I fear a clash of cultures coming regarding marijuana AKA canabis

a reply to: Plotus

No, it's not fine just the way it is. Having it illegal is just creating criminals out of people who are doing nothing wrong and propping up a black market of drug cartels and harmful activity.

You're literally causing problems by making it an illegal substance and creating crime.

So no, it's not cool, or ok or part of the charm.

a reply to: allsee4eye

Nah. They're as big of international drug racketeers as anybody else ever was (OPIUM, HERON, AND "HASHISH" THEY CALL POT).

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: snowspirit

Alcohol. Cigarettes. Any narcotic. Any. Is religiously forbidden in Islam.

Go tell that to all the corner shop owners in Britian , and most of the hard drug sellers , i bet they lose sleep over peddling all that stuff for profit

a reply to: Plotus

I find this post to be as nonsensical as the OP. Herb tends to increase one's insight and awareness. Another reason why it's still illegal. Can't have everyone realizing the rampant amount of bs that surrounds us. But hey, ignorance is bliss.

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: snowspirit

Alcohol. Cigarettes. Any narcotic. Any. Is religiously forbidden in Islam.

Someone should have told that to all the insurgents and terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Because those dudes were all doped up.

I don't really know about the Islamic spin on this. Yet I did see this first hand with American's the other night at the local watering hole. I was talking with an older patron on the patio that said they loved Willie Nelson. Jokingly while we were walking back in I responded something like oh really i like to smoke weed too haha. On the other side of the bar younger yuppies in their early 30's over heard me and began to criticize about it.

This wasn't just a couple minutes but a full blown scene. They made a comment to the bartender asking for her to get me to leave and the patron left because of there endless ridicule. I honestly would have respected them a little more if they had the balls to say something directly to me. Once they realized i wasn't going anywhere they decided to sit outside on the patio. Even later they commented to each other when i stepped out to vape.

I've never understood this mentality towards pot especially at a bar. Also in my experience people that feel that negatively about pot wouldn't pass up a line of coke. Maybe that's just this area or something but it still blows my mind.

a reply to: allsee4eye

You know what.

They can take my guns. They can take my truck. They can take my dog. They can even take the wife. There is no way they are taking my bong or my weed.

They'll have to kill me.

Who gives a # they make 90% of the smack anyway

Hhhmmm... back in the day I used to buy the smoke from a couple of young Muslim men.

a reply to: allsee4eye

Wow...

This has to be one of the dirtiest, most utterly disgusting methods of getting people to come around to a phobic way of thinking, that I have ever heard.

I find the fact that you are trying to use peoples enjoyment of pot against them, to turn their minds from peace and inclusion, toward vitriol and automatic distrust, absolutely disgusting, and you ought to be damned well ashamed of yourself. Utterly callous, disgusting, cheap and malicious behaviour.

a reply to: allsee4eye

Just for the record, a lot of Muslims use various "drugs". Some of it's cultural (like in Yemen) & some of it's personal. You ever heard of khat or bhang?

Also, you should probably mention that the views of substances vary greatly depending on the governments, the denominations, and the individuals involved. That's exactly the same as with Christianity and Judaism! lol Most of their denominations are officially against drugs and most of their govts are officially against them as well. But the individuals? Not so much, hence why we're even having this conversation.

And it's not just Islam, Christianity, and Judaism-controlled countries. Have you actually looked at the drug laws in Eastern Asia, particularly Singapore execution for mere drug possession? They probably have the harshest drug laws in the world, and Buddhism is their largest religious faction. Nepal is also incredibly harsh against drugs and they're a Buddhist-majority country.

Not to mention, Islamic denominations have had long debates for centuries about drug use. Technically, we're not supposed to get intoxicated. But that has a lot of different interpretations, which is why my dad (an Imam) has had no problem taking opiate painkillers after medical procedures. Medical MJ would also fit in this category since it's not to get you intoxicated. And some will drink alcohol as long as they don't drink enough to get drunk. But others take a harsher view on it for various reasons, just like how members of every other religious denomination will do.

If anything, going by your logic we already have a "clash of cultures" over MJ between the different Christians right here. After all, Christians make up the vast majority of our law enforcement, govt workers, and citizens. Yet they've been fighting a multi-decade long "Drug War" against each other because of the vast differences in opinions about drug usage.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

To be fair, the majority of the reason for the drug war, with particular focus on the issue of marijuana, stems from the fact that a publishing tycoon in the olden days, had invested in the production of paper from wood pulp, and was in danger of being outperformed by other publishers, who were using the cheaper, and more durable hemp, to make their paper stock from. Standing to be swatted aside in short order, if his publishing failed, which it was in danger of doing because of his larger overhead cost, relating to his insistence on investing in wood pulp and timber, he started a smear campaign against the plant which was bringing his competitors such cheap success.

