Consequences of looking into the past...

I want to credit rant for getting me started on this by mentioning the matrix. He mentioned living a lie, and other such familiar ideas that come from that movie. It gave me an idea as to something I should search for. I found it, and to my suprise, I am not the only one to come to this conclusion. Please read further.

We all know that the bible certainly indicates a young Earth in the range of about 6000 years old, not to mention the fact that it all (including the entire universe) was created in what was specifically described as 6 earth days with one day of rest. I want to point out some things that indicate that this may not be the case. I also want to point out what the consequences are if you ignore it, and still claim that the Earth is 6000 years young.

In 1987, a rare occurace was visible to everyone. (Some of you may even remember) An explosion in space, clearly visible to the naked eye. Thats very rare. Febuary 23 and 24th of 1987 were the dates. Now as we all know, looking into space is kinda like looking into the past (even those who wont admit it). Light has a speed, and it takes time relative to us to get here. From stars, it sometimes takes large amounts of time, such as this case. You see, the star was named Sanduleak 69 202. It had been observed, and studied like any other. A distance was established. The star was app. 160,000 light years away. That means that on Febuary 23rd, 1987, we saw a moment long past. This star actually exploded 160,000 years ago.

The reality of this situation is simple. This means that the universe is most definitely older than the Bible claims. If it is not, then some weird things would need to be the case. This is where Rants reference to the matrix comes in. If the universe is truly the age the bible describes, then it must have been created....with Sanduleak 69 202 already exploded. Simply put, 160,000 years ago just wouldn't exist, so things needed to be made up to account for the non-existent. So, the observations of Sanduleak 69 202 that had been going on for nearly 2 decades, were of something that never existed, an intact star. In simple words for christians, God created a false image of a star that never existed. The light beam comming from the star would have had to be encoded with information of a non-existing intact star for a very small percentage of the light beam, along with images of an explosion that never occured, and several "hundreds of thousands of years" of information regarding material distribution which we are still observing today, that are merely illusions. To be frank, it will take nearly 154,000 years to see what this star actually looked like when the universe was created.

What does this mean? Well, if you are christian, it means that the stars we see today, are nearly all false images of things that never existed. Part of an illusion. If you honestly subscribe to this matrix like scenerio, there is more. Who is to say at this point, that the universe was not created 3000 years ago, just a thousand years before Jesus, and all the biblical information, and earthly fossils are fake indications of a made up past that never existed. Who is to say that you did not come into existence this very second, and all of your memories, as well as science and advancements, are made up. Everything could be fake. Your lost loved ones may never have truly existed, as well as the greif that you remeber so vividly. It could all be a lie. The birth of a child, your birth even. Just figments of your imagination, programmed by God for purposes unknown.

How can a christian work around this? I am curious to see what they have to say, (prediction is a lot of nothing). I guess I will see you back in the Matrix....thanks for the idea rant, even though you didn't know you gave it to me.

Honestly it sounds like an insane idea.

If nthing existed around me was true but was created by God for some reason, than there is no truth.


if thats true than you don't exist seapeople, but your only a devil tempting my faith, as vise versa I don't exist to you and
im only tempting your faith.


I exist and you exist, you know yu exist because you have seen every moment of your life as have I. If the insane idea of a matrix is true than why not
abuse it? why have respect for human person's who don't exist? Thats what love is, is respect for otherhuman persons.


If you repect anybody seapeople, which I suppose you do, then this theory ceases to exist.


But if everybody is created as an illusion, and you believe it, then respect does not exist. You cant respect nothing.



So yea, I believe that movie is the idea of satan, and is completely insane.




About the star, Ive never heard of that star or the explosion.



peace.

Well,

I guess you totally missed the point of that post truth. I DON"T BELIEVE THAT MY PAST IS NON EXISTANT. I only wanted opinions on whether or not you did...

Read it again, and pay attention to what I said. I said, that the scenereo I provided was not possible to CHRISTIANS unless you say that our past was made up. The scenereo however did occur. I am not christian. I don't have to make up lame excuses as to why everything in the means of science is wrong when it indicates a universe and earth billions of years in age. I accept the fact that when the star exploded (which of course you never heard of) into a nebulae, that it was an image of the past that DID OCCUR. I never once indicated that I believed it did not. I only indicated that if CHRISTIANS were to hold onto their foolish belief in a 6000 year old earth, then what we see in space would have to be lies from God.

