Proving Spontaneity of Post-Impact WTC Towers Collapse

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Behind Purdue's computing simulation on the 2001 World Trade Center attack
www.zdnet.com...

Is there a YouTube link For this? The site you linked is asking me to download.

Your first problem, the first place you seek knowledge is on YouTube? You know there is a whole word of academics that you either have to have journal subscriptions, or go to a college library to study the material.

Your second problem, actually do real research. Stop being spoon feed by conspiracy sites that seek likes and hits by sensationalizing innuendo.

Mechanics of the WTC collapse
link.springer.com...

How did the WTC towers collapse: a new theory

www.sciencedirect.com...


Abstract
This paper uses a finite-element model to investigate the stability of the Twin-Towers of the World Trade Center, New York for a number of different fire scenarios. This investigation does not take into account the structural damage caused by the terrorist attack. However, the fire scenarios included are based upon the likely fires that could have occurred as a result of the attack. A number of different explanations of how and why the Towers collapsed have appeared since the event. None of these however have adequately focused on the most important issue, namely ‘what structural mechanisms led to the state which triggered the collapse’....


The analysis results show a simple but unmistakable collapse mechanism that owes as much (or more) to the geometric thermal expansion effects as it does to the material effects of loss of strength and stiffness. The collapse mechanism discovered is a simple stability failure directly related to the effect of heating (fire). Additionally, the mechanism is not dependent upon failure of structural connections.

So you have no video?

You could have just said that but you like to waist everyone's time, I see.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Can you at least post the WTC 7 research submitted under deposition for a lawsuit?

What’s AE answer to the cause of destruction at the WTC? Mythical fizzle no flash explosives? Can you cite a specific models by AE way the towers or WTC 7 collapsed?

By: benthamitemetric
www.metabunk.org...
www.metabunk.org...

ae911-truths-wtc7-evaluation-computer-modelling-project.t5627/page-31
www.metabunk.org...
www.metabunk.org...

Each of the the NIST, Arup, and WAI studies were conducted by multiple PhDs with expertise in forensic engineering, tall building engineering or fire science, and the NIST WTC7 report was also independently peer reviewed by the Journal of Structural Engineering (whose editors and peer reviewers have similar levels of expertise), while not a single expert on forensic engineering, tall building engineering or fire science

There is only a single study (Hulsey's) that purports to reach a conclusion contrary to what the other studies have concluded re the vulnerability of WTC7 to progressive collapse from reasonable fire scenarios.

You keep mentioning AE like I have any idea what they are talking about. Is that organization some thing your linked too. What's with the emphasism?

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Can you at least post the WTC 7 research submitted under deposition for a lawsuit?

What’s AE answer to the cause of destruction at the WTC? Mythical fizzle no flash explosives? Can you cite a specific models by AE way the towers or WTC 7 collapsed?

By: benthamitemetric
www.metabunk.org...
www.metabunk.org...

ae911-truths-wtc7-evaluation-computer-modelling-project.t5627/page-31
www.metabunk.org...
www.metabunk.org...

Each of the the NIST, Arup, and WAI studies were conducted by multiple PhDs with expertise in forensic engineering, tall building engineering or fire science, and the NIST WTC7 report was also independently peer reviewed by the Journal of Structural Engineering (whose editors and peer reviewers have similar levels of expertise), while not a single expert on forensic engineering, tall building engineering or fire science

There is only a single study (Hulsey's) that purports to reach a conclusion contrary to what the other studies have concluded re the vulnerability of WTC7 to progressive collapse from reasonable fire scenarios.

You keep mentioning AE like I have any idea what they are talking about. Is that organization some thing your linked too. What's with the emphasism?

Then what is a theory with more credibility to supersede impact/fire/ thermal stress causing inward bowing and buckling leading to tower collapse.


