LaVoy Finicum shooting: FBI agent indicted for alleged false statements

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: 123143
Finicum's death was wrong all the way around. If you haven't seen the video, go to YouTube and watch it. As a citizen of the US, watch it.

Speaking of that were there really shots being fired when he went for his gun? That was not indicated at the time.

There were shots fired at the traffic stop before the roadblock ambush, and there was no 'going for a gun' at that point, just goading by the FBI at that point.

You know how the law reads. Once he got out of his ride, the shooting stooped, he goes for his gun after enough time had passed to establish a willingness by agents to stop hostility.

a reply to: Logarock

I am still not convinced that I would feel comfortable around the FBI under after they started shooting at me at a traffic stop where I didn't give them a valid reason to do so.
I would have run from that traffic stop just as Finicum did, once they started shooting, unprovoked.
Of course, I would have run into a roadblock, just like he did.
I don't support the idea that law enforcement should be allowed to shoot at you during traffic stops when you have presented no immediate threat to them.

I also do not agree with law enforcement setting up ambushes for a group of people that are traveling to another law enforcement officer (an elected one) that repersents competition to them. It seems like a mix of mafia and soldiers in Afghanistan.

It was a cold-blooded, premeditated murder planned and executed by the same type of team that planned and executed the Weaver murders. And just like in that case, this one guy will be the fall guy for the entire murderous plot. It's twisted and sick, just like a lot of the other high level cases that have been exposed. Calling this senseless killing a "good shoot" is like saying that wasn't it nice that Mussolini made the trains run on time. It takes that sort of authoritarian mindset to accept such barbarity as justified. It takes a very twisted brain to not see the reality of the situation. Again we saw the msm and high levels of authority having each others' backs. And society has to wait and see who this team will murder next. Then some poor slob will pay a few months of his life and his job and the government will sweep the rest under the rug, after they've removed anyone they consider a threat to their way of life.
Every last manjack of them should be at the least charged with conspiracy to commit murder and attempted murder. No matter who told them to do this deed, they were plotting to kill people who had harmed nobody.

a reply to: diggindirt

and yet, after everything you said, it is still a good shoot.

a reply to: Xcathdra
A "good shoot" only to a totally brainwashed authoritarian who believes that ambushing US citizens who have not harmed a single soul is good. "We were only following orders" was discredited decades ago. It takes a morally bankrupt personality to endorse such actions by law enforcement. You are no different than the scum saying "Kill the cops."

a reply to: Asktheanimals
Why do people make excuses and call this guy a hero? If you don't want to get shot follow instructions.

These guys fled capture and attempted to run a roadblock which put law enforcement lives in danger. You can't do that and then claim you were improperly treated.

If one of you had a relative at that roadblock that struck you would be singing a different tune.

a reply to: diggindirt

Fleeing a traffic stop puts lives in danger right? Even the people fleeing. If they step out of the car and surrender when pulled over like the law demands this isn't even a topic. For a cold blooded ore meditated murder to exist you have to assume these rednecks are stubborn enough to refuse to surrender and approach a manned roadblock at high speed.

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Asktheanimals
Why do people make excuses and call this guy a hero?

I'm not making any excuses for anyone... including the federal LEOs who knowingly and deliberately created this deadman's roadblock, putting everyone -- read that again: EVERYONE, including every officer assigned to man that deadman's roadblock -- in danger. And LaVoy Finicum chose to protect everyone except himself. He knew that he had a target on his back and everyone in the vehicle with him had a target on their back, and he took the hit to protect the others. That's a hero.

These guys fled capture and attempted to run...

Finicum fled an unprovoked lethal attack upon himself and everyone in the vehicle with him and attempted to run to the Sheriff and other officials with whom he was scheduled to meet when ambushed. The authorities knew this. If they had wanted a peaceful resolution, they could have had it. Instead, they created the end result they wanted.

...a roadblock which put law enforcement lives in danger.

That roadblock put everyone's lives in danger.

You can't do that and then claim you were improperly treated.

Damn right you can't! It was federal LEOs which created, perpetuated and escalated a dangerous situation for everyone involved.

If one of you had a relative at that roadblock that struck you would be singing a different tune.

No, I wouldn't... but you can bet I'd be singing that tune from the rooftops and in court as I sued the sadistic masterminds who knowingly and deliberately put my loved one in danger for their premeditated murder plot under color of law.

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: diggindirt

Fleeing a traffic stop puts lives in danger right? Even the people fleeing. If they step out of the car and surrender when pulled over like the law demands this isn't even a topic. For a cold blooded ore meditated murder to exist you have to assume these rednecks are stubborn enough to refuse to surrender and approach a manned roadblock at high speed.

