African history

a reply to: rexsblues

Except that this blog is completely full of s#. Prof Wilson NEVER recanted MtDNA Eve. And that's only one of multiple errors perpetuated by this trash fest. Seriously, the link to the preceding story is about how someone cured their HIV with black seed extract! It's a joke and the fact that people run with such obvious and blatant lies is very telling about the current state of education. My mind is blown by what people consider a legitimate citation because they're on an anti science kick and some blog touches their confirmation bias in its special place.

As for your prior google fest... please enlighten us with your vast knowledge of evolutionary theory as to how those articles support your contention. I noticed a link for the r event Graceopithecus finds and the lack of understanding people have of the fund and its context in relation to other paleoanthropological finds. With Graceopithecus, there is nothing more than a mandible that contains only 1 complete tooth. There is no basis for calling this a direct hominid ancestor. Ardipithecus Ramidus for example, contains a nearly complete cranium as well as extensive post cranial remains and nobody can say with any degree of veracity if they are a direct ancestor to our Genus so making such a claim based on a mandible with only a single complete tooth is intellectual dishonesty at its finest.

originally posted by: rexsblues
The whole 'out of Africa' theory is just that, and it's been recently disproved a half dozen times in the past decade. Other places of human origin predating African examples have been in Asia, the middle-east, and northern Europe.

That is true as far as ancient human's are concerned but is usually argued to simply mean they left Africa earlier but Asia has often been touted as another ORIGIN point, personally I think both are wrong and our history is far longer.

BUT

Our DNA mitochondrial and nucleus Y chromosome do track back to a single ancestor of both Sex's and that does seem in both cases to lead back to Africa, they may not be our only ancestors but there gene's survived right up to the present, other male line's died out and other female line's died out at least as far as direct descent is concerned.

originally posted by: rexsblues
a reply to: Spider879

didn't bother looking at the results in the link I suppose.

It's quite obvious you didn't.

Let me quote one of them for you:

Erik Trinkaus, a physical anthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis (who was not involved in the study), says most evolutionary biologists and anthropologists believe there were three major waves of migration from Africa to Europe: the first occurring about two million to 1.5 million years ago during the late Pliocene and early Pleistocene epochs; a second during the mid Pleistocene, roughly one million to 500,000 years ago; and ending with the spread of modern humans, 50,000 to 30,000 years in the past.
The new findings, published this week in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA, casts doubt on the second migration out of Africa. "[The researchers] are not denying that it happened," Trinkaus says, "just that it was less important than movement across Eurasia."

SciAm

Harte

a reply to: peter vlar

Also the simple fact that there is far more genetic variation in both nucleus and mitochondrial DNA among the people's of Africa than in the entire rest of the world combined with many competing strain's of modern human's still present within Africa whom are often genetically less alike than Northern European's are to aboriginal Australian's for example with those closest to us being east coast African population's specifically the Ethiopian's.
This mean's that Sub Saharan Africa actually has LIVING more sub race's of humanity than the entire rest of the world combined, of course they are all human.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: CoolBuzz

it also help if you don't refer to. Africans ancient and modern as a tribe.

Why? that is what they are.

Even today there society has barely evolved beyond it.

There are no Tribe of Africa, yes tribes ???..well duh!!, but what the O.P wrote is a kin to calling Africa one country, you as an Englishman should be more pristine in the use of language that "your" ancestors created, yes there are clans, tribes, ethny, nations and empires consisting of all the above, in the past and in the present in terms of the nation state, not so different, than the different ethny tribes or even clans in jolly ol United Kingdom, Irish, Scots, Welsh etc, these especially among the Irish and Scots can be broken down into clans, eg ,the Tartan colors and patterns..and political movements marred by violence in the very recent past..glass house??.. don't throw stones..

a reply to: LABTECH767

Our DNA mitochondrial and nucleus Y chromosome do track back to a single ancestor of both Sex's and that does seem in both cases to lead back to Africa

No, we did not rise from a single male or female ancestor, the notions of genetic adam and eves is grossley misunderstood. An anthropologist posted a great explanation on John Hawkes' blog, a few years ago.
300k years of interbreeding and migrations and massive die offs have made it seem that way.
It is just like when it is said that all native americans descend from a single population living in beringia 16kya, when there were clearly already people living in south america for 20k years at that point.
The newest genetics work is pointing to eurasian introgression into african archaics gives modern africans their great genetic diversity.