AE, as in Architects and Engineersare, one of the leading groups that have spread the most lies about the collapse of the twin towers to push conspiracy theories? To exploit 9/11 for profit?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Do you research any of the information and conflicting views regarding the physics/ physical evidence of 9/11?

Do you understand the truth movement is full of con artists? And people blindly follow the personalities of the truth movement?

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Behind Purdue's computing simulation on the 2001 World Trade Center attack
www.zdnet.com...

Is there a YouTube link For this? The site you linked is asking me to download.

Your first problem, the first place you seek knowledge is on YouTube? You know there is a whole word of academics that you either have to have journal subscriptions, or go to a college library to study the material.

Your second problem, actually do real research. Stop being spoon feed by conspiracy sites that seek likes and hits by sensationalizing innuendo.

Mechanics of the WTC collapse
link.springer.com...

How did the WTC towers collapse: a new theory

www.sciencedirect.com...


Abstract
This paper uses a finite-element model to investigate the stability of the Twin-Towers of the World Trade Center, New York for a number of different fire scenarios. This investigation does not take into account the structural damage caused by the terrorist attack. However, the fire scenarios included are based upon the likely fires that could have occurred as a result of the attack. A number of different explanations of how and why the Towers collapsed have appeared since the event. None of these however have adequately focused on the most important issue, namely ‘what structural mechanisms led to the state which triggered the collapse’....


The analysis results show a simple but unmistakable collapse mechanism that owes as much (or more) to the geometric thermal expansion effects as it does to the material effects of loss of strength and stiffness. The collapse mechanism discovered is a simple stability failure directly related to the effect of heating (fire). Additionally, the mechanism is not dependent upon failure of structural connections.

So you have no video?

You could have just said that but you like to waist everyone's time, I see.

Did you claim there was no other WTC modeling other than NIST? How is that working out for you?

Are you literally that graphic? I can get you cartoons of pigs flying?


The actual video is for a visual effect.

True or false....
It’s the logged and documented data against the applied theory and how the model supports or disproves the reason the model was created in the first place that is important. Not the visual aspect. The Modelling of stress, force, twist, thermal stress, pressure, movement, contraction, etc....... and how the modeled items relate to the collapse.


Google Purdue WTC and see how many links are presented? Are you saying you cannot even do that much digging into a subject you are posting on?

Little hint. I stopped taking everything posted at ATS as face value long time ago. I like to verify the information I debate on before I use it. Or remark on it.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: MrBig2430

Yeah, sometimes I’ll attempt to bring some facts to light, if it seems as if the other person is woefully misinformed. 

But like I’ve said, the facts have been out there to be discovered for quite a while now. And if you’re well adjusted and intelligent enough, then you can’t have these 9/11 was an inside job thoughts. That’s just how I see it

Son, I have been watching 9/11 threads on this board for more than 15years. Nothing I ask for is found in your cue cards.

How do you know that whatever it is that you’re asking for is of any relevance?

Show me a computer generated visual dramatization of the towers collapsing. It was a popular event. Surely a hobbiest or college student must have put something together by now.

I'll wait.

So why haven’t you in 15 years, if it’s so important to you?

Are you that lazy?

If there is evidence, I hope it never comes to light. That would be disastrous for the entire world.

I want to see the video for entertainment purposes.

So then make it yourself.

But that isn’t gonna happen for that’s a truther hallmark. Laziness

That s not going to happen

Yes, we all know that you’ll do nothing.

because I don't have the qualifications to make one.

In 15 years you could have taken classes and be qualified and rather experienced by now.

But again, you’ll actually do nothing.

Laziness is.......

Requesting others to produce something to satisfy your desires, when much more satisfaction is realized by doing it yourself.


But enough of all this video nonsense.


What evidence are you asking/confused about but have never been shown? And why is it important to the general story about 9/11?

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: MrBig2430

Yeah, sometimes I’ll attempt to bring some facts to light, if it seems as if the other person is woefully misinformed. 