And by the way, I am not sure whether your post was an attempt to make me look foolish or not. In any case, if you have not heard of the star...do what christians typically do not do. RESEARCH IT! In the mean time, please don't try to insinuate information I have given you is false. Rather, go out and prove me false. If this is not what you were doing, I apologize.

Hold on now. I do not think you hold this as true and wasnt implying that at all. I was talking in terms of this theory not
saying you believed it. I was just trying to say how insane this idea is and how crazy it really sounds.


" RESEARCH IT "

Give me a break, I don't know evrything. I can'tresearch something I had no clue of.


I will research it now though.

"And yet firmly implanted in my mind is the long-standing opinion that there is an omnipotent God who made me the kind of creature that I am. How do I know that he has not brought it about that there is no earth, no sky, no extended thing, no shape, no size, no place, while at the same time ensuring that all these things appear to me to exist just as they do now? What is more, just as I consider that others sometimes go astray in cases where they think they have the most perfect knowledge, how do I know that God has not brought it about that I too go wrong every time I add two and three or count the sides of a square, or in some even simpler matter, if that is imaginable? But perhaps God would not have allowed me to be deceived in this way, since he is said to be supremely good; [...] I will suppose therefore that not God, who is supremely good and the source of truth, but rather some malicious demon of the utmost power and cunning has employed all his energies in order to deceive me. I shall think that the sky, the air, the earth, colours, shapes, sounds and all external things are merely the delusions of dreams which he has devised to ensnare my judgment."

sorry it just reminded me and had a little bit of relevance to the subject

I cannot believe what you said! To get to your 'little idea' about "everything" may be fake, made up or an illusion, shows you have lost faith, or, never had any!
Consider this, to say the earth was created 6000 years ago is wrong anyways. It was created millions of years ago, well, just like Jesus says 144,000 saints would be caught up with him, does not mean that literally that there will only be 144,000 saints, as Jesus did not talk in numbers as in the millions.
The earth could and I believe was created 6 million years ago. A day with the lord is as a thousand years, could mean a day with the lord is as million years.
All the things we know for certain, that existed on this earth, as in dinosaurs, cave-man, and so on, did not happen in 6,000 years, but 6,000,000. Maybe 60,000 years?
This is the reason America is going to be doomed, just as sodom and gommorrah was! For spitting out untruuths about God's creation.
To put people in jail, or take them to court because they were saying the 'gospel' in the streets is wrong , wrong wrong! You can't talk about God in America, unless it has a purpose for Bush, or another illumani!
A U.S. federal court judge has ruled that 5 Philadelphia Christians face 47 years in prison for simply proclaiming the Gospel publicly on the streets of Philadelphia during a public demonstration of support for homosexual rights by homosexual advocates. The Christian preachers Gospel message infuriated the crowd and police were called in. They immediately arrested the Christian group for civil rights violations of the rights of homosexuals.
aoreport.com...
The October 10th incident involved eleven Christians and eight charges were filed: criminal conspiracy, possession of instruments of crime, reckless endangerment of another person, ethnic intimidation, riot, failure to disperse, disorderly conduct and obstructing highways. Only the Christians were charged, as none of the homosexual supporters who clashed with the Christians were deemed as having done anything wrong.

A December hearing reduced the defendants in the group to 4 but kept 3 felony and 5 misdemeanor charges filed. The penalties for the charges could carry a maximum of 47 years for each of the defendants. More Details here.
aoreport.com...

aoreport.com...

But he can make the satanic mark with his hand, that's ok he's the president right?
aoreport.com...
No, Bush can say he wants peace, but he wants war with peace, and has shown with his hand that he is none other than a child of satan, a follower as all the presidents are... so to say this world is imaginary, then I guess your post is too.I think you to wake up from your dream.

Oops I don't remember posting to you, must be a figment of my imagination, or your post did not even exist.


