What use is gold in say an EMP strike?

originally posted by: Violater1

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: InceyWincey

I'd be interested to know how something that (can) make you paranoid, dull your wits and reaction time plus give you the munchies for food that doesn't exists or is rare - will be useful? Unless maybe for the benefits of pain relief which I've heard of but yet to meet anyone who actually is relieved from pain by the herb.

peace

IMHO, the only good thing that weed would be good for is rope and maybe clothes. That is if you like burlap for clothes.
Medicinally, it's useless. Cotton mouth comes to mind. But as a relief from reality, it is no different than alcohol.

I 100% agree.

It can make oils and fiber. Beyond that there is only hopeful guesses. I wish it was a cure-all, as do all those afflicted from some random ailment.

Anything else you do with it only slows the reflexes you need to survive.

ya can't eat gold

I've just had another thought which kinda makes all my previous considerations a bit moot, nuclear power stations.
As I said, I'm in Britain, so what happens to all our nuclear power stations with no generators to cool the fuel rods? Assuming the EMP came from solar activity and the plants had advance warning to stop the fission process, those rods still need to be kept cool, so what then?
The more I think about it the more I'm thinking gold or any other hoarded supplies are almost pointless if the nuclear power stations fail, certainly if fission is still ongoing when the EMP hits.

Any nuclear experts on ATS? Britain is pretty small so I'm drawn towards thinking we'd all be screwed anyway if a couple of melt downs occur.
That's a scary thought.

a reply to: InceyWincey

Cannot think like that (I do not know the answer for certain, but I imagine that most of the newer ones can handle the majority of disasters that could occur) If you do what will happen is you talk yourself out of prepping, something happens but it is not as bad as you thought and now you are screwed.

Preps can be used for many things not just the end of the world as we know it.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Oh absolutely, and I prepare generally in life for all possibilities, power cut is most likely reason I'll ever rely on my own resources. But, the EMP scenario in the OP is quite a thought if our nuclear power stations failed. You mention 'newer' ones, we don't have any newer ones in the UK, they are all getting beyond their shelf life, so I genuinely wonder if that solar event hit, will I eventually be chuckling at myself for even bothering to prepare as I die horribly from radiation sickness.
...I actually wouldn't die horribly from radiation sickness though because part of my preperations includes drugs to kill myself swiftly should I face such a horrible unavoidable death.

a reply to: InceyWincey

Gold was currency before paper and it stands to reason it will always be valued.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: InceyWincey

Gold was currency before paper and it stands to reason it will always be valued.

Agreed.
What value do you think it will have in the short to medium term after an EMP/solar strike?
I say zero, and zero for many years.

originally posted by: InceyWincey
What value do you think it will have in the short to medium term after an EMP/solar strike?
I say zero, and zero for many years.

What is so special about an EMP/solar strike that would cause this?

You seem to be begging the question.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: InceyWincey
What value do you think it will have in the short to medium term after an EMP/solar strike?
I say zero, and zero for many years.

What is so special about an EMP/solar strike that would cause this?

You seem to be begging the question.

No, I had a thought about such a specific hypothetical scenario, be it man made or solar, and decided to start my first thread.
You got some problem with that?

*How about add to the conversation and share your thoughts on the topic? Do you think gold will be useful to you in the short to medium term after such a disaster? I don't.

originally posted by: InceyWincey
No, I had a thought about such a specific hypothetical scenario, be it man made or solar, and decided to start my first thread.
You got some problem with that?

It isn't my problem, it's just that those things wouldn't necessarily end in your specific hypothetical scenario. If that doesn't happen then your conclusion is wrong.

*How about add to the conversation and share your thoughts on the topic? Do you think gold will be useful to you in the short to medium term after such a disaster? I don't.

It will be just as valuable as it is right now for the reason given the above.

a reply to: daskakik

What things wouldn't necessarily end in my hypothetical situation? Join the chat, don't just pop in to snipe at me about what specific topic I decided to invite others to a conversation.
If this topic is not your thing I'm not forcing you to enjoy the discussion here.

a reply to: InceyWincey

I thought it was obvious that I was referring to your proposed EMP/solar flare.

I'm not sure if there is anything that will affect the entire world at once and since people in another part of the world might still need gold, then it will still hold value.

a reply to: InceyWincey

Very little in the short term.

a reply to: daskakik

Oh, okay.