But like I’ve said, the facts have been out there to be discovered for quite a while now. And if you’re well adjusted and intelligent enough, then you can’t have these 9/11 was an inside job thoughts. That’s just how I see it

Son, I have been watching 9/11 threads on this board for more than 15years. Nothing I ask for is found in your cue cards.

How do you know that whatever it is that you’re asking for is of any relevance?

Show me a computer generated visual dramatization of the towers collapsing. It was a popular event. Surely a hobbiest or college student must have put something together by now.

I'll wait.

So why haven’t you in 15 years, if it’s so important to you?

Are you that lazy?

If there is evidence, I hope it never comes to light. That would be disastrous for the entire world.

I want to see the video for entertainment purposes.

So then make it yourself.

But that isn’t gonna happen for that’s a truther hallmark. Laziness

That s not going to happen

Yes, we all know that you’ll do nothing.

because I don't have the qualifications to make one.

In 15 years you could have taken classes and be qualified and rather experienced by now.

But again, you’ll actually do nothing.

Laziness is.......

Requesting others to produce something to satisfy your desires, when much more satisfaction is realized by doing it yourself.


But enough of all this video nonsense.


What evidence are you asking/confused about but have never been shown? And why is it important to the general story about 9/11?

Well thanks for the pep talk but maybe you missed my post earlier where I mentioned that if there is any evidence against the OS I hope it is never found.

If you had read that you would have known that what you just said was complete rubbish, or you really are a complete idiot.

If you can't produce what I asked then tell me you don't want to or you can't and why if you feel like it. Otherwise shove off with your cue cards. Your of no interest to me.

a reply to: neutronflux

Then what is a theory with more credibility to supersede impact/fire/ thermal stress causing inward bowing and buckling leading to tower collapse.

Credibility? None. If you define credible by having an official seal and academic acceptance which makes it a historical fact. There is no denying it.

Believable? I like to keep that close to my chest.

And if your wondering if I follow AE? No. I was bored of this topic long before they showed up. Yeah, they are likely here to pick at the scraps.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Behind Purdue's computing simulation on the 2001 World Trade Center attack
www.zdnet.com...

Is there a YouTube link For this? The site you linked is asking me to download.

Your first problem, the first place you seek knowledge is on YouTube? You know there is a whole word of academics that you either have to have journal subscriptions, or go to a college library to study the material.

Your second problem, actually do real research. Stop being spoon feed by conspiracy sites that seek likes and hits by sensationalizing innuendo.

Mechanics of the WTC collapse
link.springer.com...

How did the WTC towers collapse: a new theory

www.sciencedirect.com...


Abstract
This paper uses a finite-element model to investigate the stability of the Twin-Towers of the World Trade Center, New York for a number of different fire scenarios. This investigation does not take into account the structural damage caused by the terrorist attack. However, the fire scenarios included are based upon the likely fires that could have occurred as a result of the attack. A number of different explanations of how and why the Towers collapsed have appeared since the event. None of these however have adequately focused on the most important issue, namely ‘what structural mechanisms led to the state which triggered the collapse’....


The analysis results show a simple but unmistakable collapse mechanism that owes as much (or more) to the geometric thermal expansion effects as it does to the material effects of loss of strength and stiffness. The collapse mechanism discovered is a simple stability failure directly related to the effect of heating (fire). Additionally, the mechanism is not dependent upon failure of structural connections.

So you have no video?

You could have just said that but you like to waist everyone's time, I see.

Did you claim there was no other WTC modeling other than NIST? How is that working out for you?

Are you literally that graphic? I can get you cartoons of pigs flying?


The actual video is for a visual effect.

True or false....
It’s the logged and documented data against the applied theory and how the model supports or disproves the reason the model was created in the first place that is important. Not the visual aspect. The Modelling of stress, force, twist, thermal stress, pressure, movement, contraction, etc....... and how the modeled items relate to the collapse.


