If WW2 Germans had Chinese troops in France??

If WW2 Germans had Chinese troops in France??

We all know there was a Chinese counterpart of German alliance.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

So, if China and Germany had some how united territory(prob in middle east) to fight Soviet Union and some how got Chinese troops in France.
Would you think it would make it a lot harder for spies to infiltrate?

I mean when it comes to white infiltrating white, it was easy. But, imagine some Chinese-German soldiers watching you especially the use of Kung Fu on spies as we all know the West didn't have any counter to kung fu back then until modern day which is called MMA.

Eventually Germany would've given Chinese Tiger Tanks for mass production due to mass manpower loss and lack of tanks Chinese had.

originally posted by: makemap

We all know there was a Chinese counterpart of German alliance..

I didnt

But if the Germans had allied with China then obviously they wouldnt have allied with Japan, and I agree that could have have had massive consequences ....

A joint US-Japan invasion of China? Nukes on Shanghai?

And what would the Russians have done?

a reply to: makemap
If Hitler had an alliance with China, that would have spoiled his alliance with Japan, which was conquering China at the time.
Hitler rather liked his alliance with Japan, which was much more useful to him than friendship with a weak and powerless China would have been. He would have needed a time machine to know any other kind of China.
You may as well ask what would have happened if Hitler had allied with Hannibal. It gets that arbitrary.

I think you'll find the Chinese had enough on their plate in 1940 to not give much thought to the European Front.

You know with that whole genocidal Japanese invasion and all.

Nor could the Germans have rendered any meaningful aid to their Chinese allies, in the way they couldn't really assist the Japanese

Eventually Germany would've given Chinese Tiger Tanks for mass production

Extremely unlikely. Germany couldn't even build a meaningful number of them. They weren't fans of sharing the Tiger. Japan only ever got a single example and at an extortionate price. Hungary got 13. That's it. Not to mention China's lack of industry during the period.

a reply to: makemap

as we all know the West didn't have any counter to kung fu back then

? A gun maybe?

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: makemap
If Hitler had an alliance with China, that would have spoiled his alliance with Japan, which was conquering China at the time.
Hitler rather liked his alliance with Japan, which was much more useful to him than friendship with a weak and powerless China would have been. He would have needed a time machine to know any other kind of China.
You may as well ask what would have happened if Hitler had allied with Hannibal. It gets that arbitrary.

You know that is a lie in history? Hitler preferred Japan to stay out of Germany's way. They formed a non-interference pact during WW2. Japan stabbed China in the back. That was their own ultimate mistake.

medium.com...

originally posted by: makemap
We all know there was a Chinese counterpart of German alliance.

I think if the Germans had the Chinese on their side, along with God and maybe either Wonder Woman or Legolas they might have won.

It all would have depended on whether the Allies sided with the Moon People and The Marx Brothers.

a reply to: makemap
After Pearl Harbour, Hitler declared war on the United States. That tells us where he thought his military advantage lay.

originally posted by: Ohanka
I think you'll find the Chinese had enough on their plate in 1940 to not give much thought to the European Front.

You know with that whole genocidal Japanese invasion and all.

Nor could the Germans have rendered any meaningful aid to their Chinese allies, in the way they couldn't really assist the Japanese

Eventually Germany would've given Chinese Tiger Tanks for mass production

Extremely unlikely. Germany couldn't even build a meaningful number of them. They weren't fans of sharing the Tiger. Japan only ever got a single example and at an extortionate price. Hungary got 13. That's it. Not to mention China's lack of industry during the period.

Assuming Japan has not been able to invade China or simply sat out for awhile.

Your totally getting the wrong idea of strategic military emplacement. But, if China and Germany linked, they both could have factories in the middle east building tiger tanks, etc. to surround Soviet Union. By 1941 T-34's were already too much trouble. Just imagine Chinese in the middle east asking for support. Soviet will have to split their forces in half and China is going to need lots of anti-tank weapons. Germans already supplied Panzer I Ausf. A and SdKfz 222s. I mean italians got upgraded to panzer tanks during WW2. Wouldn't be surprised China get Tigers to fight IS tanks.
en.wikipedia.org...(1927-45)

The Germans even build V2 rocket factories at France. What makes you think they won't on Chinese soils just to attack Soviet? They even had factories in Africa when they conquered it. Their main agenda was to end Soviet Union.