The purpose of placing your wealth into metals is to transfer a level of wealth from now to SEVERAL YEARS AFTER THE CATASTROPHE, WHEN WORLD MONETARY SYSTEM HAVE RE-STABILIZED. Metals are not for immediately after a catastrophe as they are worth nothing compared to ammunition, food, antibiotics, fuel. Level of wealth from now transferred into the DISTANT future.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: InceyWincey

Very little in the short term.

Same as the coins in our pockets right now. I'm not even sure gold would even take over as currency because under the conditions in the OP there would be plenty of coinage left to use, but a finite resource. Highest value coin in the UK is £2, then £1, 50p, blah. Notes would obviously still exist but coins would last and could easily return as tokens of exchange in transaction.
Lumps of gold have a battle competing with the millions of minted coins in circulation already.

a reply to: InceyWincey

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Past behavior indicates Gold has lasted, while state currencies have come and gone.

a reply to: InceyWincey

I think tribe mentality would take over and each tribe territory would have different currencies based on what they have on hand . Gold wouldn't really be that abundant or mass currency wouldn't be available until governments try to get established. I hope once we're done with the one's we have we do not repeat the mistakes of making them all powerful again.

My considered opinion on this thread is that I don't think OP is as interested in other people's opinions as he originally said he was. Some interesting points have been made, but right now the discussion is going round in circles.

There was some positive response to the counter-example of the Black Death, raised a page or two ago, so I'll explore that, in the hopes it moves the discussion on a bit.

The exact toll of the Black Death is unknown, but agreed to be a Europe-wide average not lower than 40 per cent fatality (out of the total population) and probably not above 50 per cent. This is still an astronomical mass dying. England got away lightly (estimated 15-20 per cent of population killed), mainly due to its natural isolation from the continent. On the other hand, Spain couldn't get rid of the disease, and it ran for four or five years and killed between 75 and 85 per cent of the population!

The Black Death makes the outcome of an EMP event, even a planet-wide one, look pretty trivial. There's no way our EMP disaster would kill as many people as the Black Death did.

And yet, within 100 years European civilisation had absorbed the consequences and was getting back to normal. There had been quite a few changes to society, especially in western Europe where a morbid and fatalistic mood appeared in art and literature (Boccaccio's Decameron or the paintings of Breugel) - and Europe was doubly unlucky because soon after that, or actually at the same time, the 'Little Ice Age' struck and didn't let up till the 1800s. Widespread crop failure led to famines and increased hypothermia mortality.

And again, civilisation withstood the blow. (Yes, it was pretty rough on everyone who wasn't safely tucked up in a castle).

And the other reason that an EMP event would probably (but not definitely) be less serious than the old one-two of the Black Death/Little Ice Age tag-team is that centralised government exists today in a way that it didn't then. There are civil contingency plans for this sort of emergency, mainly left lying idle after the Cold War ended, which are now shelved but could be dusted off and implemented PDQ if things really hit the skids.

These would include: The confiscation and rationing of foodstuffs, the confiscation and rationing of medical treatment, and organised (read: forced) labour for specific purposes (mainly agricultural and structural). Martial law, in other words, but with a scope and severity that is hard to imagine.

(And no, EMP would not burn out sparkplugs, so vehicles would still work in the aftermath, even though at a basic level)

So yeah. An EMP disaster wouldn't necessarily produce a 'Mad Max' scenario (if the Black Death didn't manage it, it's hard to imagine what would). Whether or not a 'martial law' phase would lead back toward some semblance of normality is hard to judge.

And this depends on whether or not government is sufficiently non-dependent on digital technology to survive the EMP itself. I have no idea whether that is the case. It could easily be that IT is now so embedded in governance that the whole thing would break down even quicker than conditions in the outside world.

But one thing is damn sure as mustard, if any form of organised government and military survived then anyone who went on a looting spree in the immediate aftermath of this EMP disaster would probably be shot in the street as an example to everyone else.

originally posted by: tkwasny
The purpose of placing your wealth into metals is to transfer a level of wealth from now to SEVERAL YEARS AFTER THE CATASTROPHE, WHEN WORLD MONETARY SYSTEM HAVE RE-STABILIZED. Metals are not for immediately after a catastrophe as they are worth nothing compared to ammunition, food, antibiotics, fuel. Level of wealth from now transferred into the DISTANT future.

Gold is also extremely heavy.

Do you want to be lugging around hundreds of pounds of metal in your backpack as you flee marauders, or have some cans of food that weighs a fraction of what the gold does?

Ill take the food, thanks.