Google Purdue WTC and see how many links are presented? Are you saying you cannot even do that much digging into a subject you are posting on?

Little hint. I stopped taking everything posted at ATS as face value long time ago. I like to verify the information I debate on before I use it. Or remark on it.

Well there is no need to get nasty.

You can't find the video. Sorry I asked. It's fine.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: MrBig2430

Yeah, sometimes I’ll attempt to bring some facts to light, if it seems as if the other person is woefully misinformed. 

But like I’ve said, the facts have been out there to be discovered for quite a while now. And if you’re well adjusted and intelligent enough, then you can’t have these 9/11 was an inside job thoughts. That’s just how I see it

Son, I have been watching 9/11 threads on this board for more than 15years. Nothing I ask for is found in your cue cards.

How do you know that whatever it is that you’re asking for is of any relevance?

Show me a computer generated visual dramatization of the towers collapsing. It was a popular event. Surely a hobbiest or college student must have put something together by now.

I'll wait.

So why haven’t you in 15 years, if it’s so important to you?

Are you that lazy?

If there is evidence, I hope it never comes to light. That would be disastrous for the entire world.

I want to see the video for entertainment purposes.

So then make it yourself.

But that isn’t gonna happen for that’s a truther hallmark. Laziness

That s not going to happen

Yes, we all know that you’ll do nothing.

because I don't have the qualifications to make one.

In 15 years you could have taken classes and be qualified and rather experienced by now.

But again, you’ll actually do nothing.

Laziness is.......

Requesting others to produce something to satisfy your desires, when much more satisfaction is realized by doing it yourself.


But enough of all this video nonsense.


What evidence are you asking/confused about but have never been shown? And why is it important to the general story about 9/11?

maybe you missed my post earlier where I mentioned that if there is any evidence against the OS I hope it is never found.

No, I didn’t miss the drama.

Cuz that’s exactly what this statement is. Nothing of substance. All drama.

If you had read that you would have known that what you just said was complete rubbish,

Most would call it the truth

You’re lazy. You want this. You want that. Gimme gimme gimme. No effort to produce the thing you want.

None

If you can't produce what I asked then tell me you don't want to or you can't and why if you feel like it.

Cuz contrary to how you appear to think, you don’t deserve a thing. Your opinion about the value of some video is inconsequential until you can say exactly why you feel it’s so important. And even then, it still may be inconsequential.

State your case.

Otherwise shove off

No.

You’re an easy target.

You desire a video but can’t/ won’t state why it would be a game changer - which of course means it wouldn’t.

IOW, you’re being a drama queen

You want to prove the OS wrong but fear for civilization or some such garbage.

IOW, you’re being a drama queen.

Your of no interest to me.

Oh, but low hanging fruit such as yourself interests me cuz it’s so easy to point out the irrationality, self absorption, and laziness that is a hallmark of a typical 9/11 was an inside job believer.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Quote where I ever said offical seal equals credibility? False argument by you.

The point is there is a whole library of scientific research that is published in journals ignored by the truth movement. A movement that hides facts.

Using items out of context? Sign of a typical conspiracist.

Again, you claimed only NIST modeled the WTC? Is it true or false NIST is the only one that has modeled the WTC?

False argument by you.

I have weighed the difference explanations.

The start of the collapse of tower 2 is seen in the video in this thread. Please explain what is the cause of the inward bowing and buckling.

the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/
www.metabunk.org...

a reply to: MALBOSIA
Are you one of those individuals that is not going to post or cite any information on the WTC in the spirit of advancing the WTC debate? Out of intellectual honesty?

Or you going to keep posting emotional based statements, misquotes for a bid of attention?

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: MrBig2430

Yeah, sometimes I’ll attempt to bring some facts to light, if it seems as if the other person is woefully misinformed. 