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: makemap

We all know there was a Chinese counterpart of German alliance..

I didnt

But if the Germans had allied with China then obviously they wouldnt have allied with Japan, and I agree that could have have had massive consequences ....

A joint US-Japan invasion of China? Nukes on Shanghai?

And what would the Russians have done?

Yes, then Japan starts nuking America with stole/given tech. Instant WW2 Nuclear holocaust. Seriously though. Nuke might not be invented. Even then Japan will probably not invade China without US. Japan only invaded because of old sino-chinese war histories. US was mostly neutral and would side with China either ways because of one person. Sun Yat Sen and their ties with the Nationalist government. US will probably not have invaded. US only started antagonizing China because of communism during Cold War. Before WW2 no real antagonization. Absolutely none. Also US joined the war because it got attacked by Pearl Harbor which is what Japan did. Not the other way around. It was only waiting to take out the British Empire which never happened. Have you not read the War plans? Do remember who took pictures of Nanking massacre? An American name Harrison Foreman.

en.wikipedia.org...


Dam you people need to catch up in history lessons. If Germany had China on its side and Japan still invades US. It would not have done an Axis alliance with the Japs because Hitler wouldn't want US to invade.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: makemap
After Pearl Harbour, Hitler declared war on the United States. That tells us where he thought his military advantage lay.

That was Japan and only after China lost its alliance with Germany. Read history. I doubt Germany would declare war with US after Japanese attacks because all they needs was China's help. Japan weren't even helping much to be honest. They didn't even do full strike Soviet Union like the Germans would expect/did. Please, they can get their message from China to see if Japan is actually helping at all.

a reply to: makemap
Two important facts remain;
1) Once war got going, Hitler was not interested in military alliance with China.
2) China had nothing to offer Germany at the time.
These two things are related.

I still think an alliance with Hannibal would have been more useful, because at least his elephants would have been able to trample upon enemy tanks.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: makemap
Two important facts remain;
1) Once war got going, Hitler was not interested in military alliance with China.
2) China had nothing to offer Germany at the time.
These two things are related.

I still think an alliance with Hannibal would have been more useful, because at least his elephants would have been able to trample upon enemy tanks.

Read the links. Hitler was sitting there to see who is the superior race. What if China got all the way to the middle East and Japan unable to conquer it or not attack it at all? His tactic would change dramatically just like the Italians siding with the Germans in WW2. This got German army into African Campaign because Italians were asking for help. Majority of the Germans supported the Chinese. This would have change German minds so badly into mass supplies to Chinese. Even then the Soviets were supplying the communist with military hardware. Why wouldn't Germany do the same? That is idiotic. I mean they supplied the Romanian and other European countries.

originally posted by: makemap
Read the links. Hitler was sitting there to see who is the superior race.

He knew the answer already. Read the maps.
On p268 of the Times Atlas of World History there is a map of "The expansion of Japan 1933-41". The important point is the green line showing "expansion by 1941", which takes in about half the territory of China.
By that standard, it would have been patently obvious to Hitler that China was not a superior race as he understood the term. All the history since the Opium Wars would be telling him the same thing. No, he wasn't waiting to find out anything.

What if China got all the way to the middle East

In what circumstances would China have been able to get to the Middle East? Hannibal and his elephants would have blocked them at the Khyber pass, I tell you.
You are trying to concoct a fantasy in which the fairly powerful China of 2017 is somehow dropped into the middle of the twentieth century, and it doesn't really work.

I mean the Germans supplied the Romanian and other European countries.

There is a little thing called logistics. They were in physical contact with the Roumanians. Under war conditions, there was no conceivable way to transport supplies from Germany to China. Again, I urge you, look at the maps. You need to understand the military realities.

originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: Ohanka
I think you'll find the Chinese had enough on their plate in 1940 to not give much thought to the European Front.

