Trump: If GOP health care bill fails, repeal Obamacare now, replace later

originally posted by: amazing
You can't just repeal everything.

There's a reason that Obama got elected twice on the cornerstone of Healthcare/Coverage reform.

Most American's wanted it and needed it.

We may not like it how it is now, but people were dying and going banktrupt before. This is about people that need coverage and healthcare. Period. Is everyone covered that needs to be, without ending up homeless and broke?

People are going broke now, too- and choosing not to accept health Care options they should accept due to cost.
It's just a different group, now. Before it was pretty must just poor people losing their shirt, now they're they are the only ones who can afford to keep it.

a reply to: lordcomac

Seems like the for profit system and affordable care cannot work. The system needs a restart.

There is a reason Americans pay overall 2X as much on average as the next countries system.

This is purely about money and the politicians do not want to loose the $$$ for re-election and the big money jobs on boards after they are done "serving".

Or alternatively, just let Obamad doesn't care fail.

It might take six more months, but who could blame
them. It's was designed to fail!

a reply to: seasonal

Or maybe people don't understand what health insurance is.

It isn't something that pays for your care when you get sick. It is a bet you make that you will never need it. Imagine expensive car or house insurance would be if we expected them to pay for every little thing that ever went wrong with our cars or houses instead of just covering us in the event that we had a crash or our house burned down or was hit by a tornado.

If you expected your car insurance to cover 60 to 90% of the cost of every oil change or every set of new tires or brakes, it would be just as expensive as health insurance is and because they didn't have to sell oil changes directly to you or those new (or used) tires, the mechanic could price them into the pockets of your insurance pool which would be much, much deeper than yours. Pretty soon, no one could just go and purchase an oil change or tires like we all do now.

That's precisely what has happened to health care.

If you want to example of what happens to a health procedure when insurance isn't involved, look at Lasik. Insurance doesn't cover it, and the costs have fallen dramatically over the years as more doctors have started doing it and there are more places for consumers to shop around.

a reply to: ketsuko

True, but it must it is telling that the medical community has pillaged the insurance companies with little to no interference in ways of regs to keep prices in a level of that in other countries.

It is of course the lobbying. Everyone is making money, and all is good.

And it would seem that with $2,500 deductibles, insurance does NOT cover every little thing like you stated. But the cost is still way out of line with other countries.

I WONDER...

How all those folks in FREEDOMLAND (Deep Red States) will FEEL once they REALIZE they can't get coverage for their DISPROPORTIONATE #'s of Type 2 diabetes

a reply to: DanteGaland

And this is why no one votes for leftist politicians out here. People with attitudes like yours.

But hey, stay hateful my friend.

a reply to: DanteGaland

Why do you say that?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: ketsuko

True, but it must it is telling that the medical community has pillaged the insurance companies with little to no interference in ways of regs to keep prices in a level of that in other countries.

It is of course the lobbying. Everyone is making money, and all is good.

And it would seem that with $2,500 deductibles, insurance does NOT cover every little thing like you stated. But the cost is still way out of line with other countries.

No, that's not true. Our insurance does cover part of things. It's the crap Obamacare policies that don't cover. We still are on the hook until we meet the deductible.

So, basically, we pay the co-pay and then we pay a percentage of the final negotiated cost after that. It's a pain in the @ss because you receive a sky high bill that always says you do not owe this amount, and then you might receive a couple more until you finally start to get the bills you are supposed to pay. They are lower but a set percentage depending on what the insurance coverage is.

So you pay:

Co-pay and then you pay a percentage of the final bill after that depending on the negotiated cost between provider and insurance.

If you pay enough out of pocket that you cover the deductible in a calendar year, then insurance picks up 100% of cost after co-pay and 100% of cost for all drugs. But that's our policy. Others differ.

Part of the high cost comes in with all the paperwork that must be filed with all the insurance regs imposed by state and fed government that docs must comply with too. Part of it is the negotiating process, and part of the price is what must be shifted to cover for those who do not pay or for providers who undercut market like Medicaid and Medicare.

a reply to: ketsuko

The mechanics behind the payments depends on the insurance plan you have.

The insurance co may reduce the bill. But you are responsible to pay it until the deductible is met. Then an 80/20 split until a magic # is reached. Can't remember if co-pays and pharma is included in deductibles.

It depends on the plan.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What's ironic is that Trump has nothing to do with the writing of this bill yet if it is successful he will get all the credit from his supporters, if it fails then they will pass the blame off to those who wrote it.