That is literally the cornerstone, the foundation of the war against marijuana. Over the years, it has become about many other things, but this is perhaps the most telling of them. Those who have been looking into these matters over the years, will be aware that in every generation which has had this debate, those who have opposed the plant in all its forms, have done so for spurious reasons, and not the ones they state publicly. For example, Jeff Sessions is not against cannabis because he believes it is the devils weed, but because his financial ties to the tobacco industry are so tight, as well as his financial interest in the private prison system, both of which benefit from the current illegality on the Federal level, of possessing or growing the plant, or possessing it with the intention of distributing it.

He will not tell you that though. He will, instead, tell people that his reasons are moral, ethical, that he is concerned about mental health, physical health of those using it, and a whole heap of other things which, in actual fact, have nothing to do with the reasons he REALLY dislikes the idea of legalisation.

Whether its excuses which have been used before, like the lies spread by Hearst, or the notion that allowing it to become legal will put too much financial power in the hands of minorities, which has also been an excuse at times, the reality of the matter, is that the REAL reason people in power refuse to allow it to become legal, is because they do not want the financial status quo to be threatened, to permit a situation where the power currently held by the few, is distributed among the many.

Its the same tart in a different frock, and needs to be knocked on the head.

a reply to: allsee4eye

I've known like real Muslims who say it aint forbidden, as it aint the kind of stuff to make to mistake your wife for your sister, so as to speak.

So Neh

I'll be honest I don't know much about what is Haram/Halal etc... but of everyone that I've met and befriended that ever practiced or practices Islam, I've never got the impression they would go the direction you're worried about when it comes to fighting or clashing with legalization efforts. They seem pretty content to just do their best to please the God they believe in and let the non believers burn their own path in life.

I'm just speaking on the ones I've personally met and interacted with and befriended, obviously I can't speak for anyone else or to anyone else experiences, but I'm not too concerned about this.

TBH I'm more worried about the old Catholic/Christian folks who are still in control of our laws who seem to think "Reefer Madness" was a mild example of the insanity that ensues after smoking...... ridiculous.

-Alee

a reply to: NerdGoddess

Muslim here. That's how I am. I don't use any drugs including recreational & don't even like to be around them. But I don't really care what others use as long as they're not a danger to the public when doing it. Wanna get high or drunk? Go for it. Wanna get high or drunk and then go driving in public? Go to jail, buddy (public intoxication, DUI/DWI, etc).

ETA: I'm against the current War on Drugs simply because I hate seeing so many lives get ruined over contradictory drug laws. I probably hate tobacco more than any other substance because it death toll is by far the highest. And I hate alcohol almost as much because of its dramatic effects on everything from rape rates to murder rates (as in, people are more likely to do these crimes when alcohol is involved). Plus, I'm curious to see what well funded research on MJ & hemp can produce.

a reply to: TrueBrit

That's how it is in every culture, though. Religion & morality are used as pretenses to justify a policy. But the real reasons are usually related to money and control over others.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Now, now, we can't have you pointing out that religious beliefs are not homogeneous across all so called believers!

Seriously though, how is this point always forgotten?!?!

If it is legal, Muslims don't have to use it. I'm glad to hear Enlightenedservant's views on this.

a reply to: chelsdh

Seriously though, how is this point always forgotten?!?!

To be blunt, it's because some people don't see Muslims as fellow humans. They see us as some type of collective borg or pest, hence why they blame the "collective" any time individuals within the religion do something wrong.

Put it like this, how many people care about the individual termites in a termite mound? People typically see all of the termites as a nuisance, regardless of each individual termite's actions. That's how they see us.

originally posted by: darkbake
If it is legal, Muslims don't have to use it. I'm glad to hear Enlightenedservant's views on this.

Thanks. And think about it, there have been Muslims in the US since before the US even became an independent nation. We've dealt with America's drug laws since those laws were first created. So it's weird to me that people are still acting like this is a new subject to us, as if any new Muslim immigrants would be the first Muslims here. It's just weird.

ETA: Ok, last edit lol. Just think of it like this: Dave Chappelle is a Muslim. Yes, the commedian who's known for both the Chappelle Show and for advocating MJ is a Muslim. There are a lot of African American celebrities who are Muslims right now. And there are also countless Muslims in other countries who use all kinds of recreational drugs, too. I think people are forgetting that a religious denomination's official stance rarely has anything to do with the actions of individuals within that religion.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I agree.

But that needs to end. I am all for faith, religion, perfectly fine with it. I have one of my very own. But the moment these things start being used to leverage compliance in a legal sense, that is when liberty is threatened, and the moment when people of all faiths, colours, creeds and political agendas need to come together, and eject its influential figures from power, remove its spore from the law, and return things to a proper state in the legal and political sense.