Metformin is an Endocrine Disruptor and Threat to Humankind

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Kettu
a reply to: Metallicus

Not a doctor, but some people claim blueberry extract works as a "natural" alternative to Metformin.

*shrug* I have no personal experience, but I know people who extol its virtues.

I appreciate your input.

My concern is that someone with type 2 diabetes will read this and then think they can get along without their medication which they can't in most cases. Whatever other effects Metformin may have it is an effective treatment for T2D.

Actually, Metformin is an ineffective treatment for T2D. That is why majority of all T2D are put on more and more medications. Metformin does not treat the issue of what type 2 diabetes is doing. It is insufficient insulin production. Metformin does not control post-prandial glucose exertions.

a reply to: Metallicus

That's why I said I'm not a doctor.

People shouldn't ever take actual medical advice from someone who isn't a doctor.

Go through this forum. Apparently vitamin C cures everything, changing the PH of your water can cure cancer, and collodial silver can make you live forever. Oh I forgot about monatomic gold, apparently Egyptians ate that or something.

Just because there's tons of topics on here about these things, doesn't many any of it true.

I do find this interesting - from a environmental point of view. It just highlights another consequence other animals and plants suffer as a result of human advancement.

While I accept the numbers may appear small, one has to remember the projected population growth and the combined factors of existing and future environmental pollution.

As a side note: I was prescribed Metformin because of increased insulin-resistance as a consequence of PCOS, it didn't really help me and I stopped taking it after unbearable flatulence, although my son thought my "fart pills" were hilarious. Oyy.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Metallicus

I totally agree. In fact, I would not hestitate to say that it is the most effective one. Even when the disease has progressed to insulin, metformin is still prescribed to decrease the amount of insulin that you have to take. Insulin causes weight gain.

This is actually false and not sound medical advice. Metformin suppresses hepatic gluconeogenesis. One of the largest Metformin studies ever done showed that patients had a 2 to 1 better outcome with diet and exercise compared with metformin. On top of that, 70%+ of current Metformin users are not below an 7.0 HbA1c.

In fact not one of the current T2D medications addresses the issue that T2D have—meal time glucose spikes. Only insulin can address this.

Lastly, not all insulins cause weight gain. The inhalale formulation actually reduces weight gain. That is because it mimics the endogenous secretion of insulin like that of a person with a normal functioning pancreas. So again, you are wrong.

originally posted by: M4ngo

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: M4ngo

a ng/l is 1 part per million. a mg/l is 1 part per thousand.

There is a very very big difference between those 2 numbers.

Nobody can predict how many diabetics will exist in the future and nobody can predict that metformin will still be in use by then.

Like I said - doom porn. Keep the people anxious and fearful and they will pay any amount of money to someone who can save them. Especially lucrative when there is no problem in the first place.

I'm sorry you don't see the long-term consequences. It is absorbed in the soil, taken up by plants. It runs rampant in all water sources, already altering aquatic life, and it already damages the human body. No doom porn here whatsoever. You are not going to hear about this stuff anywhere else. Hence, not doom porn. All species depend on food sources and health for survival.

Based on daily water discharges, Metformin loads of 15.2 kg/d (Elbe) and 6.4 kg/d (Weser) into the North Sea were calculated. Lake Constance is used to abstract potable water which is further purified to be used as drinking water.

I quoted you because i wanted to make you understand and get a good "feel" of the numbers quoted in this report.

Lake Constance has a volume of 10 X

en.wikipedia.org...

Is this why I have been entertaining thoughts of a three way with a gay frog and a fish?
It all makes sense now.

a reply to: M4ngo

oh god - please - anther study.

Diet and Exercise do very well to treat diabetes. But diabetes is a progressive disease. Do you understand what progressive means?

T2D is an immune disease where the patient is essentially allergic to something in the islets of langerhans and the immune system attacks it and kills it. Therefore production of insulin decreases over time.

I have been a diabetic for over 40 years. I controlled my blood sugar with exercise and diet for almost 15 years. But as time progressed, there wasn't enough exercise I could do to allow me to eat at least 1500 calories a day.

Starvation is not a pleasant side effect.

By the way, did you know that almost 50 % of all medical studies cannot be replicated by another scientist? And that there is no way of knowing which study is real and which study is not?

You gave an example earlier that 15 kg/day was being discharged to Lake Constance. I looked it up and the volume of Lake Constance is 10,000,000,000 m3.

The concentration of metformin in the lake would be 0.000,000,000,0015 mg/L

That is far below the concentration of 40 mg/L that the minnow were exposed to.

Notice the language of the study you are taking about. "it COULD, POTENTIALLY.....MIGHT" But there is no definitive "It will"

You know, if my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle. That could, maybe might, potentially be true, especially in this age of transgender surgery.

