POLITICS: Critics Unite to Pan Bush Budget

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I read today that this budget doesn't even include the cost of the war...
he is wanted an 80 billion line of credit for that... to spend as needed.

What's another 80 billion dollars? A trifling sum.

This is the most transparent lie of the lot, placing the taxpayers' money and lives to be squandered into a special emergency float.

Exercise: Try tracking the spoils of war through the administration's crony companies... the current price of gas in Iraq is an interesting start. No taxpayers anywhere see anything out of that price gouging and profiteering.

That $80 billion outside the budget is just the tip of the iceberg. ...People don't seem to realize that the budget is just a general game plan - the plays change when the players get on the field, and start running with the ball...


Picking up on your hint Avatar:

Halliburton Wins Again

Halliburton in Iraq fuel costs row


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SS can be fixed by just rasing the age when benifits pay back to 67-69 depending on the economy. No need to cut benifits or invest in the stock market. If the stock market was safe they would have used it when the Social security program started. The trust funds used for social secuiry are the safest investments in the world besides the IOUs you have in your wallet

The crisis only appears when you use worse case scenario figures.

I am suprised no one mentioned the potentional of Amtrack going bankrupt if the Bush budget goes thruogh and Amtrack losing it's subsidy

Originally posted by Jehosephat
SS can be fixed by just rasing the age when benifits pay back to 67-69 depending on the economy. No need to cut benifits or invest in the stock market. If the stock market was safe they would have used it when the Social security program started. The trust funds used for social secuiry are the safest investments in the world besides the IOUs you have in your wallet

The crisis only appears when you use worse case scenario figures.

My problem with Social Security proposals stems from what I know about fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD), Mad Cow and other prion diseases. ...What's happening is that more and more people are being disabled by "subclinical" infections at younger and younger ages - but still living for decades longer. ...I suspect even the worst case scenarios don't deal with the actual harsh reality.



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Soficrow,
why keep up the smokesceen?

Bush is President. Point your finger wherever you want, Bush is the Commander in Chief. Bush is responsible.

Yes in the ULTIMATE sense he is responsible as he does sign the budget for use....but WHO put this plan together for his review? Only pointing the finger to Bush alievates ANY responsibillity that congress has for the budget...and this is where i take exception to your narrow bush only blame game.

Sofi says,

Bush has a majority in Congress and the Senate. His boys do what he tells them to do - and everyone makes it happen the way the big Bush wants.

Again you try to pass the buck on responsibillity here....Congress is responsible to THE CITIZENS that elected them as representatives, NOT the president. While party aliegance plays too much of a role here...HOLD THE PEOPLE YOU ELECTED TO OFFICE RESPONSIBLE and stop passing the buck.

It's Bush's job to identify the nations' problems, crises and needs - and then to deal with them. Preferably effectively.

again NO BLAME FOR CONGRESS?
and no blame for citizen APATHY for holding them accountable?
just point to the top of the pyramid and forget about the base eh?

Yeah the budget/ deficit is a problem, but i find your blame game to be insane...there is plenty of blame to go around.

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Caz Apparently you do not understand the process. Bush developed his budget proposal. NOW - it goes to Congress.

Everyone please - write your representatives in Congress. Stop the rape and pillage of our nation. Before it's too late.



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Sofi,
As I have a duel degree in poly sci AND broadcast journalism, im VERY aware of the process involved here, which is why ive been critical of some of your posts...NOT because the topics are not important, but because of the zealous slant that is apparent.
However, you said,

Everyone please - write your representatives in Congress. Stop the rape and pillage of our nation. Before it's too late.

DING DING DING...we have a winner here!
It seems your getting it too now eh?
Why didnt you say this to start instead of trying to assign blame to one person?

The President can only sign/reject the budget that congress will assemble for him to review...The president can ask for the moon in his budget, but still congress will submit what it feels is prudent to him.
the congress is directly responsible to the citizens they represent.
where is the blame then here really?

Sofi, i know ive been seemingly hounding you latley, its not personal.
You do raise GOOD topics for discussion,
BUT,
I find too much slant to them and as part of my devotion to "deny ignorance", i have to point out where i see a lack of objectivity.
Keep bringing up good topics, just try to be more objective and less one sided and misdirected.

