4 Planes Hijacked 8 Pilots and total Squawk 7500 failure?

a reply to: Zaphod58

But they could cut open the panels with box cutters a bit quieter...

a reply to: intrptr

Yeah, ok.

I`m no hero but even I would have laughed at a terrorist pointing a box cutter at me, we aren`t talking about a crocodile Dundee knife it`s a box cutter for god sakes! damn son! you think you`re gonna kill me with a 1 inch blade before I turn your face into mush and stomp you`re face and testicules into the ground? well give it your best go son.

like i said I`m no hero but even I wouldn`t be intimidated by a box cutter, you couldn`t even kill a cat with a box cutter before it ripped you a new asshole with its claws.

if you`re that close to someone to even cut them with a box cutter then you are close enough for them to grab you by the throat with one hand and destroy your face with the other hand before they will ever do any serious damage to you with a 1 inch blade.

and lets not forget that those blades are made to be snapped off when they get dull, you can snap them off with your thumb and forefinger.

unless there`s a new definition of box cutter then this whole story about box cutters being used to hijack and take over a plane is just silly.

a reply to: Tardacus

And, again, the crew would have tried to stop you from fighting back. They were trained to get the aircraft on the ground, give the hijackers what they wanted in the short term, and let people on the ground deal with them. In previous hijackings they actively talked passengers out of trying something.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Tardacus

And, again, the crew would have tried to stop you from fighting back. They were trained to get the aircraft on the ground, give the hijackers what they wanted in the short term, and let people on the ground deal with them. In previous hijackings they actively talked passengers out of trying something.

yeah I know but if a hijacker tries to hijack a plane with cotton candy no sane person is going to let em do it.

I got this wad of cotton candy and I`ll stuff it down you`re throat and kill you if you don`t let me hijack the plane!

doh! ok! you can have the plane.

no one is asking them to put their life on the line for the crappy pay they get , but sustaining minor non life threatening injuries to protect your aircraft is not above and beyond the call of duty.
any real man would enjoy smashing the hell out some retard with a box cutter who is threatening to "kill" them.

it`s only a box cutter ! you can`t kill someone with a boxer who is fighting back.
like I said you couldn`t kill a cat with a box cutter because they will tear you all up before you even got close to killing them,and then they would run away. cats are soft and mushy, humans will # you up, a box cutter? lol

this whole box cutter story is retard fuel for the masses who have never seen a box cutter.

One thing needs to be put into perspective here.

Jarrah changed tactics at 09:59:52 and pitched the nose of the airplane up and down to disrupt the assault.

The cockpit voice recorder captured the sounds of crashing, screaming, and the shattering of glass and plates.

During passenger assault on the cockpit the hijacker was pulling positive and negative G's. At 2 G's negative a 170 pound passenger would be on the ceiling of the plane and have a weight of 340 pounds. The drink cart would also be on the ceiling and the hot water the Flight attendant boiled would be everywhere. That would be followed by a pullout of 4 G's positive where a 170 pound passenger would be on the floor and have a weight of 680 pounds. The drink carts and it's contents would be scattered about the cabin.

This happened multiple times.

a reply to: Tardacus

There was no fighting back before that day. You can be the hero type all you want, but on that day, the crew was only concerned with getting the plane on the ground. I've heard of crew members physically restraining people to keep them from fighting. They were concerned with keeping the passengers alive and would do whatever it took to achieve that goal.

It's a lot different now, but back then it was sit quietly in your seat, don't piss them off or draw attention to yourself, and let others handle it. You can say how you'd fight back all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the crew would have stopped you.

I thought the only pilot to squawk 7500 was
a Korean Airlines pilot near Alaska ? And they
had absolutely zero to do with the highjackings .

originally posted by: Tardacus

it`s only a box cutter ! you can`t kill someone with a boxer who is fighting back.

www.ksat.com...

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Tardacus

it`s only a box cutter ! you can`t kill someone with a boxer who is fighting back.

www.ksat.com...

I dont think this guy has ever been strapped into a pilots seat when someone is coming up behind them. In the cockpit unless the crew was already unstrapped and out of their seats they were deadmen.

I know this well its how we would trick some young airmen into "its not hazing its morale" situations.

originally posted by: Tardacus
I`m no hero but even I would have laughed at a terrorist pointing a box cutter at me, we aren`t talking about a crocodile Dundee knife it`s a box cutter for god sakes! damn son! you think you`re gonna kill me with a 1 inch blade before I turn your face into mush and stomp you`re face and testicules into the ground? well give it your best go son.

like i said I`m no hero but even I wouldn`t be intimidated by a box cutter, you couldn`t even kill a cat with a box cutter before it ripped you a new asshole with its claws.

if you`re that close to someone to even cut them with a box cutter then you are close enough for them to grab you by the throat with one hand and destroy your face with the other hand before they will ever do any serious damage to you with a 1 inch blade.

and lets not forget that those blades are made to be snapped off when they get dull, you can snap them off with your thumb and forefinger.

unless there`s a new definition of box cutter then this whole story about box cutters being used to hijack and take over a plane is just silly.

I don't think they used the box cutters in a pointing manner. They used the cutters to slash the throats of the flight attendants and pilots. I would think they didn't give any warning about what they were going to do so the intimidation by the cutters wasn't their intent.

The reports on tapes from the ATC audio stated that there was at least one throat slashed, they needed the terror as part of their tactics.