But like I’ve said, the facts have been out there to be discovered for quite a while now. And if you’re well adjusted and intelligent enough, then you can’t have these 9/11 was an inside job thoughts. That’s just how I see it

Son, I have been watching 9/11 threads on this board for more than 15years. Nothing I ask for is found in your cue cards.

How do you know that whatever it is that you’re asking for is of any relevance?

Show me a computer generated visual dramatization of the towers collapsing. It was a popular event. Surely a hobbiest or college student must have put something together by now.

I'll wait.

So why haven’t you in 15 years, if it’s so important to you?

Are you that lazy?

If there is evidence, I hope it never comes to light. That would be disastrous for the entire world.

I want to see the video for entertainment purposes.

So then make it yourself.

But that isn’t gonna happen for that’s a truther hallmark. Laziness

That s not going to happen

Yes, we all know that you’ll do nothing.

because I don't have the qualifications to make one.

In 15 years you could have taken classes and be qualified and rather experienced by now.

But again, you’ll actually do nothing.

Laziness is.......

Requesting others to produce something to satisfy your desires, when much more satisfaction is realized by doing it yourself.


But enough of all this video nonsense.


What evidence are you asking/confused about but have never been shown? And why is it important to the general story about 9/11?

maybe you missed my post earlier where I mentioned that if there is any evidence against the OS I hope it is never found.

No, I didn’t miss the drama.

Cuz that’s exactly what this statement is. Nothing of substance. All drama.

If you had read that you would have known that what you just said was complete rubbish,

Most would call it the truth

You’re lazy. You want this. You want that. Gimme gimme gimme. No effort to produce the thing you want.

None

If you can't produce what I asked then tell me you don't want to or you can't and why if you feel like it.

Cuz contrary to how you appear to think, you don’t deserve a thing. Your opinion about the value of some video is inconsequential until you can say exactly why you feel it’s so important. And even then, it still may be inconsequential.

State your case.

Otherwise shove off

No.

You’re an easy target.

You desire a video but can’t/ won’t state why it would be a game changer - which of course means it wouldn’t.

IOW, you’re being a drama queen

You want to prove the OS wrong but fear for civilization or some such garbage.

IOW, you’re being a drama queen.

Your of no interest to me.

Oh, but low hanging fruit such as yourself interests me cuz it’s so easy to point out the irrationality, self absorption, and laziness that is a hallmark of a typical 9/11 was an inside job believer.

So IOW, You can't find a video.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA
Are you one of those individuals that is not going to post or cite any information on the WTC in the spirit of advancing the WTC debate? Out of intellectual honesty?

Or you going to keep posting emotional based statements, misquotes for a bid of attention?

So you can't find a video?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

What does video have to do with anything? Please lay out the logic? Are you saying Perdue did not model the WTC Towers?

Are you saying WTC 7 structural failure was not modeled for the Aegis lawsuit in any way?

Are you saying independent universities and studies have not modeled the towers?

True or False, I provided a quote from a published WTC Tower study that used modeling for your benefit in this thread.

Is your argument NIST is absolutely the only entity that modeled the WTC collapsed in anyway?

Please present what your actual argument is?

The actual collapse, the inward bowing and the buckling leading up to collapse is actually part of the video evidence? You can actually use real video evidence. Video evidence that does not support CD. Mainly there is no audible evidence of any explosions after the jet impacts capable of cutting steel, no indication of a pressure wave strong enough to cut steel, no windows being blown out, no demolitions shrapnel being forcefully expelled.

The Perdue model is easy to find if you simple use google.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA
Are you one of those individuals that is not going to post or cite any information on the WTC in the spirit of advancing the WTC debate? Out of intellectual honesty?

Or you going to keep posting emotional based statements, misquotes for a bid of attention?

So you can't find a video?

You cannot find a video saying there is no video?

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA
Are you one of those individuals that is not going to post or cite any information on the WTC in the spirit of advancing the WTC debate? Out of intellectual honesty?