Im sure this thread on the budget will continue to nitt pick individule items back and forth...this is good, and im sure congress will do the same.
BUT
why must this be done with such one sided BIAS?

Originally posted by CazMedia
Sofi,
As I have a duel degree in poly sci AND broadcast journalism, im VERY aware of the process involved here,

Then you know that Bush created the war in Iraq and dragged the nation into a pit of stinking debt. ...Sure, Congress needs to approve BUSH's budget proposal - but he owns the majority - AND he's already maxed-out all the cards so there's almost no way out. But as you say, you have a degree in poly sci and journalism - so you know.

I on the other hand do not. I am sick and a single mother. By your terms, and your President's terms, I have NO value, nothing important to contribute, and no right to be heard.

My own opinion differs.

which is why ive been critical of some of your posts...NOT because the topics are not important, but because of the zealous slant that is apparent.

MY slant? Excuse me? IMO - I have seen NO evidence whatsoever that you might possibly have a single microscopic objective bone in your body.

Everyone please - write your representatives in Congress. Stop the rape and pillage of our nation. Before it's too late.

DING DING DING...we have a winner here!
It seems your getting it too now eh?
Why didnt you say this to start instead of trying to assign blame to one person?

BUSH is pushing a corporate agenda - he has funneled TRILLIONS of dollars straight into corporate accounts - without ANY respect, regard or concern for any ordinary Americans, or the health of the nation.

Sofi, i know ive been seemingly hounding you latley, its not personal.

Of course not. It never is.

But why don't YOU go write a 40 page legal document, fully substantiated and referenced up the wazooo?

You do raise GOOD topics for discussion,

BUT,
I find too much slant to them and as part of my devotion to "deny ignorance",

X infinity.

why must this be done with such one sided BIAS?

Must be residual effects from the neo-Nazi BUSH-BULLY infestation.



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Sofi says,

Then you know that Bush created the war in Iraq and dragged the nation into a pit of stinking debt.

A fair enough statement.
This view implies that you do not approve of the war, ok you dont have to . (I do however)
BUT
lets say that 75% of America was behind it, wouldnt it still stink to have to be in debt? Even if there was NO doubt that war was nessisary, incurring the debt would STILL have taken place, and would stink.
It seems your issue isnt really the debt, its the "Bush war" that your having issues with. JUST SAY IT, why mask your displeasure with him by sugar coating your argument and cloaking it in side bar issues?

Sofi says,

Sure, Congress needs to approve BUSH's budget proposal - but he owns the majority

your 1/2 right....Me, You and all the citizens that elected those dogs to congress own them, yet we're too lazy and apathetic to find out our rights (meaning how to "control"/remove/influence them) and actually put forth effort to do so.
YES the party politics exisists, but only because the citizenry allows this.

Sofi bemoans her lot in life,

By your terms, and your President's terms, I have NO value, nothing important to contribute, and no right to be heard.

Please cut and past quotes where he or I have ever said as much.
need i cut and paste all the times ive asked for your clarifications? You mean like the 1/2 dozen times on the other buget related thread you started where i showed this allegation to be WAY false too?

Sofi brings it on,

I have seen NO evidence whatsoever that you might possibly have a single microscopic objective bone in your body.

This is rich...of course you cant see what im saying, you need to take off those BIASED blinders youve got on and see that instead of wrongly blaming BUSH for things, Im blaming Congress (who really controls the purse strings) and the apathy of the citizens that arent DOING something to hold the government accountable for their actions. This includes your favorite target President Bush.
If holding EVERYONE accountable isnt objective enough for you, i dont know what would be. Perhaps i should limit my criticism to only "get bush" like you eh? Everyone else gets a free pass.

Sofi levels another accusation,

BUSH is pushing a corporate agenda - he has funneled TRILLIONS of dollars straight into corporate accounts - without ANY respect, regard or concern for any ordinary Americans, or the health of the nation.

im willing to hear where this comes from, im open to consider TANGIBLE, non-emotive, and relavent facts in support of this contention,
yet,
im also aware that we are engrained in a GLOBAL economic situation...one where boarders are crossed by big corporations, ones i generally agree dont have the peoples interest at heart EVER, and i AGREE with you are a serious threat to freedoms. We cant survive without this tho, so we the people are going to have to put aside partizan bickering and figure out how to hold these nonelected entities to some accountabillity...government is the mechanism for this, yet they have us all bickering back and forth over Bush to mobilize and turn some political screws. im in the same boat as you.