What should you do when a cop pulls you over and then starts shooting at you and your car full of passengers when you have given them no excuse to do so?
Just sit there and hope that no one gets hit?
Or attempt to escape from someone that is trying to kill you?

a reply to: mzinga
What sort of twisted mind does it take to make such a statement? Anyone with just the slightest ability to think critically can understand that this was a planned, well-executed murder, no different from Ruby Ridge. The responsibility should rest with those at the top who orchestrated it and reach down to every one who was there hiding in the bushes and shooting. Levoy gave up his life in hopes that the people who were with him would live.
Now that the murderers have gotten away with it, they are even more dangerous. Civil society doesn't condone shooting people down on the side of the road like an animal. That is reserved for the authoritarians who believe that because someone gave them a badge, they were elevated to divine status.

a reply to: diggindirt
So you have watched the video of him being and Arrogsnt stubborn individual when the Oregon state police has him pulled over correct? Him telling them to shoot him because he is going to do as he pleases.

That isn't how things work, there are consequences when you don't follow instructions. No one was shooting. This premeditated thing is so silly it's funny. Get out of the car, follow instructions and you can talk to the sherif. Once you do what you want and out all lives in danger. I'm sorry but 99.9 percent of people would just surrender.

a reply to: mzinga
If "No one was shooting" why is the FBI agent being charged for lying about his shots at the truck? Obviously, you didn't read the article the OP linked. Obviously you didn't watch the videos associated with the incident so you have only the msm version of the story. I'm sorry for you. I hope none of your family members ever tick off a cop with the attitude this bunch had. Set up an ambush and fire at will.
When people begin shooting at me for no reason---you bet I'll try to get away as fast as I can. That's a natural, inborn human instinct, it's called the instinct to survive and what the cops depend on in order to justify shooting someone whose attitude they don't like. Nothing right or justified about it.
Why the lies to cover up the shots that were fired? What is the cover-up about? What was the cover-up of Ruby Ridge about? Shooting a young boy in the back, a boy that hadn't done anything to a single soul. They got by with it then, most of them, and they apparently are going to get by with it again. That makes it more dangerous for every single citizen out there. Having a badge doesn't make you judge, jury and executioner---no matter what your bosses tell you. It takes a really twisted mind to believe it is okay to shoot a man down like a rabid dog.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Xcathdra
A "good shoot" only to a totally brainwashed authoritarian who believes that ambushing US citizens who have not harmed a single soul is good. "We were only following orders" was discredited decades ago. It takes a morally bankrupt personality to endorse such actions by law enforcement. You are no different than the scum saying "Kill the cops."

no - It is a good shoot to the people who are educated on the law, SCOTUS rulings and how to review a law enforcement officers use of force.

Next time learn before trying to lecture and looking like a fool in the process.

a reply to: Xcathdra
Nope, I don't subscribe to the Authoritarian cult. Just like Bible Authoritarians, the Legal Authoratarians can twist the words on any page to meet their desires. Being able to do that doesn't make you moral. Premeditated, cold blooded killing is immoral.
Had this case been allowed to go to a jury of Levoy's peers, I believe morality would have won because your average citizen doesn't believe that law enforcement should act as judge, jury and executioner. I've never seen a police killing that you didn't fall in love with.

a reply to: diggindirt

Had Finnicum complied he would of had his day in court.

Finnicum chose his own fate.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Read the OP again, as in "shots being fired while he was in the truck".

That's fate as well, eh?

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Xcathdra

Read the OP again, as in "shots being fired while he was in the truck".

That's fate as well, eh?

Given totality of circumstances - yes.

Finnicum is the one who decided to be interviewed by the media, armed, and stating he wont be going to jail. Finnicum chose the direction the encounter went and failed to take advantage of surrendering peacefully.

a reply to: Xcathdra

So his social media appearance is what legitimized this execution? That's quite revealing, actually.

Why was R. Bundy shot and wounded then, for freedom and democracy?

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Nope but it plays a major factor into it. Also it was not social media.. He gave the media live interviews so stop trying to confuses his actions into something benign.


Why was R. Bundy shot? Gee, I wonder why?
Ammon Bundy, other protesters arrested in Oregon; LaVoy Finicum killed

Everyone obeyed orders to surrender except LaVoy Finicum and Ryan Bundy, Ammon Bundy's brother, the official told CNN.

Back to that whole totality of circumstances thing people dont seem to grasp.

It is convenient for police that civilians are not allowed to take the totality into account also.
As in when we take a video of a cop shooting a man in the back as he runs away from him, a multitude of videos of police officers beating people for 'resisting' when they have done nothing wrong in the first place or the multitude of cases where municipalities have to pay large amounts of taxpayer money in settlements for brutality cases because of either stupid or rhoid raging cops.
Cops walking up to your vehicle on a traffic stop with their hand on their gun.... try that as a civilian.
They fly up the highway at speeds doubling the limit (the limit for civilians, that is) with no lights or sirens, endangering lives. Why no lights or sirens? Maybe they have an extreme need for a doughnut? Or their shift is over and there is a special event at home that they need to attend? It all happens.
Just like cops driving drunk happens, with other cops looking on, and doing nothing about it... or worse, covering it up when their cop buddy wrecks while drunk.
Totality? Whatever.
It is just an excuse to kill and get away with it.