Question for flat earthers regarding the August 21st Total Solar Eclipse

The August 21st, 2017 solar eclipse will be visible from the entire contiguous United States as well as parts of Canada, Mexico, Caribbean, eastern Europe, and parts of Africa. A narrow corridor through the U.S. will get to see it in totality, meaning the sun will be entirely blocked out for up to 2 minutes and 40 seconds of darkness.

This will indeed be a special event:

The previous time a total solar eclipse was visible across the entire contiguous United States was during the June 8, 1918 eclipse.

For everyone interested in experiencing this event, a simple makeshift way to view it is to stack 2-3 sunglasses on top of each other. I did this for a 2012 eclipse and could see it perfectly.

My questions for flat earthers are:

- Will you be watching the total solar eclipse on August 21st?

- What do you suspect will be actually happening when the sun is blocked out?

- Do you think it will be some kind of illusory projection, or that actual objects hanging in the sky will be manipulated to create the effect?

I feel like this should go without saying, but I'm not trying to poke fun or provoke any flat earthers, I'm genuinely curious as their thoughts and theories of what will/will not happen. Also, if people want to discuss this event without regards to flat earth, that wonn't bother me at all and I won't consider it off-topic.

Ok, so this is how it works. Cut two pieces of paper out into circles them lay them on opposite ends of a flat table, now slide them toward one another. You'll notice that when the two pieces meet one will always slip underneath the other, in this case the moon is always the one that slips underneath the sun.

I'm not sure where the flat Earth would be in comparison to this table with the two pieces of paper on it but I would assume that's how a flat Earther would explain it.

Flat Earth still has no reliable model on how to predict these kinds of events, the spherical Earth is able to predict them flawlessly though. Go figure.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Ok, so this is how it works. Cut two pieces of paper out into circles them lay them on opposite ends of a flat table, now slide them toward one another. You'll notice that when the two pieces meet one will always slip underneath the other, in this case the moon is always the one that slips underneath the sun.

I'm not sure where the flat Earth would be in comparison to this table with the two pieces of paper on it but I would assume that's how a flat Earther would explain it.

Flat Earth still has no reliable model on how to predict these kinds of events, the spherical Earth is able to predict them flawlessly though. Go figure.

Maybe the two pieces of paper are on the wall of the 'dome'? I think that a giant dome is part of flat earth theory, correct me if I'm wrong. I also wonder what these pieces of paper would be made out of, given the size they must be in order to cast a dark shadow over swathes of land that big. A projection of something smaller can only get so dark so that idea sounds less plausible of the two.

a reply to: humanityrising

It is fake. So fake!

a reply to: humanityrising

I have a question for round Earth believers:

If someone honestly believes the Earth is flat, do you really care about their opinion on anything?

a reply to: humanityrising

That makes sense I guess, I think a dome is part of their model if I remember correctly but they are still unable to predict when these sorts of things will happen with their current model. I could be wrong on that but the last I heard (I used to lurk on a flat Earth forum out of curiosity) they couldn't do that.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

I do.

Their belief that the Earth is flat is only one aspect of them out of many aspects. Believing the Earth is flat does not automatically make your opinion on everything else null and void in my opinion.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: humanityrising

I have a question for round Earth believers:

If someone honestly believes the Earth is flat, do you really care about their opinion on anything?

Star for you.
Best response ever!

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Even with that explanation, they would have to explain why the eclipse is experienced in exactly the way it is, to the exact degree and in the exact locations that would be predicted if our current paradigm of planetary motion is not correct.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: humanityrising

I have a question for round Earth believers:

If someone honestly believes the Earth is flat, do you really care about their opinion on anything?

This comment just won the internet. Thread over.

a reply to: Monsieur Neary

Yes, that was the point I was ultimately trying to make. Our models of a spherical Earth can predict these events up to the minute that they happen, flat Earthers have no way of explaining how that's possible if the Earth is not a sphere.

originally posted by: humanityrising

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Ok, so this is how it works. Cut two pieces of paper out into circles them lay them on opposite ends of a flat table, now slide them toward one another. You'll notice that when the two pieces meet one will always slip underneath the other, in this case the moon is always the one that slips underneath the sun.

I'm not sure where the flat Earth would be in comparison to this table with the two pieces of paper on it but I would assume that's how a flat Earther would explain it.

Flat Earth still has no reliable model on how to predict these kinds of events, the spherical Earth is able to predict them flawlessly though. Go figure.

Maybe the two pieces of paper are on the wall of the 'dome'? I think that a giant dome is part of flat earth theory, correct me if I'm wrong. I also wonder what these pieces of paper would be made out of, given the size they must be in order to cast a dark shadow over swathes of land that big. A projection of something smaller can only get so dark so that idea sounds less plausible of the two.