Originally posted by CazMedia

im also aware that we are engrained in a GLOBAL economic situation...one where boarders are crossed by big corporations, ones i generally agree dont have the peoples interest at heart EVER, and i AGREE with you are a serious threat to freedoms. We cant survive without this tho, so we the people are going to have to put aside partizan bickering and figure out how to hold these nonelected entities to some accountabillity...government is the mechanism for this, yet they have us all bickering back and forth over Bush to mobilize and turn some political screws. im in the same boat as you.

You say, "so we the people are going to have to put aside partizan bickering and figure out how to hold these nonelected entities to some accountabillity." - BUT - you work energetically to reduce every critical discussion to "partisan bickering" - and ensure that it cannot proceed to problem-solving.


Caz - IMO - you are not denying ignorance - you are pushing Bush propaganda - and trying to silence the opposition.

On the very few occasions that you bother to cite references - you link to government paper or government paid "journalists - this government has been found guilty on several occasions of using tax payers money for "covert propaganda." 'Nuff said.

IMO - you use bad sources - when you bother to provide links at all, which isn't often. Then you play the 'devil's advocate' I'm here to 'deny ignorance' and offer a 'critique' game. What a pile of bull puckey. Harassment and red herrings. Standard strategy for the neo-nazi Bush-Bullies tho - practice ABUSE, call it critique and debunking.

I'm curious - did they teach you crowd control and brainwashing in poly sci, or did you have to go to a special school?



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Originally posted by soficrow
Everyone please - write your representatives in Congress. Stop the rape and pillage of our nation. Before it's too late.

I dont have to, Russ Fiendgold and Herb kohl are both democracts, and Fiengold has become very outspoken

Bush Didn't seem to account for the Trillion+ dollars that has gone missing from the defense budget over the last 10 years...over 200 Billion in the last 3 years alone.....theyh admitted it that the funds were missing...I will find that article and send it to you.

Originally posted by Jehosephat

Originally posted by soficrow
Everyone please - write your representatives in Congress. Stop the rape and pillage of our nation. Before it's too late.

I dont have to, Russ Fiendgold and Herb kohl are both democracts, and Fiengold has become very outspoken

Good to hear - but they do need to know you support them.



Cas - thanks. You motivated me to write the following.



Alert: Bush-Bully Attacks on the Rise


What is a Bush-Bully Attack?


Hiding behind the ats 'deny ignorance' motto, the Bush-Bully attacks any piece, post or person that criticizes President Bush - whether directly or by implication - and camouflages the attack as a "critique." Bush-Bullies claim that any criticism of Bush, his administration or policies is "Bush-Bashing." Any criticism you make, direct or implied - will be attacked as "biased," "lacking objectivity" and "unsubstantiated."


The goal is to silence criticisms of Bush.

Bush-Bullies have several attack strategies. Most common, the Bush-Bullies circle, nipping at your limbs, teasing you with red herrings, trying to make you hemorraghe useless references and links. They often pick up on some small aside in your post, and demand "at least three" cross-referenced links to substantiate the statement. If you take the bait, they keep you running around in circles until the whole point of your post or thread is lost.

Generally, Bush-Bullies attack in packs: taking turns, trying to wear you down and make you feel stupid, ignorant and incompetent. If someone makes you feel bad about yourself, it's usually Bush-Bully Abuse.

A good critique makes you think, and helps you recognize that the world is a bigger, more interesting place. It gives you wings. Bush-Bully Abuse tries to take away your voice, and silence you.



Why are the Bush-Bullies in a Feeding Frenzy?


Several reasons:

* Bush just put his budget proposal before Congress, a thinly veiled Eugenics program.

* He needs another military offensive to justify more corporate pork.

* He's building a privatized, robotized military and police force - and paying for it with your tax dollars.

* He's pushing unregulated free market biotechnology internationally and domestically - very dangerous stuff.

* He's hiding the fact that infectious disease is epidemic in America and causing massive early disabilities - and trying to dismantle Social Security and strip health supports before everyone finds out.

...The list goes on.


For the Bush-fronted corporate agenda to play - people need to be ignorant, and criticisms need to be silenced. This is a very important time, strategically, for the corporate-Bush offensive.

