Hard work does not pay off.

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Hard work does not pay off. It does, just not for the people that actually do it.

Hey, keep slacking off and doing a half-assed job then and see where that gets you!

It may be different were you live, but where I am slacking off and/or doing a half assed job provides you with a free and house benefits funded by people like me who work bloody hard. Shout in streets that you want sharia law, and to murder police and soldiers, and your massive extended family will get the same.

Ahhh, so you feel sorry for yourself. We have the same welfare state here too. However, I decided I wanted more than to be on the dole.

So I worked two jobs for several years, saved enough for a secondary education, and now make a very comfortable living, much better than those on the dole do. If I had NOT worked my ass off, I wouldn't have the life I do.

But hey, keep feeling sorry for yourself for having to pay for others. I realize that's simply how it is and decided I want more. I still live much better than those on welfare and feel all my hard work though those years has paid off.

a reply to: opethPA

We've talked in another thread and I simply tire of you.

I know a lot of people in tech, and have considered going into it myself.

I know that being in the IT industry does not define a person.

I realize there's amazing, good, honest, hard working people in all professions. But it's true that turning a wrench is less of a needed skill-set, and being able to work with computers, networks, electronics is becoming more needed.

I'm talking about my my own experience, not yours... Your perception of things hasn't been helpful thus far. Hopefully it can be, hopefully we can connect on some point and get somewhere...

I'm not smart enough to get into tech, or so it would seem. I've tried for nearly a decade and failed at all fronts.

Networking just goes straight over my head. The basic studying/questions for the lowest certification for networking goes into my mind about like Einstein level math goes into most of our heads. Ip addresses, routing, understanding ipv4 and ipv6 and such.... I don't know.

Programming - I'm well-versed at the extremely simple stuff ( like many kids are these days... ) but banging my head against tougher concepts like inheritance, polymorphism, etc - I just get lost. Other languages have advanced things themselves as well, so it's not like I can simply step away from one type of language and get into another. I've been at programming for over 10 years. Never formal education, but if self-learning completely fails... Does getting educated at it fail as well?

Hardware - I actually feel I could build computer systems for a living,it's something I really enjoy doing! I could even go to the sky with this idea - I feel like eventually I could compete with some giant like Dell because they always include shi*ty parts in computers, or their alienware line just has insane mark-ups... but once again, the technical mojo flies right over my head. I know what parts are compatible with other parts - I cannot explain as if I were a dictionary and conceive why the front-side-bus is important, or what memory-clock speeds have to do with anything.

Now something could be said about my level of confidence in myself when it comes to tech...- But I feel a life full of failing has gotten me to this point, not a life full of never trying. I've actually been told by a ton of people that I'm a "genius" when it comes to computers, but the definition of a genius, to the average user... Is extremely basic things like being able to access registry, or being able to "install" new memory sticks, or reformat a hard-drive. Maybe I could get 8 dollars an hour at geek-squad, but I feel like the things I am able to do are not impressive at all to people that are truly "Techies"

a reply to: nightbringr

Now there's one thing I'm confused about.

More and more people seem to have degrees, yet work for minimum wage - This actually describes more people I know with Associates/Bachelors degree than not. ( And no, they don't have a major in history or art or whatever cliche degree is joked about when it comes to not getting paid )

What's to say a degree will help me at all?

For the record, I literally filled out my FAFSA last night, and would get a decent amount of help towards classes. I am considering going to college this fall, I just need to think it through.. And make sure it's darn well worth it, as well.

I don't feel sorry for myself. My service has given me a comfortable life and I accept the situation as it is. I just pointed out that hard work on your part will be of benefit to those who don't work, by choice or otherwise.
a reply to: nightbringr

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
I don't feel sorry for myself. My service has given me a comfortable life and I accept the situation as it is. I just pointed out that hard work on your part will be of benefit to those who don't work, by choice or otherwise.
a reply to: nightbringr

I'm not a fan of the welfare state either, but it's there and there is nothing I can do about it. Therefore I focus on myself and making myself and my family happy. If it also benefits others, so be it.

My point still stands. Hard work had gotten me a lot more in life than sitting on my ass ever would have, and I'm grateful for it.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: nightbringr

Now there's one thing I'm confused about.

More and more people seem to have degrees, yet work for minimum wage - This actually describes more people I know with Associates/Bachelors degree than not. ( And no, they don't have a major in history or art or whatever cliche degree is joked about when it comes to not getting paid )

What's to say a degree will help me at all?

For the record, I literally filled out my FAFSA last night, and would get a decent amount of help towards classes. I am considering going to college this fall, I just need to think it through.. And make sure it's darn well worth it, as well.

