Trump calls for repealing Obamacare without replacing it

a reply to: carewemust

High. Risk. Pools. Have. Been. Tried. And. They. Were . A. Massive. Failure.

Might as well sign people up for a death panel.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

Insurance was rising every year at a much higher rate than prior to the ACA. It actually slowed the rate of premium hikes, but due to active sabotage you are seeing a directly engineered increase courtesy of your Republican Party.

Total absolute LIE.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

There is an arrogance that seems to be inherent in American people, and in government. (Or have you noticed? lol!)

We could learn so much from Canada if we didn't have the blustering egos to contend with. Health care for one, of course, but your method of the assimilation of refugees is second to none.

We seem to have reached an impasse in progress.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Why do you think they are unwilling to do that?

For starters, it's an unviable option in a country of 321-Million people and uncountable (but estimated to be at 11-Million) illegal immigrants who use the healthcare system. Compare that to the population of the UK, at 65-Million, or Canada at 36-Million, or France at 67-Million, or Germany at 81-Million. The closest of those to us is Germany, and it only comes in at 25% of our (the United States') population. With those numbers, it might be feasible to consider individual states in the U.S. creating their own socialized healthcare systems, but expecting our federal government to be able to administer and efficiently oversee and pay for such a vast healthcare system is not an experiment that I'm even remotely interested in our country conducting.

Another point to note is that our constitution limits the scope and size of our federal government, leaving control over nearly everything that is not listed in the constitution to the individual states; my argument there is that it's not even a power or responsibility that our federal government is supposed to have nor should have, and like I noted above, at worst, that power should exist at the state level.

Those are two very valid reasons as to why the U.S. is "unwilling" (I would argue, "constitutionally limited from doing") to create and administer a socialized, universal healthcare system.

originally posted by: Painterz
Well the American people did vote to get rid of it. So maybe they should just get rid of Medicade and Medicare. And see what happens.

Maybe next time quite so many people won't vote to get rid of it.

Gulp.

In that event the real money in the U.S. would be in investing in cemeteries. Buy low, sell high.
Charge a fortune for burial services! Sounds like a sweet little deal for those who could stomach the covert homicides.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

Insurance was rising every year at a much higher rate than prior to the ACA. It actually slowed the rate of premium hikes, but due to active sabotage you are seeing a directly engineered increase courtesy of your Republican Party.

Total absolute LIE.

The TRUTH is that BOTH parties were complicit in this monstrosity.

Obama didn't draft Obamacare it was simply passed during his time as Poster Boy for the Real Rulers.

When are people going to understand that the POTUS isn't in charge?

Obamacare was drafted towards the end of Bush's term in office and was brought into law under Obama. If i remember correctly, Obama tried to create a better one by suggesting various changes but this is the one that passed.

The whole system is rigged good cop vs bad cop. Whoever is in office is the devil to one side and angel to the other.

There is no two party system... it's one big party of us vs them. Only reason that it's even up for debate is because it's a big hot pile of stinking bull# that isn't as profitable as originally planned.

Nor are we just quietly standing around chewing our cud while they decide when to take us to the financial slaughterhouse.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Why do you think they are unwilling to do that?

With those numbers, it might be feasible to consider individual states in the U.S. creating their own socialized healthcare systems, but expecting our federal government to be able to administer and efficiently oversee and pay for such a vast healthcare system is not an experiment that I'm even remotely interested in our country conducting.

Efficiently oversee... heh... according to my husband they can't even efficiently oversee a trip to the bathroom much less health coverage.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

This country is like the Ferengi... profit is everything.

Lol! Love it!

And ironically we have put the head profiteer-in-chief in charge of the areas of our lives where turning a profit should be secondary to our well-being.

So true... granted who is a better candidate for taking control of our deficit and making America Great Again?

Btw... what he REALLY means is profitable again as in financially better. At least this is my opinion...

If this idea is accurate that means cutting unnecessary programs but unnecessary in terms of business not necessarily in terms of what WE THE PEOPLE think is unnecessary.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Oh yes, I agree it would be immensely difficult and costly. Our population is higher, which also implies it's all the more people paying into revenue bins. Even undocumented immigrants pay taxes.

It could be done, But, of course it's about money. And it's a matter of priorities.

That is what it boils down to. Money and priorities. The congress and administration is not there yet. We'll have to choose, and someday we will make the right choice. I'm sure of it. But for now, it's back to the old 'trickle down' which we all know was a massive failure. It's good in theory for the most part. Not so much for reality.

But that's where we are. The rich taking care of the rich, first and foremost.

a reply to: carewemust

Link

Not a lie. More insurance for less money.


Did premiums rise? Yep. Would they have risen without the ACA? Yep.

Don't believe me? Okay. Here's more...

