Please wake up, Americans. You are absolutely being suckered, used, and bled dry by Donald Trumo

a reply to: Dimens

Well that's on them for allowing themselves to be "bullied away" then..if they had good solid arguments to make their case,why should they have felt intimidated?

originally posted by: RazorV66

Jesus Christ....not the 3 million more votes story again?
For anyone not following along for the last 8-9 months....that is why we have the Electoral College.
Commiefornia(I really like whoever came up with that name) shouldn't get to elect a President by themselves.

It is a fundamental point about what democracy means and if we want to have half a brain each, the question is never going to go away.

Obviously everyone knows about the electoral college - that is how Trump got there, we do realise that.

The fundamental question which will not go away is ...

... how can a nation which calls itself a democracy, based upon populism itself - the fundamental idea of the choice of the people - have a president and main party voted by millions less than the losers?

Democracy to most people means populism - choice of the majority.

It is possible to retain the electoral college system with newer vote transfer systems accurately reflecting what the majority of American people voted for.

In the UK, there was a referendum last year about whether to stay in or leave the European Union.
What kind of referendum (expression of the people's choice) would it be if "leave" had gained 3 million more votes than "stay", but some archaic systems made for a bygone era, forced the UK to stay in the EU?

Similarly, in the Scottish independence referendum there a couple of years ago, what nonsense would it be to choose the option which got many percentage points less than the biggest voted option?

We know about the electoral colleges - made for a different era, and which today fan easily be improved to reflect real democratic choices.

a reply to: bw1000

Not get y'all into a war with Russia maybe,just off the top of my head?

a reply to: bw1000

You can post whatever nonsense you want but I would vote for Trump in 2020 just because it would be funny watching progressives freak out even more. Definitely someone similar in 2024 and beyond.

We know it was the right choice based on the squawking of the media.

a reply to: FissionSurplus

I guess they finally "woke" to the fact that people in high offices in the government don't always get to follow through on what they say when they campaign either because they never intended to or because it becomes a whole different ballgame when all the other politicos get involved in DC.

I wonder why none of them "woke" when Obama was in office, and I wonder how quickly they will all fall asleep again as soon as "their" guy/gal/person is elected to a term?

Maybe that's why I continue to be more or less unimpressed by these epic threads.

a reply to: bw1000

... how can a nation which calls itself a democracy, based upon populism itself - the fundamental idea of the choice of the people - have a president and main party voted by millions less than the losers? Democracy to most people means populism - choice of the majority.

This is not factual.

If you want to split hairs 45% of voters didn't even vote, they would make up the majority. IE: No confidence.

originally posted by: Raxoxane
a reply to: Dimens

Well that's on them for allowing themselves to be "bullied away" then..if they had good solid arguments to make their case,why should they have felt intimidated?

At the same time, maybe there isn't too much point in arguing with certain types of people.
Not everyone has that kind of perseverance.

At school and college, some people take logic or debate classes or classes designed to allow you to argue by cutting off your own, personal point of view and concentrating on the merits of the arguments and points.

To allow you to get in the way of ending up with a conclusion FROM arguments, based upon arguments.
Rather than start with a conclusion and make arguments to support it.
To teach more objectivity, and releasing the subjective opinions whuch can hinder us as much as be an attribute to us at times.

Unfortunately some people just don't fit into that kind of context.
They are unable to.
Their minds are made up.
They say things they get emotional even, but they are never actually able to debate objectively.
They cannot be detached from something in their heads whuch gives them a glow - then every word which follows is "confirmation bias" to support what makes them glow.
... Without really thinking.

It's just how some people are.

With Trump as a subject, you can expect so many people supporting him to be like this.

Who really wants to argue with that?
Is it even possible?

I thought my rant about him being an ultra-elitist, which he is, and trying to ask why on earth do people think is for "the common man" would at least maybe have a few people have some second thoughts.

Try it.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: Bigburgh

originally posted by: IAMTAT
This Trumo guy sounds awful.

Why is there a picture of Donald Trump with a fake quote on your OP?

And so out of sick curiosity. I googled trumo...
www.google.com...

Edit: Trumo fills in trump... having a lynard skinard moment..😊

Try Hobama

Aaannd I did just that.
Holy sheet

Fake quote + hatred of rich people = Trump

a reply to: bw1000

We're not a democracy.

We're a representative republic.