So the Bush-Bullies are out in force. Call it the Bush-Bully Patrol or maybe, the Bush-Bully Brown-shirt Brigade. They're here, and they're out for blood. Be prepared.



What's the Best Defense?


If you are attacked, realize that you're on to something hot. Don't let them distract you. Make sure you have links and references for the main points of your argument. If a Bush-Bully demands "proofs" on side issues - tell him to go write his own 40-page fully referenced legal document.

Name the assault. Tell your abuser he's a Bush-Bully. Tell him and the world you won't tolerate his Bush-Bully Abuse. ...Abuse is an act of cowardice - and abusers usually stop when they're called on their actions. Abusers need your silence. Don't be silenced.

Use your voice. America needs you.



Alert: Bush-Bully Attacks on the Rise

Soficrow,
Nice of you to STEAL my point about accountabillity, which I posted on this thread first!
As seen first on my post #1158052 of this thread,
Oh heck go back people and read for yourself where I pointed this out BEFORE Sofi co-opted this into her argument in her post AFTER i said it...

Its ok really, at least your getting it now, and not just able to focus your "anti-Bush" zeal as youd like to...why?
BECAUSE I SPOKE THE TRUTH, unlike you and others attempt to do by ONLY looking to blame Bush. Rock on, embrace the truth. Im just glad the light is revealing things for you.

Im also dissapointed at Sofi's innabillity to do more to defend her positions than to double post her 4 paragraph attack against me, and not the info im posting or the questions i ask. Did you write that here first or on your other Bush budget bashing thread? You know, the one with the first sentance thats a bold faced LIE.
For those wanting to see this Lie, look here
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Ohh sofi, was posting that link trying to silence you somehow?
Im sorry if you didnt want me to point out more of your views so that others can see them....

ALERT: BASELESS BUSH BASHING ON THE RISE

Hiding behind the ats 'deny ignorance' motto, the Bush bashers attack any piece, post , and usually the person not the points, whether directly or by implication - and camouflages the attack as "fighting oppression".
Any points you show them, direct or implied, will be attacked as being "nazi" "neo-con" "NWO" or other such devicive label.

The goal is to silence the use of truth.

Bush Bashers have several strategies, most common is the side tracking of an issue by weakly attempting to link something to their position....other common tactics involve the use or red herrings to misdirect your attentions;
tugging at heartstrings to only evoke an emotional instead of rational responce, and refusal to back up their allegations with anything substantionated prefering instead to try and turn the table away from their weak points to blame the person asking them for clarifications.
If you fall into their trap, they will keep your mind closed to alternative ways of thinking...preffering that you never really see reality and only live on things they cant/wont back up with substance, until the average person is hopelessly lost.

Generally speaking, Bush Bashers are drawn in like flies, swarming around in annoying groups wearing you down and trying to demonize you by applying negative lables and projecting their percieved bias onto you.
If someone makes you feel bad about yourself, its usually because you reccognise some truth about yourself that someone else is pointing out.

A good critique makes you think, and helps you recognize that the world is a bigger, more interesting place. It gives you wings. Bush Bashers try to persuade you with feel good positions with little substance.

WHATS THE BEST DEFENCE?

If you are attacked, realize that they are attacking YOU instead of the issues you raise either because they cant support their wild positions, or because they are too arrogant to admit a mistake and move on.
Make sure you have links and references for the main points of your argument, even tho when presented with this information, Bush Bashers will only strike harder at the messenger, and not the facts presented. Stay Calm. If a Bush Basher wont offer anything substantial to back their allegations, kindly remind them that their arguments credibillity is in question and allow them another oportunity to explain how they arrived at the questionable conclusions they expouse.

Call out these fallicies. Tell the Basher they arent providing more that hype. Tell them and all who read the threadyou wont tolorate misrepresentations of reality. Bashing is an act of desperation, and Bashers usually dissapear once confronted with factual evidence.
Dont be silenced!

Use your voice AND your brains...America needs you.

OOhhh sofi, 2 can certantly play this soap opera drama style, I hope you liked my parody of your WHINE FEST! You know, the one that basically calls people that disagree with you names and tries to demonize them.

Lets look at just ONE example of what im talking about here on this bash fest of a thread.

