Oregon bill decriminalizes possession of Drugs

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: underwerks

It doesn't need to be painted...Anyone with eyes can see the real thing all the damn time. It's disgusting. How you see more drugs as some kind of utopian paradise is beyond me.

You couldn't put enough miles between me and your ideology

That's your opinion. And it shouldn't be on you or the government to legislate your morality or lack thereof on anyone else.

The simple fact is that consenting adults will always find whatever drugs they are looking for. Always. Regardless of the law or people like you who look down on them as less than people. And the illegality of drugs breeds the dangerousness we see today.

A nationwide epidemic of people overdosing on fentanyl, because of tainted drugs on the black market. Not to mention the disease that is spread in places that think they're "helping" people by not giving them access to clean needles and health programs.

Your attitude is a result of over 100 years of propaganda gone to seed. And is our main obstacle to actually turning this country around and making life better for everyone.

The truth is, if your way worked, it would have already worked by now. The Harrison Act was passed in 1915, and it obviously hasn't made a difference in the least. The drug problem has only gotten worse.

originally posted by: underwerks



Your attitude is a result of over 100 years of propaganda gone to seed.

Nope. It's the result of having to work in crackhouses and pothead compounds on a daily basis. Hell yeah I look down.

You're just trying to reconcile your lifestyle with the rest of the world. The rest of the world doesn't exactly share your outlook though.

Propaganda my foot! Can't you just accept that people generally don't want to deal with friggin' habitual drug users?

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Xcathdra

First off, your knowledge of pharmacology seems to be lacking. No drug, including PCP, reroutes your pain response so it's perceived as a color or smell.

synesthesia - source

Synesthesia (also spelled synæsthesia or synaesthesia; from the Ancient Greek σύν syn, "together", and αἴσθησις aisthēsis, "sensation") is a perceptual phenomenon in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive pathway leads to automatic, involuntary experiences in a second sensory or cognitive pathway. People who report a lifelong history of such experiences are known as synesthetes.

In one common form of synesthesia, known as grapheme-color synesthesia or color-graphemic synesthesia, letters or numbers are perceived as inherently colored. In spatial-sequence, or number form synesthesia, numbers, months of the year, and/or days of the week elicit precise locations in space (for example, 1980 may be "farther away" than 1990), or may appear as a three-dimensional map (clockwise or counterclockwise). Synesthetic associations can occur in any combination and any number of senses or cognitive pathways.

Chemical induction - source

Despite the consensus regarding the developmental origins of synaesthesia, the transient induction of synaesthesia with chemical agents has been known about since the beginning of scientific research on psychedelic drugs (e.g., Ellis, 1898). Since this time, numerous observations attest to a wide range of psychoactive substances that give rise to a range of synaesthesias, however, there has been scant systematic quantitative research conducted to explore this phenomenon, leaving somewhat of a lacuna in our understanding of the neurochemical factors involved and whether such phenomena constitute genuine synaesthesia. A number of recent theories of synaesthesia implicate particular neurochemicals and thus the possible pharmacological induction of synaesthesia may lend insights into the neurochemical basis of this condition. For instance, disinhibition theories, which propose that synaesthesia arises from a disruption in inhibitory activity, implicate attenuated γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) in synaesthesia (Hubbard et al., 2011), whereas Brang and Ramachandran (2008) have specifically hypothesized a role for serotonin in synaesthesia. Furthermore, the chemical induction of synaesthesia may permit investigating experimental questions that have hitherto been impossible with congenital synaesthetes (see Terhune et al., 2014).

Drug types that can induce synaesthesia - source

The majority of the studies and case reports relate to just three psychedelic substances—lysergic acid diethylamide (LsD), mescaline, and psilocybin. However, some data is also available for ketamine, ayahuasca, MDMA, as well as less common substances such as 4-HO-MET, ibogaine, Ipomoea purpurea, amyl nitrate, Salvia divinorum, in addition to the occasional reference to more commonly used drugs such as alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, cannabis, fluoxetine, and buproprion.

Hallucinogens that are manufactured chemicals and not found in nature are:

'___', also called acid
MDMA, an amphetamine, called ecstasy or Molly (for molecular)
PCP (phencyclidine), often called angel dust
Ketamine
DXM (dextromethorphan, found in cough medicines)

All of these agents act as neurotransmitter mimics, often as agonists or antagonists at neurotransmitter receptors. These agents cause their effects by disrupting the neurotransmission and interaction of nerve cells.

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha

originally posted by: underwerks



Your attitude is a result of over 100 years of propaganda gone to seed.

Nope. It's the result of having to work in crackhouses on a daily basis. Hell yeah I look down.

You're just trying to reconcile your lifestyle with the rest of the world. The rest of the world doesn't exactly share your outlook though.

Propaganda my foot! Can't you just accept that people generally don't want to deal with friggin' habitual drug users?

And those crack houses and everything bad that goes along with them are a product of prohibition, and dangerous drugs being forced underground. Kind of how people were being poisoned from methanol being mixed with whiskey during prohibition. We see the same thing today with hard drugs.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the most dangerous drugs are as dangerous as they are because of the environment around them. When you remove the dangerous environment and the taboo factor, the dangers associated and the desire to do them plummets. As can be seen in Portugal-

Drug use has declined overall among the 15- to 24-year-old population, those most at risk of initiating drug use, according to Transform.