Your democracy is two wolves and a rabbit voting to what to have for dinner.

a reply to: bw1000

Thanks for the good reply.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: bw1000

We're not a democracy.

We're a representative republic.

Your democracy is two wolves and a rabbit voting to what to have for dinner.

Interesting that one party is called The Democratic Party and the other called The Republican Party.

"Were not a democracy".

The Republicans are usually more subtle than that, however, whatever it is that they want.

Do you think American people want a democracy, a true democracy, or not?

originally posted by: bw1000

originally posted by: RazorV66

Jesus Christ....not the 3 million more votes story again?
For anyone not following along for the last 8-9 months....that is why we have the Electoral College.
Commiefornia(I really like whoever came up with that name) shouldn't get to elect a President by themselves.

It is a fundamental point about what democracy means and if we want to have half a brain each, the question is never going to go away.

Obviously everyone knows about the electoral college - that is how Trump got there, we do realise that.

The fundamental question which will not go away is ...

... how can a nation which calls itself a democracy, based upon populism itself - the fundamental idea of the choice of the people - have a president and main party voted by millions less than the losers?

Democracy to most people means populism - choice of the majority.

It is possible to retain the electoral college system with newer vote transfer systems accurately reflecting what the majority of American people voted for.

In the UK, there was a referendum last year about whether to stay in or leave the European Union.
What kind of referendum (expression of the people's choice) would it be if "leave" had gained 3 million more votes than "stay", but some archaic systems made for a bygone era, forced the UK to stay in the EU?

Similarly, in the Scottish independence referendum there a couple of years ago, what nonsense would it be to choose the option which got many percentage points less than the biggest voted option?

We know about the electoral colleges - made for a different era, and which today fan easily be improved to reflect real democratic choices.

The United States of America is a Republic!

What freaking school did you go to?

If you paid, demand your money back!

Democracy is MOB rules!

By God our educational system has most certainly failed with posts like this!

a reply to: bw1000

We have a process for changing the Constitution. They're called Amendments.

But no. I think most people would prefer the representative republic.

originally posted by: seeker1963

The United States of America is a Republic!

What freaking school did you go to?

If you paid, demand your money back!

Democracy is MOB rules!

By God our educational system has most certainly failed with posts like this!

"I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that. A common definition of “democracy” is, “Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives” — we are that, too.

"The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote."

... Etc

Have a read. It's good reading.

(Maybe better than slanging stuff about "freaking schools.".
Yes, there are reasons why a lot have abandoned Above Top Secret, as I said above - but maybe it need not be that way.)


Is the United States a Republic or a Democracy? Washington Post.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: bw1000

We have a process for changing the Constitution. They're called Amendments.

But no. I think most people would prefer the representative republic.

Any evidence?
Is it what you prefer, also?
Interesting.

originally posted by: bw1000

originally posted by: seeker1963

The United States of America is a Republic!

What freaking school did you go to?

If you paid, demand your money back!

Democracy is MOB rules!

By God our educational system has most certainly failed with posts like this!

Try reading the Constitution instead of an article from the Washington Post!



"I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that. A common definition of “democracy” is, “Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives” — we are that, too.

"The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote."

... Etc

Have a read. It's good reading.

(Maybe better than slanging stuff about "freaking schools.".
Yes, there are reasons why a lot have abandoned Above Top Secret, as I said above - but maybe it need not be that way.)


Is the United States a Republic or a Democracy? Washington Post.

Try reading the Constitution instead of an article from the Washington Post. After all our government and laws our founded on the Constitution, not a fake news site that hates our country and it's values.

originally posted by: seeker1963


Try reading the Constitution instead of an article from the Washington Post. After all our government and laws our founded on the Constitution, not a fake news site that hates our country and it's values.

"Fake news" when you don't like a scholarly publication.
It sounds familiar.

You think the sources in that article are made up?

a reply to: seeker1963

I was born in the United Kingdom.
It is officially, by its Constitution, a monarchy.

To claim it is actually a practising monarchy though is ridiculous.
For a start, not only does The Queen, or King, have NO POLITICAL POWER nor ANY POWER whatsoever, moreover, it is against the law of the nation for her to publicly make any political views or expressions at all of any type or favouring.

There there is the opposite of a functioning Monarchy - the very opposite.
Still, by the Constitution, it is officially a monarchy.

It is a good comparison.

a reply to: bw1000

May I politely ask your age, political affiliation and general consensus on America as it stands?