This is the attitude that will ensure you fail in life. You are basically saying, 'I could work hard, get a degree, but I might still fail', therefore you never try in the first place.

Do you not at least agree if you DO have a degree, you have better chances? If you don't think so, someone needs to contact all the doctors, lawyers, engineers and others who have bettered their lives getting a degree and tell them that no, their life is NOT any better for educating themselves.

Ps. And congrats on filling out your FAFSA! You are on the path to bettering yourself! Yes, you may fail in the end, but at least you wont regret never trying.

a reply to: deadlyhope

did you read my post dude?

of course it will take effort but it is a legit option.
will not cost a ton
you can make money

Best advice I can offer you is to try and become a Mason to network.
They'll help you find a decent wage in the future with a little hard work.


Or join the military, decent money all round, a few extra benefits and you won't even need to pick up a Gun.
They accept tech savvy people as well. It's not all warfare.


I tried to join (armed forces) when I was struggling for money (still am in a way, and I always worked hard before I couldn't work) and it would have been a guaranteed job for life if I didn't have schizophrenia. That made me ineligible.

Any other line of work is beyond me at the moment...
I can't be around people I don't trust (I get very paranoid, very easily).
I also have a bit of a temper, so that rules out interactions with the general public, who can be very rude.

I'm not tech savvy so IT is beyond my capabilities, which is a shame because that can be an isolated job.
& I kind of need to be left alone.

Sorry to give you my life story. lol.





Hard work rarely pays off...
There is some real lazy, or just greedy people,in good positions in life who have never done a hard days work in their lives.

But you can make it pay off... eventually. If you find the right path.


Have a look at your country's military websites and have a look at the thousands of jobs available.
You're almost guaranteed to find something that suits you, that will be worth it.

Good luck, deadlyhope.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Thanks Hazard, I will look into that.

a reply to: TinySickTears

I went back and read your post, I will look more into that type of work.

a reply to: VengefulGhost

If you're from the USA or another first world country - Why wouldn't you create good jobs in your home?

Generally hiring labor out to those other countries is a way to save money, and not be hit by law-suits for treating your employees badly.

Unless you're pretending to be some extremely altruistic person that creates extremely preferable jobs in third world nations...

a reply to: deadlyhope


There's plenty of money available for retraining in the form of grants, low intrest loans, apprentisheps, scholarships, etc

I'm sure you've already explored that....

www.monster.com...

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: opethPA

We've talked in another thread and I simply tire of you.

I know a lot of people in tech, and have considered going into it myself.

I know that being in the IT industry does not define a person.

I realize there's amazing, good, honest, hard working people in all professions. But it's true that turning a wrench is less of a needed skill-set, and being able to work with computers, networks, electronics is becoming more needed.

I'm talking about my my own experience, not yours... Your perception of things hasn't been helpful thus far. Hopefully it can be, hopefully we can connect on some point and get somewhere...

I'm not smart enough to get into tech, or so it would seem. I've tried for nearly a decade and failed at all fronts.

Networking just goes straight over my head. The basic studying/questions for the lowest certification for networking goes into my mind about like Einstein level math goes into most of our heads. Ip addresses, routing, understanding ipv4 and ipv6 and such.... I don't know.

Programming - I'm well-versed at the extremely simple stuff ( like many kids are these days... ) but banging my head against tougher concepts like inheritance, polymorphism, etc - I just get lost. Other languages have advanced things themselves as well, so it's not like I can simply step away from one type of language and get into another. I've been at programming for over 10 years. Never formal education, but if self-learning completely fails... Does getting educated at it fail as well?

Hardware - I actually feel I could build computer systems for a living,it's something I really enjoy doing! I could even go to the sky with this idea - I feel like eventually I could compete with some giant like Dell because they always include shi*ty parts in computers, or their alienware line just has insane mark-ups... but once again, the technical mojo flies right over my head. I know what parts are compatible with other parts - I cannot explain as if I were a dictionary and conceive why the front-side-bus is important, or what memory-clock speeds have to do with anything.

Now something could be said about my level of confidence in myself when it comes to tech...- But I feel a life full of failing has gotten me to this point, not a life full of never trying. I've actually been told by a ton of people that I'm a "genius" when it comes to computers, but the definition of a genius, to the average user... Is extremely basic things like being able to access registry, or being able to "install" new memory sticks, or reformat a hard-drive. Maybe I could get 8 dollars an hour at geek-squad, but I feel like the things I am able to do are not impressive at all to people that are truly "Techies"

Sorry you grow tired of me but I dont buy into the idea that manual labor is more noble or "honest" then any other profession. To me I value anyone , in any industry that puts out effort and works to get to the top of there chosen industry.