[edit on 9-2-2005 by realorritt]

[edit on 9-2-2005 by realorritt]

Originally posted by realorritt
I cannot believe what you said! To get to your 'little idea' about "everything" may be fake, made up or an illusion, shows you have lost faith, or, never had any!
Consider this, to say the earth was created 6000 years ago is wrong anyways. It was created millions of years ago, well, just like Jesus says 144,000 saints would be caught up with him, does not mean that literally that there will only be 144,000 saints, as Jesus did not talk in numbers as in the millions.
The earth could and I believe was created 6 million years ago. A day with the lord is as a thousand years, could mean a day with the lord is as million years.
All the things we know for certain, that existed on this earth, as in dinosaurs, cave-man, and so on, did not happen in 6,000 years, but 6,000,000. Maybe 60,000 years?
This is the reason America is going to be doomed, just as sodom and gommorrah was! For spitting out untruuths about God's creation.
To put people in jail, or take them to court because they were saying the 'gospel' in the streets is wrong , wrong wrong! You can't talk about God in America, unless it has a purpose for Bush, or another illumani!
A U.S. federal court judge has ruled that 5 Philadelphia Christians face 47 years in prison for simply proclaiming the Gospel publicly on the streets of Philadelphia during a public demonstration of support for homosexual rights by homosexual advocates. The Christian preachers Gospel message infuriated the crowd and police were called in. They immediately arrested the Christian group for civil rights violations of the rights of homosexuals.
aoreport.com...
The October 10th incident involved eleven Christians and eight charges were filed: criminal conspiracy, possession of instruments of crime, reckless endangerment of another person, ethnic intimidation, riot, failure to disperse, disorderly conduct and obstructing highways. Only the Christians were charged, as none of the homosexual supporters who clashed with the Christians were deemed as having done anything wrong.

A December hearing reduced the defendants in the group to 4 but kept 3 felony and 5 misdemeanor charges filed. The penalties for the charges could carry a maximum of 47 years for each of the defendants. More Details here.
aoreport.com...

aoreport.com...

But he can make the satanic mark with his hand, that's ok he's the president right?
aoreport.com...
No, Bush can say he wants peace, but he wants war with peace, and has shown with his hand that he is none other than a child of satan, a follower as all the presidents are... so to say this world is imaginary, then I guess your post is too.I think you to wake up from your dream.

Oops I don't remember posting to you, must be a figment of my imagination, or your post did not even exist.


[edit on 9-2-2005 by realorritt]

[edit on 9-2-2005 by realorritt]

my time on these forums has tought me that, there are no definates, i hope you release this one day.
holographic universe? some science indicated that the universe is just an illusion. some say that everything exsist in one point, some say that the universe is manifested in one mans mind. I dont believe in most of wat i just said yet but i dont dismiss it as a possibility. you have to release that consciencness cannot be definitivly explained. Alot of these things i believe is above our comprehension. you would have to be ignorant to plainly say *so to say this world is imaginary, then I guess your post is too.*
as some1 that writes on these forums would say *dont be so closed minded*

[edit on 12/17/2004 by cheeser]

But you both are very, very weird, ..ahem to say it nicely!
Let me know if there is life on mars, in about half an hour.

I just do not understand both of you,oh nevermind.:shk:

[edit on 9-2-2005 by realorritt]

Originally posted by realorritt
But you both are very, very weird, to say it nicely!
Let me know if there is life on mars, in about half an hour.

I just do not understand both of you,oh nevermind.:shk:

weird or just open-minded
if theres life on mars? wat relevance does that have to the topic or anything thats been discussed in this topic?


[edit on 12/17/2004 by cheeser]

Originally posted by cheeser

"And yet firmly implanted in my mind is the long-standing opinion that there is an omnipotent God who made me the kind of creature that I am. How do I know that he has not brought it about that there is no earth, no sky, no extended thing, no shape, no size, no place, while at the same time ensuring that all these things appear to me to exist just as they do now? What is more, just as I consider that others sometimes go astray in cases where they think they have the most perfect knowledge, how do I know that God has not brought it about that I too go wrong every time I add two and three or count the sides of a square, or in some even simpler matter, if that is imaginable? But perhaps God would not have allowed me to be deceived in this way, since he is said to be supremely good; [...] I will suppose therefore that not God, who is supremely good and the source of truth, but rather some malicious demon of the utmost power and cunning has employed all his energies in order to deceive me. I shall think that the sky, the air, the earth, colours, shapes, sounds and all external things are merely the delusions of dreams which he has devised to ensnare my judgment."

sorry it just reminded me and had a little bit of relevance to the subject

whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com...

Yes and was taken and copied and pasted from here.

yes it was, very good pickup, i have it in quotation

[edit on 12/17/2004 by cheeser]

I want to just say something here. Specifically to realoritt. Obviously you did not read my original post. My original post was not a teory post. Rather, it was just stating the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY TO COINCIDE CHRISTIANITY WITH KNOWN SCIENCE. If our science is correct, then christians could not believe in a full reality. It goes against THEIR DOCTRINE not mine.