But the reality is ....my aunt does not have balls....she is not might uncle.

a reply to: M4ngo

And again, you have not clearly thought out your arguement.

Inhalable insulin may or may not be better for the treatment of diabetes but please compare the cost:

www.goodrx.com...

$329 dollars for four or eight unit cartridges and not covered by most health insurance plans.

ttps://www.goodrx.com/metformin-er-glucophage-xr

$4.00, covered by most health insurance plans


So how much money have you got to spend on staying alive and healthy?

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Can you now understand what would motivate a pharmaceutical company to fund alarming research to get people off of metformin?

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks

originally posted by: M4ngo

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: M4ngo

a ng/l is 1 part per million. a mg/l is 1 part per thousand.

There is a very very big difference between those 2 numbers.

Nobody can predict how many diabetics will exist in the future and nobody can predict that metformin will still be in use by then.

Like I said - doom porn. Keep the people anxious and fearful and they will pay any amount of money to someone who can save them. Especially lucrative when there is no problem in the first place.

I'm sorry you don't see the long-term consequences. It is absorbed in the soil, taken up by plants. It runs rampant in all water sources, already altering aquatic life, and it already damages the human body. No doom porn here whatsoever. You are not going to hear about this stuff anywhere else. Hence, not doom porn. All species depend on food sources and health for survival.

Based on daily water discharges, Metformin loads of 15.2 kg/d (Elbe) and 6.4 kg/d (Weser) into the North Sea were calculated. Lake Constance is used to abstract potable water which is further purified to be used as drinking water.

I quoted you because i wanted to make you understand and get a good "feel" of the numbers quoted in this report.

Lake Constance has a volume of 10 X

en.wikipedia.org...

And it will only continue to be reintroduced back into the environment and accumulate into larger quantities, going directly into the soil, taken up by plants such as vegetables and fruits, taken in by aquatic life, and become present in larger quantities in drinking waster. And yes, the prevalence of T2D diabetes is only increasing.

It is not just Metformin, but also its transformation product guanylurea.

On release into the environment through biosolid application, metformin and guanylurea can end up on agricultural land and thus their potential plant uptake cannot be excluded. Similarly, met- formin from wastewater if used for irrigation purposes may be absorbed by plants depending on the type of plants. Recently, Cui et al. (2015) studied the uptake and transport of metformin in plants (Typha latifolia and Phragmites australis) and their results showed that metformin can be absorbed by plant roots and was even further transported from root tips to root tail. Based on the proposed transport mechanism, subsequent translocation to aerial parts of the plants such as leaves and stems was also likely. As such, there is potential for phytoremediation of metformin utilising these species of plants as a post-treatment process to reduce metformin loads in surface waters.
The uptake and translocation of metformin in edible parts of cereals, oily seeds, beans, tomato, squash, carrots and potatoes have been investigated by a few researchers (Eggen and Lillo, 2012; Eggen et al., 2011). For example, metformin showed high uptake and translocation in oily seeds of rape, while bioaccumulation factors (BCF) of B. rapa cv Valo and B. napus cv. Sheik were reported to be 21.72 and 20.63, respectively (Eggen and Lillo, 2012). In contrast, cereals (wheat, barley and oat) have been found to possess 15e70 times lower BCFs compared to rape seeds. Metformin accumulation factors in other vegetables such as tomatoes, squash and beans were reported to be even significantly lower than in cereals. Guanylurea was also detected in barley grains, bean pods, potato peel and small potatoes with concentrations ranging from 2.6 to 5.7 mg/kg and not in other plants, which indicates an in-plant complete metabolism of metformin in certain plant species (Eggen and Lillo, 2012).

Importantly, metformin is now being found at relatively high concentrations in watersheds (in the ng to μg L−1 range when it has been measured), and often at orders of magnitude higher concentrations than known EDCs such as EE2 (Scheurer et al., 2012; Oosterhuis et al., 2013; Blair et al., 2013a; Ghoshdastidar et al., 2014). EE2 has endocrine disrupting effects at concentrations in the single ng L−1 range and is found in effluent at 1–62 ng L−1 and in surface waters at up to 5 ng L−1 (Pawlowski et al., 2004). Metformin is found in effluent at 1–47 μg L−1 and in surface waters at 12 ng L−1 to 3 μg L−1 throughout North America and Europe (Blair et al., 2013a,b; Ghoshdastidar et al., 2014; Oosterhuis et al., 2013; Scheurer et al., 2012). The data presented here and in our previous work (Niemuth et al., 2015), exposing FHM to a concentration of metformin found in effluent (40 μg L−1), demonstrate the potential endocrine disrupting effects of metformin.