Exactly - Isnt that the same as Obamacare ?
Only IT IS failing the people
The Dems are the only thing keeping it alive with lies and vile remarks against anyone that speaks out against it
If somnething isnt done , Obamacare will fail , and the Democratic line will become true- 20 million US citizens will be out of healthcare
Thus they will blame the Republicans for not doing anything
What a bunch , huh ?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: lordcomac

Seems like the for profit system and affordable care cannot work. The system needs a restart.

There is a reason Americans pay overall 2X as much on average as the next countries system.

This is purely about money and the politicians do not want to loose the $$$ for re-election and the big money jobs on boards after they are done "serving".

Precicely. A ground-up restart.
Starting with... repeal the aca, then BAN all health insurance.

Gambling is illegal in most states anyway- shouldn't insurance fall under that?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: seasonal

Or maybe people don't understand what health insurance is.

It isn't something that pays for your care when you get sick. It is a bet you make that you will never need it. Imagine expensive car or house insurance would be if we expected them to pay for every little thing that ever went wrong with our cars or houses instead of just covering us in the event that we had a crash or our house burned down or was hit by a tornado.

If you expected your car insurance to cover 60 to 90% of the cost of every oil change or every set of new tires or brakes, it would be just as expensive as health insurance is and because they didn't have to sell oil changes directly to you or those new (or used) tires, the mechanic could price them into the pockets of your insurance pool which would be much, much deeper than yours. Pretty soon, no one could just go and purchase an oil change or tires like we all do now.

That's precisely what has happened to health care.

If you want to example of what happens to a health procedure when insurance isn't involved, look at Lasik. Insurance doesn't cover it, and the costs have fallen dramatically over the years as more doctors have started doing it and there are more places for consumers to shop around.

Thank you!
So far, you're the only other person I've seen in any of these threads refer to insurance as a gamble.
Making a bet that the cost of the insurance is going to be less than the cost of the healthcare without insurance.

Funny thing is, the house always wins- so it's generally a bad gamble.

Unfortunately, when too many people are duped into a bad gamble like this, it reaches a tipping point. Once more than, say, 35% of people are buying insurance, the doctors and pill pushers and labs can start to jack the prices, figuring a good percentage will actually pay out while the others flounder. That causes a cascade, though- how many times do you as a consumer get taken through the ringer and pay $1800 for $200 worth of work before you, too, buy insurance?

Something like 85% of americans had health insurance before the ACA.
The problem was already well on its way to where it is now, the ACA just pushed it that last mile- now that everyone is expected to have insurance, all of the prices have been jacked at every level, and we're paying out of pocket to these crooks what it would have cost in the first place WHEN the insurance pays, and 10-50 times more when they don't- plus, paying the cost of the insurance in the first place.


Insurance is the problem, here. Get rid of it, and the health care industry pricing will HAVE to correct its pricing if it is going to survive.

PS-
good call on the LASIK.
I had it done a year or so back. 24 month intrest free financing gives me 24 payments of ~200 a month and I get the whole thing done for about a quarter of what it cost just a few short years back.

That's less than many suckers are paying for their car payments, and I can now wear a welding mask or safety glasses or goggles and see what I'm doing at the same time

originally posted by: amazing
You can't just repeal everything.

Why on earth not?

a reply to: lordcomac

If my health insurance was confined to things like catastrophic illness or sudden trauma, then the gamble wouldn't be such a bad deal.

It likely wouldn't cost much more than house or car insurance where you are looking at similar rates for similarly catastrophic events.

If we could buy a policy for ourselves at birth that was for catastrophic illness only and not every. single. thing. then premiums would be low, particularly if that policy followed us for life, like life insurance. Then perhaps you could add riders to it for chronic conditions you might get, but those would still be cheaper than trying to buy a full insurance policy after the fact because you've been paying in for most of your life.

For everything else, deal direct with your provider and pay out of pocket. Set up HSAs to deal with it.

originally posted by: mOjOm
I say make everyone in Government take the same healthcare that they are giving everyone else.

And I say make insurance il'fuggin'legal for four or eight years. That'll eliminate so much corruption that we might find a way towards 'fairness' in this country.

a reply to: Snarl

Sounds like a reasonable idea to me. They're just the middle men after all. They don't provide any care for the person nor are they wanting service from the care provider.

They just sit in the middle of those two things and make money from it.

originally posted by: riiver

originally posted by: amazing
You can't just repeal everything.

Why on earth not?

Again. The reason Obama was elected on the cornerstone of Healthcare/Coverage reform was because everyone knows we need it. People were and are dying and going banktrupt. Why can't we fix that?

To put it another way. If you've worked, paid your taxes, paid health insurance your whole life, how can you be denied healthcare or go banktrupt trying to get it?