a reply to: punkinworks10

That is possible but I would love to see his competing research, personally as you know I have two mind's, one is my religious and the other is my scientific and they don't always agree with one another on this type of subject but I also happen to believe a lot of the fringe stuff that some of the more critical hate, I believe for example that the human race is actually far, far older OR that we are not the first and that would suggest some pretty strange matters as I do not believe in Time travel, if there were human's much like us it may be explained as parallel evolution but that would require parallel primate evolution as well UNLESS we are not from primates.
What I am referring to of course is all those out of place artifact's and find's that put human's or human like being's back not only million's but in some cases hundreds of million of years old such as the Wall in a mine which would be nearly 300.000.000 years old so therefore whom ever built it was not a descendant of north African monkey's driven out of the trees by slow desertification of north africa.
www.hecklerspray.com...
Read W.A. McCormick's comment, 3rd down as well because I do thoroughly believe this was real, if so then who built it, are all those vested interests in the pseudo sciences whom get really big bursary's really that powerful that they can just sit on the truth and keep us all in the dark.
If it was the only case claimed then fair enough.
So my gut feeling is really that we are not monkey's but I do have another explanation there called Genetic Propagation through viral transference, you know how like human's pig's have become and they are the oldest living domesticated animal, how many pathogen's and parasite's we share with them etc, virus may actually alter there host to make them more compatible by mutational viral reproduction incorporating and transferring genetic material between hosts, not all virus are lethal of course and there was research suggesting Cancer or some strain's of it were originally virus that somehow became inactive and incorporated into the host cell's then somehow this rogue genetic code was passed on through the generations of the host's descendant's, it would seem an incredible long shot but not when you factor in the number of virus and the time of exposure to shared eco system's with various animal's including primate's and the fact that these Cancer strain's show that it can AND has happened in the past.


All that aside including my fringe belief's, the fact is that you inherit unbroken the mitochondria from your maternal line, it mutates at a fairly (not actually) predictable rate which allow's some guess based calculation of the time's people's have been separated through there maternal ancestral line, like I say Guess work based on Estimated mutation interval's not actual date's therefore that IS made up by the mainstream when it is presented as fact not opinion.

The same Applies to your Y chromosome (if you are male) which is inherited father to son in an unbroken line, the rate of Y chromosome mutation's is also guess work based on estimate's (idea's) about the time interval in which those mutations may have occurred.

But they do not factor in Radiation caused mutation and other causes and are even more inaccurate as they estimate based on rate of natural mutation.

ohh my poor human feelings.

crap wrong thread and dbl post hahaha

Deleted not my opinion to make or answer,

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: CoolBuzz

Hi CoolBuzz, best way to approach the subject is to define what you mean, you can start by going back to the first modern humans, or start a little later, it is a Huge subject about a huge continent, roughly the size of the moon, it also help if you don't refer to. Africans ancient and modern as a tribe.

Hello Spider879 I now have read the replies after doing other things. I should have specified but my OP would have been too long and frankly so boring ats users could read it for a nap.

It's like this I consider the entire world, all people of the planet who have lived here as one big tribe subdivided in many tribes. It has a hierarchy and I currently am convinced the African tribes are the most strongest so they should be at the top. Now the white mans tribes might appear stronger with nukes and knowledge and all but when it comes to it well the Africans have more convincing ancestors.

In my own country we had primitive people which I've investigated, like hunebedden are their graves and quite some stuff has been found and reconstructed, but because I know enough about them I traced their steps back to Egypt and from there back to the middle of African countries and I believe before that the ancestors came from the seas, which would have a link to various evolution theories. Another tribe went to the right basically which became present day Asians, Aboriginals and also Northern and Southern Americans (not those who came from Europe).

To add I consider religions mostly as one tribe joining with others when needed so there are the major tribes.

So Dogon was mentioned that might be interesting and I've read a little about it in the past but put it on hold because it appeared too newagey. So some more cave paintings from other countries for comparison. In Indonesia people who lived there made this:



Although I'm unsure about before christ, after christ and carbon dating before present. Here are some paintings roughly 30.000 years ago from Europe:



and 30.000 years ago in South America:



Libyan Deserts paintings 7000 BP which I guess is 7000 bC?