See their still depending on the half-spherical aspect of the "dome"....

My question for them had always been why can't people on Californian beaches see China I the horizon, and did led zeppelin pass through a teleportation field while on tour across the Pacific to their show in Japan?
Also...what about SANTA and the North pole? What do they tell their kids about THAT??

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Well, I respect your open-mindedness.

For me, I simply can't understand the thought process that would convince someone that the Earth is flat in this day and age. I think I would have too much difficulty effectively exchanging ideas with such a person. It would be like an Australian Aborigine and an Eskimo try to understand what the other considers "good weather."

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: humanityrising

That makes sense I guess, I think a dome is part of their model if I remember correctly but they are still unable to predict when these sorts of things will happen with their current model. I could be wrong on that but the last I heard (I used to lurk on a flat Earth forum out of curiosity) they couldn't do that.

Ok, so they think we're basically like one of those snow globes right? So would that mean that in their dome scenario, would the projections be placed in different areas of the dome? I'm having a hard time understanding how else they could explain the entire country being able to view it simultaneously otherwise. If the earth is flat, would one projection cover the whole country? Surely not, right?

a reply to: tigertatzen

I don't have an answer for that and neither do they.

From what I remember that question was asked several times and the answers were usually nonsensical and hard to understand.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I am not convinced on the whole idea the Earth is round or flat. I have not been around the planet, or explored the edge to edge of antartic continent. Nor have I personally gone into orbit to confirm the pictures.

That is the mentality of flat earthers. It's technically an allude to true scientific analyses via personal testing of facts or theories through a controlled experiment.

Now I have been on a plane many times, and many times have seen the curvature of our lovely planet. But a flat earther friend once gave me a list of reasons that flat earther theory might be on to something.
It goes on about what science claims is the exact size of the Earth and based on geometric mathematics due to curvature we should not be able to see things at certain distances due to factual curvature measurements. Basically a vanishing point beyond a certain distances below the horizon due to curvature.

Ok so here's the issue, and their best argument.

You can still see many objects beyond what science claims possible. It does not sink with curvature.i may create a thread in the future with some links in the future of help you all better understand the flat earther mindset, for now the best argument I have given my friend is that he may be higher above sea level than the object or building in question or B. Science is off on the scale of the planet.
Just so you know many flat earthers are not idiots, they just have a list of some inconsistencies in scientific study of our planet, and may be suspicious or confused.

If you want to shut them up. Two things must be done.
1take them into orbit for a spin
2. Kick them out the airlock so they can personally confirm that they are indeed in outer space and thats a window on the shuttle, not ascreen with industrial light and magic behind the curtain.

Or you could find their trip to antartic ride them ocean to ocean. To confirm it's not a wall at the edge of the world.

It's lack of funding for answering their questions that is the problem.
:ham

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yeah...I tried watching a couple videos and reading a couple articles and it just didn't make sense to me. It's fascinating, because these people really believe the Earth is flat. I don't judge them for it...just find it very curious.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Monsieur Neary

Yes, that was the point I was ultimately trying to make. Our models of a spherical Earth can predict these events up to the minute that they happen, flat Earthers have no way of explaining how that's possible if the Earth is not a sphere.

Since you bring that up...

I remember reading decades ago about a similar issue. Back when the scientific debate was about whether the Earth was the center of the Universe or the Sun was the center of the solar system, the problem came up about the apparent retrograde motion of the outer planets like Mars and Jupiter. The Sol-centric theory explained that the planets revolve around the Sun at different speed so the outer planets appeared to go backwards for a short time while the Earth lapped them. Of course, they had the math to back it up where they could predict when and where this phenomenon would occur.

But the Earth-centric side also had developed mathematical equations that explained and predicted the retrograde motion with the Earth at the center. I guess whenever you have a naturally occurring regular event you can always come up with the math to predict it. Both sides thought their explanation had the benefit of mathematical equations and were "the most pleasing to the mind." The Earth-centric side found comfort in the idea that the Earth was the center of the Universe, and the Sol-centric side found the relatively simpler math of our current Solar model more comforting.

One side thought it was all about gravity, but they didn't really understand gravity. The other side thought it was all about God, but they really didn't understand God.

Humans

Those people need medication

a reply to: tigertatzen

I dont judge either but do like a good debate every now and then, and evidently there are quite a few people that believe this, or at least pretend to believe. Its not just about astronomy its about plate tectonics too. They can never adequately explain continental drift, earth quakes, ocean fossils found at high elevations among a host of other understood natural phenomenon. Sometimes I think the game isn't about the debate it's about standing firm against over whelming evidence to the contrary, without admitting they were wrong.