I do not believe in this illusion. If you read my post you would see that. Sometimes I wonder if I am talking to zombies. It is as if you only read portions of my posts. Then insult me because you do not know the whole story. Wait....thats what christians do with EVERYTHING. They only pay attention to the half truth. In the bible Real, it does not say "the earth was created in 6 days with a day of rest with each year being millions of years". It says the earth was created in 6 days with a day of rest PERIOD. Anything addition is completely made up. Why is it that christians tell us all why we should believe in this trerribly written book called the bible, when they can't even do so themselves. Why is it that we should even listen to a word you have to say real, when you honestly believe that the bible says something it doesn't (by the way you believe it because someone told you it...simple follower).

This is getting disturbing.

Truth, I apologize for misunderstanding you.

I've been watching laura and george make bull horns everychance I get, but I realised it's not the sign of the devil or illuminati but rather a symbol of Texas...

The ram horns? When texas A&M went by in the parade, they did the bull horns, and were letting the people in the parade know that they were representing...

They have Texas pride, whats that got to do with the illuminati??

I know, it's a misunderstanding... Hope this clears things up.

AHHHHHH!!!

And someone finally leaves my mind at ease by looking into something and not assuming what someone told them is correct. Thank you true.

Originally posted by TrueLies
I've been watching laura and george make bull horns everychance I get, but I realised it's not the sign of the devil or illuminati but rather a symbol of Texas...

The ram horns? When texas A&M went by in the parade, they did the bull horns, and were letting the people in the parade know that they were representing...

They have Texas pride, whats that got to do with the illuminati??

I know, it's a misunderstanding... Hope this clears things up.

No. It is a satanic sign, if you look at these people , think, I mean think, are they huge football fans too?


Jesus said there would be false prophets in the last days just as in the days of Noah, Look at the pictures from Bush, Tmmy Franks to Prince Wuillliam to Yaasir Arrafat, and the preachers, as well, do you beieve they are chanting for the football team, or for someone else?
www.jesus-is-savior.com...&%20Witchcraft/signs_of_satan.htm


www.jesus-is-savior.com...&%-savior.com/False%20 Religions/Wicca%20&%




Is Benny Hinn a fan of Football that he just has to make that sign,when he preaches when God is healing people as he says while he is lining his pockets? Maybe it is a sign that Jesus said would be here in the last days, false prophets, ..and so on

Interesting. I did not know that benny Hinn made that sign.


And yes it is a satanic nwo sign, I think it has to do with the freemasons. Don't remember where it started.

What an eyebrow raiser... It does make me wonder why foreign figures and prince's would be making that sign... and amy grant too?? whats up with that?

this horned owl thing, whats up with that and the dollar bill? I never noticed the oil in the bill before.

Realoritt, you are an extremest.

One of those people who thinks that the world is coming after them. Relax, GWB isn't sacrificing cows over satans alter. I would argue that you practice faith closer to satanism than he does, and anyone else in a public situation at that matter. Furthermore, I would win that argument.

You see, this is where we stand again. You either read or heard someone say that this was a satanic symbol. I can assure you that you were not watching a live broadcast when it occured, and I can also assure you that you do not have your own opinion on the matter. That would mean you question, and we both know that is not possible.

[edit on 2/9/2005 by Seapeople]

Whereas it is quite possible that some pictures do show people performing the University of Texas "hook 'em horns" hand sign, it is also true that Satanists also make the gesture in reverence of Lucifer.

For example :


Anton Szandor LaVey - Founder of the Church of Satan, Notice his right hand.


Satanic Ritual

I include this thread which shows various well known people photographed making this sign. It is rather strange that few if any of the people included in this site went to the University of Texas.

Harley Clarke is allegedly the guy who in 1955 began the University of Texas "hook 'em horns" hand sign. However, the sign itself has been around for millenia, long before Texas existed as a governmental entity let alone as a school. Where did it come from. We'd bet it was borrowed, perhaps deliberately from the Satanic movement to give a cover story excuse for those Satanists who are caught giving the signal. The U of T cover story is a "perfect" and an innocent excuse that will satisfy most ordinary folks whose curiosity might otherwise be aroused by more vigilant watchers.

'Hook em horns' or sign of Satan ?

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Pisky]

Yes, exactly what I meant, and I highly doubt Yassir Arafat was making the "Hook em Horns" sign..lol