Or you going to keep posting emotional based statements, misquotes for a bid of attention?

So you can't find a video?

You cannot find a video saying there is no video?

Good call. I'll let you know if I do.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Do you have anything of substance to add to the WTC debate?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Do you have anything of substance to add to the WTC debate?

Not if I have to make my own video.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: MrBig2430

Yeah, sometimes I’ll attempt to bring some facts to light, if it seems as if the other person is woefully misinformed. 

But like I’ve said, the facts have been out there to be discovered for quite a while now. And if you’re well adjusted and intelligent enough, then you can’t have these 9/11 was an inside job thoughts. That’s just how I see it

Son, I have been watching 9/11 threads on this board for more than 15years. Nothing I ask for is found in your cue cards.

How do you know that whatever it is that you’re asking for is of any relevance?

Show me a computer generated visual dramatization of the towers collapsing. It was a popular event. Surely a hobbiest or college student must have put something together by now.

I'll wait.

So why haven’t you in 15 years, if it’s so important to you?

Are you that lazy?

If there is evidence, I hope it never comes to light. That would be disastrous for the entire world.

I want to see the video for entertainment purposes.

So then make it yourself.

But that isn’t gonna happen for that’s a truther hallmark. Laziness

That s not going to happen

Yes, we all know that you’ll do nothing.

because I don't have the qualifications to make one.

In 15 years you could have taken classes and be qualified and rather experienced by now.

But again, you’ll actually do nothing.

Laziness is.......

Requesting others to produce something to satisfy your desires, when much more satisfaction is realized by doing it yourself.


But enough of all this video nonsense.


What evidence are you asking/confused about but have never been shown? And why is it important to the general story about 9/11?

maybe you missed my post earlier where I mentioned that if there is any evidence against the OS I hope it is never found.

No, I didn’t miss the drama.

Cuz that’s exactly what this statement is. Nothing of substance. All drama.

If you had read that you would have known that what you just said was complete rubbish,

Most would call it the truth

You’re lazy. You want this. You want that. Gimme gimme gimme. No effort to produce the thing you want.

None

If you can't produce what I asked then tell me you don't want to or you can't and why if you feel like it.

Cuz contrary to how you appear to think, you don’t deserve a thing. Your opinion about the value of some video is inconsequential until you can say exactly why you feel it’s so important. And even then, it still may be inconsequential.

State your case.

Otherwise shove off

No.

You’re an easy target.

You desire a video but can’t/ won’t state why it would be a game changer - which of course means it wouldn’t.

IOW, you’re being a drama queen

You want to prove the OS wrong but fear for civilization or some such garbage.

IOW, you’re being a drama queen.

Your of no interest to me.

Oh, but low hanging fruit such as yourself interests me cuz it’s so easy to point out the irrationality, self absorption, and laziness that is a hallmark of a typical 9/11 was an inside job believer.

So IOW, You can't find a video.

Who would even try to honor your request when you can’t honor my request that you tell us all why it, or any of this ( so far ) mysterious evidence that you say you seek would be a game changer.

Anything you request regarding videos, or pics, or xxxxfrom others has zero value, and here’s why.

Either:

1- you’re wrong about 9/11 and it wasn’t an inside job. So any evidence that you say you want to see doesn’t exist - for example, a hi res video of the Pentagon plane. Or, if this evidence if miraculously found it will be dismissed as all other evidence is handled now - indeed I’m quite sure you goofballs will declare it further proof that 9/11 was an inside job.

2- you’re right and 9/11 was an inside job. So whatever evidence you say you want to see is deemed to dangerous and so it remains hidden. Or, they decide to fake it up to satisfy you, but as above, it will be dismissed.

So what’s the result of all this crying and teeth gnashing?

Nothing.

If you don’t get your evidence you don’t change your mind.

If you do, it’s dismissed as it is now and you don’t change your mind.

Conclusion- go do your own work and quit being so damn lazy.