Aymbt says,

Bush Didn't seem to account for the Trillion+ dollars that has gone missing from the defense budget over the last 10 years...over 200 Billion in the last 3 years alone.....theyh admitted it that the funds were missing...I will find that article and send it to you.

Let me do the math here
a trillion $ over 10 years....
bush in office for 4 years,
6 years where bush wasnt in office
YET HE"S REPONSIBLE FOR THE TIME HE WASNT PRESIDENT EH?
thats SOME kind of new math in use....
that is a perfect example of a UNTRUE BUSH BASH!

Look at the math here again
a trillion missing,
200 mill over 3 years...heck lets say for good measure we blame bush for 300 Mill over 4 years....
that still leaves THE MAJORITY of the missing $$ about 700 mill
unacountable BEFORE bush was president, yet he is to blame eh?

Umm what about the dept of defence that was given this $ by congress?
what about congress and previous administrations that must have known about this huge amount of missing $$ BEFORE Bush got here?

The swarm of bashers is like flies on stink in here, and their not even trying to be subtle...
where is my can of RAID when i need it?

i am not bashing bush...or trying to hold him accountable for things that happened before he came to power...but....still th fact that it is money stilling missing...even in part of his watch.....ok lets take away lets say 1/2 a trillion...for giggles of clinton....thats still $500,000,000,000 that is alot of 0's if you ask me that just seemed to go poof into someone's pocket.

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The US is in BIG trouble economically. The interest on the debt alone is Billion$ every day. We're all talking about accountability, responsibility and priorities.

IMO - the priorities established in Bush's budget proposal are dead wrong.

We're looking at making big government bigger to protect "corporate rights" - and pulling near everything that supports civil rights.

The questions I'm asking myself are:

"Who are we, really?"

"Where are we headed?"

"Is that where we really want to go?"



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Good lord!

Turns out there's a whole thread devoted to the fact that I didn't provide a reference regarding my statement that there are soldiers on Food Stamps. I had NO idea this was such a hot topic!

I ignored FredT's question because I naturally assumed it was the usual Bush-Bully harrassment. I am so SORRY! I honestly thought the Food Stamp Soldiers' plight was common knowledge.


"Twenty dollars a month is a lot of dough when a young enlisted person has a family barely making it on food stamps."

Medicare set to become political hot potato

"A lottery in which 40 soldiers in Iraq become millionaires, thus allowing them to get off food stamps."

Bush puts on $40M party hat


The Food Stamp Soldier story is an old one - and conservatives have a long history of trying to 'debunk' it.

"Last week's Time (still on newsstands) makes the latest attempt to debunk the idea that there are lots of soldiers on food stamps, one of John McCain's - and now Al Gore's - staple complaints. It's just a "cheap applause line," Time's Mark Thompson argues. There are only 6,300 soldiers on stamps, he notes, down from 11,900 in 1995.

But wait a minute: Three paragraphs later Thompson reports that a change ordered by Secretary of Defense William Cohen in the treatment of housing subsidies "could double the number of soldiers on food stamps." Gee, wouldn't that put the figure at 12,600, up from 1995. Thompson's piece debunks itself halfway through."

Food Stamp Soldiers: Time Self-Debunks



.There. I trust that settles that significant point.

My God Soficrow I could have answer that one, yes foods stamps has been available for military families since I was a young military wife, and also we can qualify for the other plan the one for children's mothers to be I can not spell the name of it, it sounds like wek.

You know is families with many children that a low ranking soldier will not be able to feed on his own.

We also have family services and many officers wife sponsored programs for soldiers in need.

Bush's budget will not pass intact. Bush is going to be a lame duck president his second term. I bet that the budget ends up being biger than what Bush has proposed.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Bush's budget will not pass intact. Bush is going to be a lame duck president his second term. I bet that the budget ends up being biger than what Bush has proposed.

I pretty much agree - but the problem is, Congress is stuck with a huge pile of maxed-out credit cards. How the heck are we gonna keep going, pay down the debt, AND keep what's good about this country?

Hey, I found $150,000 that was spent last year, that most probably wouldn't mind if they didn't spend next year...

Congress Funded $150,000 for GRAMMY Foundation
Pork Barrel Spending Isn’t Music to Taxpayers’ Ears

www.house.gov...

These people throw their list of priorities out the window early in the budget debate process I guess....