Link

White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer claimed that “because of Obamacare, premiums on everybody have gone up … whether you’re in an employer-based system or not.” Employer premiums have been affected somewhat, but they’ve been growing at historically low rates for several years. Experts have estimated a 1 percent to 3 percent increase in employer premiums in 2011, due to insurance requirements instituted then under the Affordable Care Act, including preventive care without copays and coverage for young adults up to age 26 on their parents’ plans. There may have been some impact on premiums since, but the average growth rate for employer plans has been so low, it’s difficult to tell.

Still, the slow rate of growth was good news for premiums: The total average family plan cost increased by 43 percent from 2008 to 2016, but it went up more than double that rate — 97 percent — from 2000 to 2008.

If you project that 97 percent from 2008 forward, the ACA has generally saved money.

You can't look at ACA increases without a full analysis of 1) where rates would have been without it, 2) comparison to the higher quality of care and the focus on ACA insurance paying for preventative care, 3) what rates could have been without Republican sabotage

There absolutely are big problems with the ACA. No doubt about it.

Healthcare costs need to be reigned in as well. The ACA is a very complex interlocking system of polices that were intended as a starting point, and it was intended that, even with its flaws our government would be responsible enough to work in a bipartisan manner to benefit the American people, and fix what problems arose over time.

Instead it became a cudgel and political rallying cry, inflamed by those who did not have our best interests at heart, but rather their own pocketbooks.

Who benefits the most from repeal?

Hint: they are 1% of our population with 90% of the wealth...

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

This country is like the Ferengi... profit is everything.

Lol! Love it!

And ironically we have put the head profiteer-in-chief in charge of the areas of our lives where turning a profit should be secondary to our well-being.

So true... granted who is a better candidate for taking control of our deficit and making America Great Again?

Btw... what he REALLY means is profitable again as in financially better. At least this is my opinion...

If this idea is accurate that means cutting unnecessary programs but unnecessary in terms of business not necessarily in terms of what WE THE PEOPLE think is unnecessary.

Then you might want to WATCH what he does, rather than just LISTEN to what he says, yes? Therein lies the truth.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

This country is like the Ferengi... profit is everything.

Lol! Love it!

And ironically we have put the head profiteer-in-chief in charge of the areas of our lives where turning a profit should be secondary to our well-being.

So true... granted who is a better candidate for taking control of our deficit and making America Great Again?

Btw... what he REALLY means is profitable again as in financially better. At least this is my opinion...

If this idea is accurate that means cutting unnecessary programs but unnecessary in terms of business not necessarily in terms of what WE THE PEOPLE think is unnecessary.

Then you might want to WATCH what he does, rather than just LISTEN to what he says, yes? Therein lies the truth.

Absolutely

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Germany has a very different demographics than the US. Germany is more than 95% white. America is only 60% white. America also has a very large illegal population Germany does not have. It is far easier to provide universal healthcare in Germany than in the US. Don't forget. Germany has always been very very efficient. The same can't be said of America.

The issue at the core of this is that the ACA is fundamentally a conservative bill. Seriously.

I Believe Healthcare is a right - I asked an Expert why I'm Wrong

Craig Garthwaite [conservative]: Look, both sides are not being fair in this conversation. People who support single-payer health care in the United States don't consider the innovation effects at all, and people who believe in a free market system don't consider the equity of people not having access.

Sean Illing: This seems like a good place to pivot to Obamacare, which I think actually tried to get this right by striking a middle ground.

Craig Garthwaite: The ACA, in many ways, got this right by seeking that middle ground of subsidizing access for low-income people while still preserving the market incentives that exist.

Sean Illing: Most people acknowledge that Obamacare had its flaws, but do you think one of its problems was that it wasn’t sufficiently market-oriented?

a reply to: AboveBoard

Food and water are certainly human rights. No one can live without them. Low income people get free food and water.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Actually rand Paul did but Trump won't listen and neither will Trumps people, because they really don't want a solution, they just want to make it look like they are doing something

The government should never have gotten into Obamacare, it was a big mistake. Now you have something way too expensive that gives the medical industry a huge increase in revenue. What did people do when they had to pay for their own healthcare? We survived, we had it better than it is now, now people are being talked into things they do not really need. Our countries medical industry has become such a scam over the years. Twenty years ago we had it a lot better. Now the doctors and hospitals have to pay so much for technology that the price is going through the roof and the doctors are prescribing more and more tests that are not even really needed.

Trump calls for repealing Obamacare without replacing it

Wait, wouldn't that be "mean""? Wasn't that his chief concern a few weeks ago, that the House bill was too mean? But repealing it and doing nothing is a-okay. He needs to stick to tweeting.

a reply to: Painterz

The American people voted for repeal AND REPLACE . With a plan that was better, covered more people and would be cheaper, one so great, the best plan EVER... that people would say enough we have too much health care...
Oh and NOT TOUCH Medicare or Medicaid.

The plan they have on fantasy island...

a reply to: AboveBoard

The solution is going to have to start with managing the cost of health care.
And strong advocation for proactive well care. Stop illness before it begins instead of treating it afterward.
Manage the cost of drugs to treat illness.
Then insurance companies don't bear so much of a burden.
They're working the problem from the wrong direction.