They did report having bombs on board which to me might have had a significant deterrent affect, especially at this time period. As it was said, pre 911 hijacks were about giving the hijackers what they demanded, mainly taking the plane to a destination and commence negotiations. They have audio of one of the hijackers stating they were headed back to the airport.

There were reports from ATC of keying of the mike by the some of the pilots. This would be suggestive of a struggle by the pilot and because they were unable to do anything but key the mike, which is on the yoke. If this was the case, their primary focus is to fight off the attackers so trying to switch the transponder to squawk 7500 was not possible.

In hindsight, I think many people would rather take a few gashes from a box cutter than suffer the ultimate fate of what happened, had they known.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Tardacus

There was no fighting back before that day. You can be the hero type all you want, but on that day, the crew was only concerned with getting the plane on the ground. I've heard of crew members physically restraining people to keep them from fighting. They were concerned with keeping the passengers alive and would do whatever it took to achieve that goal.

It's a lot different now, but back then it was sit quietly in your seat, don't piss them off or draw attention to yourself, and let others handle it. You can say how you'd fight back all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the crew would have stopped you.

The part of this that makes *no* sense to me is that we're talking about 4 different planes with 8 pilots/copilots and not a single one of them has the presence of mind to use the one thing developed for exactly this situation - squawk 7500?

Not one?

a reply to: Riffrafter
I agree, that is an awful lot of surprises for one day. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around that. I'm sure some of those pilots were air force men. Seems like that would almost be like not following a trained order or something. Then again, I wasn't there, but still, 8???

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Tardacus

There was no fighting back before that day. You can be the hero type all you want, but on that day, the crew was only concerned with getting the plane on the ground. I've heard of crew members physically restraining people to keep them from fighting. They were concerned with keeping the passengers alive and would do whatever it took to achieve that goal.

It's a lot different now, but back then it was sit quietly in your seat, don't piss them off or draw attention to yourself, and let others handle it. You can say how you'd fight back all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the crew would have stopped you.

The part of this that makes *no* sense to me is that we're talking about 4 different planes with 8 pilots/copilots and not a single one of them has the presence of mind to use the one thing developed for exactly this situation - squawk 7500?

Not one?

I don't think it has anything to do with using the 7500 squawk. The intent of this procedure is to alert ATC in a covert manner or when they can't talk on the frequency. If they needed to alert AND could have done it, it would have gotten done.

The need was there so COULD they have done it is the question. From accounts of the ATC tapes, struggling went on during the take over so it would suggest this was either not possible or they were occupied with the struggle.

Take it one step further, the 7500 code wouldn't be needed in this scenario because of the dire situation, they would just need state it on the frequency. They didn't so it's probable they were attacked in a manner that they couldn't talk.

There are other "procedures" that could have been used when 7500 code is not used that are subtle, that would alert ATC to possible hijack but these weren't done either.

Focusing on the 7500 code is beyond need, the question should be why they didn't get the chance to just state it over the frequency.

a reply to: Riffrafter

It takes 4-5 seconds to switch to 7500 and ident. That's a long time when something like this is happening.

a reply to: onehuman

The times are different now.
What you say you would do isn't what you would have done back then.

Plus you big strong macho types would have paused when they put the blade to your wife's neck.

If you think for a few minutes, what would 7500 accomplished?

Too often the conspiracy crowd uses today's thinking on yesterday's situation.
Would Custer still attack without knowing the Indians numbers?
Would JFK still ride in an open limo?

a reply to: Tardacus

I could easily kill you with box cutters if your unarmed. Many places on the human body only require one slice. At that time I'm sure everyone on board thought it was safer to wait. This worked in the past and no one was injured.

However if I'm not mistaken didn't they fight back on the one plane and it crashed??

a reply to: Zaphod58

Some of the flight attendants carried key to door - so called "Boeing Key"

Hijackers took several cross country flights to check out situation - such things as how many people on flight,
how many in First class, what flight attendants would have the keys to cockpit

The first people attacked were the flight attendants in first class cabin, both to get them out of way, obtain
key to cockpit and intimidate the passengers.....

a reply to: Lucidparadox

Now that you mention it.. how did a few guys on each plane overthrow 100+ people armed with box cutters and get into the cabin?

They were outnumbered.. You can use any type of luggage as a shield and just storm them woth numbers.

I really wish I could know how that all went

The more I think about it.. the more I'm thinking.. no way

Wasn't 5 hijackers vs 100 , was 5 hijackers vs occupants of first class cabin, aka about a dozen people

Also only have limited means of access - in 767 are 2 aisle, 757 - 1 . Now how many people can you fit in aircraft aisle
only 2 feet wide?

Think Thermoplyae (480 BC) were couple hundred Greeks held up 200,000 Persians in narrow pass for 3 days

I`m no hero but even I would have laughed at a terrorist pointing a box cutter at me, we aren`t talking about a crocodile Dundee knife it`s a box cutter for god sakes! damn son! you think you`re gonna kill me with a 1 inch blade before I turn your face into mush and stomp you`re face and testicules into the ground? well give it your best go son.

a reply to: Tardacus

"Box cutter" was name given by media to knives used by hijackers Most would by classified as utility or tactical knives

Used a variety of models, Swiss Army knives, Leatherman tools, Stanley utility knives

List by FBI showing purchases of knives prior to 9 11

www.historycommons.org...