And some African rock art, the Apollo stones roughtly 30.000 years old:



Sorry about the years I guess I have to reconsider bC, AD etc.

a reply to: CoolBuzz

What was it about the Hunebedden?? that struck you as being African derived through Egypt, I have never heard of these folks before, but their megalithic structures wouldn't be out of place for prehistoric European folks, but I am interested in your findings and what led you to that conclusion.

a reply to: Spider879

From what I remember from my grandfather tellin men syories about "home" (he's Dutch) they aren't a people, it's the local name for a specific type of chambered Neolithic/early Bronze Age Dolmen built there because the entire country is nearly flat, no mountains, no caves... you get the picture. Here's a little reading for you. I'm not terribly familiar with them myself so I know what I'm going to be researching on this rainy Saturday!

www.hunebedden.nl...

a reply to: peter vlar
Peter V.,

Is it not generally accepted that dolmans are an indo european phenomena, and the dating of most of them, including in east asia(korea), puts them squarely with the time periods of early indo european migrations. And the earliest dolmens are found in the Urals, giving credance to a Uralic origination of indo european.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: CoolBuzz

What was it about the Hunebedden?? that struck you as being African derived through Egypt, I have never heard of these folks before, but their megalithic structures wouldn't be out of place for prehistoric European folks, but I am interested in your findings and what led you to that conclusion.

Well it's real easy, back then there were no vehicles, everyone was on foot. First tribe started some place, all places in that tribe were divided then they ran out of space so they walked further and then different tribes emerged until the entire mainland like Africa, Europe, Asia was all taken for.

Now some theories say people walked from Asia to North America because at that time there was a landbridge, so land which is now sunk or it was ice whatever it was they are there. Others say it was all monkeys and and some point land was 1 big mass like 1 big continent so people were divided simply because of continental drift. Still others say it started in Africa, people walked to all corners of the continents and then people invented boats and went overseas to live there, however most likely DNA research is right and we all started on one continent and got seperated by drifting.

originally posted by: CoolBuzz

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Spider879

From what I remember from my grandfather tellin men syories about "home" (he's Dutch) they aren't a people, it's the local name for a specific type of chambered Neolithic/early Bronze Age Dolmen built there because the entire country is nearly flat, no mountains, no caves... you get the picture. Here's a little reading for you. I'm not terribly familiar with them myself so I know what I'm going to be researching on this rainy Saturday!

www.hunebedden.nl...

That's really mean to try to convince people aren't people. Why don't you get banned? Oh yeah because the moderators of ATS are evil beings.

edit look he typed: "they aren't a people" so first he said they are people then he said they aren't a people, so he's messing with people's minds but if you don't take action which I know you won't because you like it

I don't know what you are going on about, but I'm hoping it's simply a language or comprehension barrier and not that you're trolling me by calling for me to be banned. I simply meant from an archaeological perspective that what you are claiming is a group of people, the hunebedden, is the name that archaeologists use to refer to a specific type of chambered dolomen found only in the Netherlands.

I never said what you are claiming within the context that you have claimed. If you think I should be banned then by all means, use the alert button to let the moderators know what a terrible person I am. If you genuinely feel that the board staff are monsters then perhaps you should join a site like GLP and forsake ATS if it's so terrible. Speaking ill of posters and staff as opposed to the topic you created is a waste of everyone's time and takes the thread off course. Maybe instead of making it something personal with me you could have produced a citation showing that I was incorrect? Or maybe I am indeed correct and you're sad that I made youre OP appear underinformed? Either way, if I somehow misunderstood your post, my apologies.

OK people take a look into this and see what you find. First ALL peoples come from PANGEA, when PANGEA broke apart / separated the only section that was / is still connected completely to terra ferma is the continent we call Africa. The best evidence that has been found for the origin of our hominid line has been found, thus far, in that continent.
With that said, does it REALLY matter, were we as a species, originated, aren't there far more important and interesting things that actually bring us together as a species. just saying. a reply to: CoolBuzz

a reply to: JarridSinn

Pangea?

If we originated in Africa then devolution is proven. Im fairly certain ancient Africans could live without air conditioning. Global warming and all.. We're not adapting, we're on life support hoping no one trips over the plug.

So are Africans the originals and everyone else is devolved man? Or are the others just prototypes and Africans are evolved to survive global warming? Take your pick.

Convergent evolution is an entire new ballgame. Kinda proving the semantics of human origin of little value, essentially proving that the source material, the waveforms, were already programmed into the simulation before spawning.