There has also been a decline in the percentage of the population who have ever used a drug and then continue to do so:

Link

a reply to: Xcathdra

I have synaesthesia naturally, and in no way is the pain response incorporated into it at all. Naturally, or chemically induced.

You're talking about two different things.

a reply to: underwerks

I dont believe I am... Synaesthesia can be chemically induced by certain drugs (listed above).

Synesthetic associations can occur in any combination and any number of senses or cognitive pathways.

ARIDE / DRE training touches on this topic.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: CreationBro

Guessing youre ok with all of the "legal" drugs aka Px medications that big pharma profits off of the mass addictions and death caused by them?

You're guessing wrong.

I abhor big pharma.

Doesn't mean I think street drugs should be legalized.

Only reason I pot should be legalized in my opinion is it does have medicinal value.

Or so I've heard.

My question was more rhetorical, but im glad to hear that.

Cannabis does indeed have medicinal value, and i suspect some other scheduled drugs may have medicinal uses as well, based on some research ive read as well as personal observations. Maybe not in the form availble to people now, but analogues.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: underwerks

I dont believe I am... Synaesthesia can be chemically induced by certain drugs (listed above).

Synesthetic associations can occur in any combination and any number of senses or cognitive pathways.

ARIDE / DRE training touches on this topic.

Synaesthesia can be induced by certain substances, but synaesthesia has nothing to do with the pain response.

They are two different neurological processes. That certain psychedelics can blur sights and sounds and smells means only that, that it can blur certain sights and sounds and smells.

That doesn't apply to the pain response. Brain chemistry isn't a one size fits all type of thing, where something that applies over there applies over here in the same way.

a reply to: underwerks

Pain to Color Synesthesia: Pain to color synesthesia is a form of synesthesia where pain is perceived as a particular color. Synesthesia is a relatively common perceptual anomaly where a stimulus of one of the senses (e.g. hearing) results in an experience or sensation in another sensory modality or an unusual perception in the same sensory modality.

If that doesnt work then we will need to agree to disagree.

* - Pain to Color Synesthesia
* - Colored Pain

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: underwerks

Pain to Color Synesthesia: Pain to color synesthesia is a form of synesthesia where pain is perceived as a particular color. Synesthesia is a relatively common perceptual anomaly where a stimulus of one of the senses (e.g. hearing) results in an experience or sensation in another sensory modality or an unusual perception in the same sensory modality.

If that doesnt work then we will need to agree to disagree.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I've studied the pharmacology and neurobiology of almost every substance under the sun, including some that only a few rogue chemists know about.

Certain chemicals do dull the pain response, some more than others. I do agree that drugs can affect the pain response. What I don't agree with is that it is any normal part of synaesthesia under the influence any substance, or naturally.

Your quote describes pain being seen as a color, which is understandable, while a color being felt as pain is a different thing, neurologically speaking.

I can see how it's easy to mix things up. No worries. It's a lot of reading to understand the pharmacokinetics and pharmacology of different substances, and if you aren't genuinely interested in it it can be tedious to learn.

Oregon has been doing some dumb things. But I very much approve of this bill.

a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

It seems to go hand-in-hand with people generally not wanting to deal with mental illness either, which I believe is one of the reasons why people turn to drugs or alcohol. I suspect many drug users will come forward now to seek help.

time.com...

How Many People Have a Dual Diagnosis Disorder According to the Journal of American Medical Association (JAMA), 50% of the people who have a severe mental condition also have a substance abuse problem. The JAMA also found that 37% of alcoholics have a mental illness, as do 53 % of drug addicts. These high rates make the relationship between mental health and drug abuse a strong one. Many studies have been performed to discover the reason for such a relationship.

drugabuse.com...

a reply to: underwerks

It's nice to see some politicians who actually understand the failure that is the war on drugs and are helping to change things for the better.

I.E., jails are full and they don't feel like spending money to build more. Or provide treatment for addicts for that matter.

Now they just fine people and let them go to repeat offend, which addicts excel at.

Its a win win for the state, switching from cost of trial and incarceration to income revenue from all the fines.

a reply to: intrptr

I don't think that will work either because most addicted people would not be in a position to pay the fine, then what? Jail anyways?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: intrptr

I don't think that will work either because most addicted people would not be in a position to pay the fine, then what? Jail anyways?

Eventually, depending. I knew a homeless guy, built up ten thousand dollars of fines behind Open Container and Failure to Appears, they finally dismissed them all with the stroke of a judges gavel.

Those aren't typical cases, lots of addicts have jobs, after all they are able to afford the dope, aren't they? The gubment wants their 'cut'.

All drug laws are based on contraband. Contraband is imported goods on which a tariff or duty are owed, but not paid. Drug laws, like most 'laws', are deceptions. Lawyer magic that includes un-professed presumptions. If you want to know the answer to WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY, look no further than lawyers.

a reply to: intrptr

Who knows how they get the money for drugs, or maybe they choose to barter for drugs?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: intrptr

Who knows how they get the money for drugs, or maybe they choose to barter for drugs?

or steal from people to support their habit.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: intrptr

Who knows how they get the money for drugs, or maybe they choose to barter for drugs?

or steal from people to support their habit.

I suspect the cost for drugs will come down dramatically. Just look at how much money your government could save? I wonder if they will funnel some of those savings to substance abuse/mental illness programs.

www.drugabuse.gov...

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: intrptr

Who knows how they get the money for drugs, or maybe they choose to barter for drugs?

They work for it. I think people would find most addicts are 'ordinary' citizens, gainfully employed and hiding a secret.