Importantly, metformin is known to readily cross the placenta, and has been detected in cord plasma at upwards of 800 μg L−1, 67.5% of the concentration measured in maternal plasma and 20 times the concentration used in the present study (Charles et al., 2006).

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Can you now understand what would motivate a pharmaceutical company to fund alarming research to get people off of metformin?

Pharmaceutical companies did not fund this research. You obviously have not read any of it and continue to make blind (and wrong) assumptions.

Why do you keep posting disinformation?

a reply to: M4ngo

You have forgotten the half life. This was discussed with you earlier and you didn't grasp the significane.

The half-life of metformin is only 5 days. The means that the 15 kd/day that you discharge today is down to 7 kg in 5 days. Then 3.5 kg in another 5 days. Then 1.575 kg. in another 5 days. and so on and so on

Metformin cannot accumulate because the half-life is too short.

a reply to: M4ngo

I am posting what mis-information?

Did I make a mistake? Was it not YOUR post that showed the minnows were exosed to 40 mg/l of metformin?

Did I make a mistake? Was it not YOUR post that showed the half-life of metformin?

Did I make a mistake? Was it not YOUR post that showed that 15 kg/day of metformin is discharged to Lake Constance?

Did I make a mistake? Was it not YOUR post where the scientist concluded that metformin "might" "could potentially" cause a problem?

I posted the links for the cost of inhalable insulin compared to metformin?

HOw do you know who funded this study? Big Pharma often does their funding thru foundations?

Please tell me what mis-information I have provided?

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: M4ngo

You have forgotten the half life. This was discussed with you earlier and you didn't grasp the significane.

The half-life of metformin is only 5 days. The means that the 15 kd/day that you discharge today is down to 7 kg in 5 days. Then 3.5 kg in another 5 days. Then 1.575 kg. in another 5 days. and so on and so on

Metformin cannot accumulate because the half-life is too short.

You have forgotten that you have falsely claimed, more than once, that these environmental studies were funded by pharmaceutical companies.

You do not understand how living systems work. Done arguing with you.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: M4ngo

I am posting what mis-information?

Did I make a mistake? Was it not YOUR post that showed the minnows were exosed to 40 mg/l of metformin?

Did I make a mistake? Was it not YOUR post that showed the half-life of metformin?

Did I make a mistake? Was it not YOUR post that showed that 15 kg/day of metformin is discharged to Lake Constance?

Did I make a mistake? Was it not YOUR post where the scientist concluded that metformin "might" "could potentially" cause a problem?

I posted the links for the cost of inhalable insulin compared to metformin?

HOw do you know who funded this study? Big Pharma often does their funding thru foundations?

Please tell me what mis-information I have provided?

This is not my first time reading a scientific study. All scientific publications include financial interests and disclosures if there are any. See, you have no idea what you are arguing. Stop trolling.

a reply to: M4ngo

Sorry you got so upset that I tore apart your link to doom porn.

Its times that people started discussing bluntly the propaganda we are all being manipulated with.

Your done arguing with me because there is nothing to argue about. The study you have provided is nothing but biased propaganda with no real meaning at all.

a reply to: M4ngo

Hate to point it out but you haven't answered my question.

What misinformation did I post?

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: M4ngo

Sorry you got so upset that I tore apart your link to doom porn.

Its times that people started discussing bluntly the propaganda we are all being manipulated with.

Your done arguing with me because there is nothing to argue about. The study you have provided is nothing but biased propaganda with no real meaning at all.

Done arguing with you because you have no clue about medications, how the human body functions, and how living systems operate.

On top of that, you lied multiple times and claimed pharmaceutical companies funded all these studies (did not fund any) and thus falsely claim I am posting doom porn while having no clue that financial interests/disclosures are always included in scientific publications.

Peace.

a reply to: Metallicus

I was on metformin for diabetes 2 and it gave me terrible stomach aches. Shortly after I stopped taking it-I was put on insulin.

Another reason I wanted to quit metformin was the WSJ had an article about 8 years ago (I can't find it now, sorry) that stated tests showing it was more harmful than helpful for diabetics.

I was amazed how my doctor argued with me about stopping-I had even printed the article for her-but I was adamant and stopped. Shortly after, I began experiencing terrible neuropathy pain and have ever since.

I have so many issues (stroke, heart attack etc) at this point that I have no idea, and neither do the doctors, what meds cause what additional problems. I've given up. It's been a battle for over 10 years and I'm tired.

a reply to: Justso

I am so sorry Justso.

Non-diabetics just don't understand what diabetic life is like. It is exhausting and it so hard to watch other people eat whatever they want and then turn around and explain how diabetics have no self control.

I myself, do not listen to articles or studies and I discuss with my doctor what medicine I should take and what diet I should follow.