The European Union has "Death Panels" now.

Remember when we were debating Obamacare, and conservatives were afraid of "Death Panels" deciding that certain people would die, because it was too expensive to treat them?

We were assured that such an outcome was Orwellian nonsense.

...and then this happened.

This British baby is dying from an incurable condition. The parents have raised over £1 Million to take the baby to the US for an experimental treatment. But they can't, because the hospital decided the baby should "die with dignity." And the EU courts, living up to their stereotype as the living embodiment of Satan himself, are agreeing with the hospital that the kid must die.

Again, this is privately-raised money, so they can't argue that it would be a drain on taxpayers.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

They are not being allowed to take their own baby out of the hospital?

EXCELLENT!

a reply to: IAMTAT

It's unclear to me as well, the fact that this couple had to fight the Supreme Court in the UK, and then a 2nd court in France is mind boggling to me.

Apparently the hospital their son is in right now plans to take him off life support on Friday, so maybe there isn't enough time to go with this other treatment if the hospital does this?
link to other article

Here in the US wouldn't they just have parents sign a waiver absolving the hospital of any consequences? The parents should be allowed to do as they see fit. I want to know more about this particular case...

On the one hand, I am all for natural selection- I'm getting pretty tired of people with weak ass genes procreating and creating children that can't survive in the very environment we evolved in. We need to get stronger as a population to survive- not weaker.

On the other hand, if the parents can afford to take the kid overseas so it can die horribly in some experiment, they should be allowed to do that, too.
If it were my kid, and I could afford that and they told me to pound sand, I'd be pretty angry.

Very angry, come to think of it.
What gives?

On the other other hand, I live in the US and I've had "health care" here- £1 Million might not go as far as they think.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Ah, I see, the end is truly nearing.

"Death Panels". How emotive. The case of Charlie Gard is really complex. Probably too much to expect breitbart.com to actually report!

For the facts for those not too lazy to investigate a bit further, see the FAQ and follow the links to the legal judgements.

GOSH faq

Then consider what you would do.

Private health INSURANCE in the USA already has death panels.

Ever HEARD of "pre-authorization"

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

We were assured that such an outcome was Orwellian nonsense.

And indeed it is Orwellian nonsense. You don't know what you're talking about, and nor (predictably) does Breitbart. Find a better news source and stop disturbing yourself with these bizarre fantasies.

The Charlie Gard case is complex, and unique in recent history. The parents are desperate to save their child. However, Charlie is damaged beyond repair by a horrendous but mercifully rare genetic disorder, and he is not going to survive by any method whatsoever.

Even the medics at the US clinic where his parents want to take him agree that they couldn't cure him, or even improve his prospects. Essentially, his poor parents are so distraught that they want to let their child be used as a guinea-pig before he dies, hoping for something quite literally miraculous.

The law in Britain is that medics are able to over-rule parents if they start taking decisions that will harm their children. This power is used very, very rarely, but you can see that there will be circumstances in which parents want to do exactly the wrong thing.

This power can be challenged in court. The parents challenged it in court and the court decided that the medics were right. The parents took the case all the way to the European Court of Human Rights, and the ECHR said sorry, but no dice.

Charlie Gard is going to die soon, whatever happens, and the medics have just said no to the parents dragging a terminally-ill child halfway round the world in order to undergo invasive treatment that will accomplish nothing. In other words, the medics are upholding the principle of doing no harm, but the parents want to take a gamble that they will definitely lose.

Basically, the outcome is "For Christ's sake, just let the poor little sod die in peace and dignity."

TL;DR - Death panels are a deranged fantasy of US conservatives, the Charlie Gard case is a horribly sad legal row that those conservatives do not understand.

Sources:
Great Ormond Street Hospital webpage "Charles Gard case: FAQs"
British Medical Association webpage "Parental responsibility: Basic principles"

Okay, this has been a high profile case here in the U.K and it is not a straight forward case by any stretch.

The baby is currently on a life support machine and medical experts argue, is in some pain. What the extent of the pain is, is not fully known of course.

The parents could remove their child from hospital at anytime, what they couldn't do was take the life support machine with them.

It is a sad case for sure because no parent wants to lose their child, but the courts have decided it is in the baby's best interests if the life support is switched off and let the baby die.

