about how the world works now lol.

Also, why does it matter if they become obsolete or not? The point is to get the content you claim you want without their interference. If you can get all of the content you want from other sites, then why does Google's success or failure matter (unless you're a shareholder, of course)?

Except LibreOffice is the best option and offers the most functionality for free. YouTube is the best option in terms of content and probably also functionality, it's the website society has decided to use as the main video sharing platform. People have a way of migrating towards a single platform which they decide is the one we will all use most of the time. To say "just get off if you don't like the way it's run" is nonsense, I can criticize a business I've enjoyed using the service of for many years if I feel they're going down a bad path. If I feel like it's getting too bad then I will leave, don't worry about that.

So this is a popularity contest to you? You only use products if large amounts of other people use it first? I guess we really won't come to an understanding because I can't understand that logic at all. I use products that meet my needs, regardless of what other people like. That's why it's easy for me to simply refuse to do business with companies that I disagree with. But I guess everyone's not built like that? To each their own, I guess. now i'm fighting the urge to link some semi-relevant youtube video just for kicks & giggles

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I suggest you look up some psychology studies on echo chamber effects.

Apropos of nothing, this is the funniest line I've read on ATS this year.

Well done.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I just get amused when I see people complain about petty things & voluntary things that they can easily change.

You fail to see the bigger picture, the issue here is not petty, it's about large scale psychological warfare.

So this is a popularity contest to you? You only use products if large amounts of other people use it first? I guess we really won't come to an understanding because I can't understand that logic at all. I use products that meet my needs, regardless of what other people like.

No I consciously try to avoid dumb trends and fads, it's why I never joined Facebook, why I don't own an iPhone, etc. The difference with video sharing platforms is that the amount of content depends on the amount of people using it. Obviously I'm going to want to use which ever site has the most content, and which ever has the most content will also happen to have the most users. The point is exactly that YouTube meets my needs the best of all.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Given the greater context of that line with regards to this thread it's ... well. Let's just say it's a very amusing collection of "coincidences" right there..

I already said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here...

I find it hilariously ironic that a company which preaches diversity to others also tries to act as a monopoly for itself.

Looking forward to the rise of alternatives so Guggle can sit in its own little echo chamber.

I have a feeling that in the future they may regret their suicide business.

Youtube/Google, like EVERYTHING else, has a ToS (Terms of Service). And as long as nobody is breaking said ToS, then they seriously need to butt-out of what people post/upload/watch. Like some "hall monitor" or babysitter of people's FREE SPEECH. Again, if their ToS aren't being broken, then there's NO reason for them to butt in, PERIOD. Unless they LIKE discriminating?

I've seeing this for at least a year. there is nothing 'real' with social media and the internet there is always a middle man. If one searches on google one uses their servers. YT'ers that are 'controversial' loose subscribers and get demonitized. YT / Google acts like a police agent. There used to be free speech on the internet. Well there still is free speech but also manipulation of it on so many levels that freedom is at stake.

a reply to: Kromlech

Poor business decisions.
If I ran a business I'd sell to everybody and anybody.
I wouldnt jeopardise a percentage of my income by trying to only appeal to a certain demographic.

....gimme ya money!!!!

Dbl soz

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

there is a Very important war being fought silently in the background that people are not paying attention too.

Prior to the Internet the MSM,lobbyist, MIC,Gov't,GOP,and DNC had full control to warp the minds of people with one way controlled communications. They controlled what the people heard, watched, and believed via tv,paper, and radio. Then the internet comes and the little guy had a voice just as loud as them and the opportunity to call out their BS.

What google is doing is concerning and people will say just say use another product and you can for a while , but more and more alternative engines and website will have to fall in line or be restricted by traffic since net neutrality will be gone and majority don't have ISP alternative options.

The MSM,lobbyist, MIC,Gov't,GOP,and DNC are trying to get back FULL control of the people via methods such as google is implementing and removing net neutrality principles .