You know with that whole genocidal Japanese invasion and all.

Nor could the Germans have rendered any meaningful aid to their Chinese allies, in the way they couldn't really assist the Japanese

Eventually Germany would've given Chinese Tiger Tanks for mass production

Extremely unlikely. Germany couldn't even build a meaningful number of them. They weren't fans of sharing the Tiger. Japan only ever got a single example and at an extortionate price. Hungary got 13. That's it. Not to mention China's lack of industry during the period.

Assuming Japan has not been able to invade China or simply sat out for awhile.

Your totally getting the wrong idea of strategic military emplacement. But, if China and Germany linked, they both could have factories in the middle east building tiger tanks, etc. to surround Soviet Union. By 1941 T-34's were already too much trouble. Just imagine Chinese in the middle east asking for support. Soviet will have to split their forces in half and China is going to need lots of anti-tank weapons. Germans already supplied Panzer I Ausf. A and SdKfz 222s. I mean italians got upgraded to panzer tanks during WW2. Wouldn't be surprised China get Tigers to fight IS tanks.
en.wikipedia.org...(1927-45)

The Germans even build V2 rocket factories at France. What makes you think they won't on Chinese soils just to attack Soviet? They even had factories in Africa when they conquered it. Their main agenda was to end Soviet Union.

The hell? I don't even know where to start with this.

In this scenario did the aliens give aid to the Nazis?

Did Himmler finally get his portal to hell to work?

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria



Soviet Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation liberated Mainland China from Imperial Japan

The Soviet forces totaled 89 divisions with 1.5 million men, 3,704 tanks, 1,852 self propelled guns, 85,819 vehicles and 3,721 aircraft. Approximately one-third of its strength was in combat support and services.[1] The Soviet plan incorporated all the experience in maneuver warfare that they had acquired in fighting the Germans.[1]

I really enjoyed my days of playing Axis and Allies with my friends. It gives the players a feel for the strategic factors of the war. Rules have been updated and shared by lots of game theory sites, inc MIT

a reply to: makemap

Is that what you call history?

More like what if. Which makes for excellent sci-fi novels, but not history.

It was not much of an alliance, if you can call it that, if at first problem it fails. As soon as Japan began its expansion into China, the "alliance" went poof, as Hitler much preferred Japan as an ally...if a non-interference agreement can be called an alliance.

If Japan and Germany had ever come to logger-heads over anything, the fightin' would have commenced. In India say...

There was never a chance, as in not happenin' in this reality, of Chinese troops in Occupied Europe in any fashion. They had their own problems with Japan, and the newly begun Revolution that brought about the eventual rise of the Communistic govt we see there today.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: makemap

as we all know the West didn't have any counter to kung fu back then

? A gun maybe?

A fleet of bombers even!

a reply to: skalla


A piece of fresh fruit, perhaps? How about a bunch of loganberries?

originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: makemap
Two important facts remain;
1) Once war got going, Hitler was not interested in military alliance with China.
2) China had nothing to offer Germany at the time.
These two things are related.

I still think an alliance with Hannibal would have been more useful, because at least his elephants would have been able to trample upon enemy tanks.

Read the links. Hitler was sitting there to see who is the superior race. What if China got all the way to the middle East and Japan unable to conquer it or not attack it at all? His tactic would change dramatically just like the Italians siding with the Germans in WW2. This got German army into African Campaign because Italians were asking for help. Majority of the Germans supported the Chinese. This would have change German minds so badly into mass supplies to Chinese. Even then the Soviets were supplying the communist with military hardware. Why wouldn't Germany do the same? That is idiotic. I mean they supplied the Romanian and other European countries.

???????
China in the 1930's was a chaotic mass of warlords and semi-feudal anarchy. The country had very little heavy industry and much of what it did have was captured by the Japanese early on in the war. That said, they did well to hold off the Japanese in many places, albeit at a horrific cost.
The chances of the Chinese getting to the Middle East, even if the Japanese had not invaded, are ludicrously low.