I just returned from a week long conference for one of the largest tech companies in the world. I was surrounded by 30000 - 40000 people that are all at various levels of achieving success in the IT world from entry level to the pinnacle of their chosen industry and not a single one of them would state that they "arent smart enough" to do anything. Just reading the way you write your posts shows their is a good level of intelligence there so it seems to be you are lacking confidence.

To that end , it doesnt matter if other techies , wrench-turners or any other type of worker finds what you do impressive..You need to get to the point where you , in whatever field you decide upon, that things like people finding your capabilities impressive doesnt matter because you already know that what you do is impressive.

Finally I go back again to the lie that is "work smarter , not harder".
Being successful is a combination of hard work, ability , networking , confidence and timing.
Removing any one of those variables puts you at a disadvantage when you come up against someone that believes in all of them.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I live in a town of 120, it only exists because of tourism. I've looked into running my own cabins or what not, but it's hundreds of thousands for even a small operation.)

Are you physically fit, do you own an axe, do you have a pick up truck, if yes load the back of the truck with fire wood and sell it to the visitors at a decent price, great exercise, good cash it's a win win.

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
I don't feel sorry for myself. My service has given me a comfortable life and I accept the situation as it is. I just pointed out that hard work on your part will be of benefit to those who don't work, by choice or otherwise.
a reply to: nightbringr

I'm not a fan of the welfare state either, but it's there and there is nothing I can do about it. Therefore I focus on myself and making myself and my family happy. If it also benefits others, so be it.

My point still stands. Hard work had gotten me a lot more in life than sitting on my ass ever would have, and I'm grateful for it.

I don't disagree with that.

a reply to: thesaneone

I've actually thought about doing that. Would have to buy permits of course, but that's not extremely expensive. I'd likely use my grandfather's log splitter to start out, followed by getting my own

I don't own a truck.. I could likely gain access to one fairly easily, though.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: scraedtosleep

It seems like the most jobs are opening up in that specific field.. Technology.

It's not as if every single person has their technological calling.. . Yet even mechanics are being required more and more to interact with newer vehicles, sometimes having many, many computers running things - the future doesn't seem to want wrench turners and honest hard workers, it seems to need techies.

It's not a future I like. I'm willing to work sixty, seventy hours a week.
I'm willing to work in unfavorable conditions..

Yet what I describe is less and less what is avaliable. Average Joe can't just become a cow farmer these days and make a living well enough.

I work in technology as a software engineer. Had to leave Scotland due to politics. The Scottish Executive actually told one of my employers "not to promote anyone any further and to have a fresh talent initiative instead". Everyone left and the company imploded. Did a PhD and had my thesis dragged out for four years to stop me leaving the country after a German company asked if I was going to present at a conference. It was getting to the point where international graduates were paying companies £1000/month to get an internship. They were that determined to prevent brain-drain and bring in foreign talent.

Other hazards; if your employer does business with companies like Microsoft or Sony, their product managers will make demands like "they want the brightest/most qualified/whoever knows the most" to work on that persons particular itch. That can make it impossible to get the experience you need to go where you want to go. Dangers of accepting permanent positions is that they want someone with skills A,B,C,D. You may want to do skills C and D, but they try and move you onto skills A and B which you don't want to do unless you get to do C and D.

So it's better to be a contractor or be self-employed and focus on the skills you want to use. Technology changes every year; Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows 7/8/9/10, Linux, C, C++, C#, Python, Powershell, Perl, HTML, HTML5, Java etc... Applications are getting more and more complex as they start to include more and more API's, virtual machines and scripting languages.

You have to change jobs regularly to remain current. That can involve moving across the country, though the odds are you will move to London due to the numbers of different companies down there.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

This is very true. However, I have run into problems where people look for managers and hire people who have good management skills BUT have no understanding of the tasks of the people they're supervising. You have to have both skill sets or you're just in the way.

Hard work does pay off, the test is in how bad you want it, how much you're prepared to suffer for it and how long you're prepared to stick something out to get the payoff.

Too many people are actually scared of success, it seems like such a strange thing to say but it's absolutely true and they will deliberately sabotage themselves when they're on the brink of achieving it because there's comfort and familiarity in failure.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I don't dissuade anyone from going to college. Hell, I did. However, I do tell people when they start "I am going to college. Be somebody" talk that college isn't a GUARANTEE of anything other than debt.