The case has gone through the full judicial system in the U.K and both sides of the argument have been heard on at least 4 occasions in the various courts, including the European Court of Human Rights. Each time the Judge or Judges have determined the same result; life support was to be switched off.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

# the Government.

What right does some piss ant buerocrat or judge have to deny the parents right to decide on treatment?

So what if the treatment wont work?
Its there money?

Whats the diffrence if he dies in a US hospital or UK hospital?

UK Government should keep the # out our lives.

I dont know if id call this a death pannle read up on what the poor kid has ... he is suffering
Should it be up to doctores and goverment or greif stricken parents should be the debate

Sending the kid overseas in critical condition on lifesupport is simply a bad idea tho ... and no hospital would do it unless on flight for life chopper ... i dont know of a flight for life that could cross that distance ... he literaly must bring the hospital with him

mitochondrial depletion syndrome

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

# the Government.

COOL!

Move to SOMALIA. There's hardly ANY functional government there!!!!

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Here is a link to more accurate coverage www.telegraph.co.uk...

The parents asked the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg to overturn the decision not to allow the US treatment by the UK High Court. Strasbourg is, currently, the final court of legal appeal for challenging UK legal rulings...

"Death Court" is a tad emotive, and I suggest a little insulting to the Nurses, Doctors, and Lawyers who have struggled with and for this young mans life since day one.

If you care about the case, please read the link.

That's not a death panel. As others have already pointed out, the Brietbart article is so fallaciously misleading that it deserves to be in LOL.

The baby in question is already brain dead. There is zero chance of the baby recovering. All that is happening is the suffering is being prolonged.

The parents have already had a large amount of world class medical treatment for free from the NHS, and they've run out of options, apart from this 'experimental treatment' in America that has been deemed to be of no medical value.


Except of course the usual suspects are prepared to make political capitol out of it by writing these sorts of awful fallacious articles on Brietbart.

But it's absolutely not a death panel.

originally posted by: DanteGaland

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

# the Government.

COOL!

Move to SOMALIA. There's hardly ANY functional government there!!!!

No need, Somalia is moving into our communities!

Glad to see you admit that Obamacare had death panels in it!

Refreshing!

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

# the Government.

What right does some piss ant buerocrat or judge have to deny the parents right to decide on treatment?

So what if the treatment wont work?
Its there money?

Whats the diffrence if he dies in a US hospital or UK hospital?

UK Government should keep the # out our lives.

The difference is the cost to the taxpayer of extending this poor babies suffering any longer.

The difference is while that kid is off with full life support to make a long and arduous trip, that the equipment and nurses are not available for a baby that might still have a chance at life.

The difference is as emotional and upsetting as it is for the parents, their kid has gone. And in the opinion of all of the doctors, nurses, and judges that have now reviewed the case, all they are doing is prolonging suffering. And the parents do not have the right to torture their baby.

a reply to: crazyewok

Sure, and the parents can.

They need to get a private life support machine to remove Charlie from hospital, organise transportation for Charlie and life support machine, a nurse to monitor the life support machine and take care of the Charlie, a doctor on standby for advice and to escort on the trip to the U.S and a specially organised flight.

As I said, it's very sad, but if there was anyway that Charlie could end up living a fulfilling life, I am certain the decision wouldn't have been the same.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

It amazes me where we find ourselves.

A while back most of us thought we knew it all, now the most of us know we are all useless eaters in their eyes, this ritualistic financial manipulative kabal they have operating is so deep.

I wasn't religious until recently.

Jesus Christ save us if you are real.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
Remember when we were debating Obamacare, and conservatives were afraid of "Death Panels" deciding that certain people would die, because it was too expensive to treat them?

We were assured that such an outcome was Orwellian nonsense.

...and then this happened.

This British baby is dying from an incurable condition. The parents have raised over £1 Million to take the baby to the US for an experimental treatment. But they can't, because the hospital decided the baby should "die with dignity." And the EU courts, living up to their stereotype as the living embodiment of Satan himself, are agreeing with the hospital that the kid must die.

Again, this is privately-raised money, so they can't argue that it would be a drain on taxpayers.

UH OH! Stuff happening in another country portrayed to effect policy in the USA...UH OH...

But wait pesky facts why do you always get the better of Americans! CURSES!

Wait WTF does this have to do with Obamacare...NOTHING...
WAIT again what does this have to do with USA FALLACIOUS DEATH PANELS...NOTHING CAUSE IT IS HAPPENING IN ENGLAND! D'oh! Try again