Mandela Effect - John Denver Becoming John Dever - Transition Time?

a reply to: Pearj

I understand what you are postulating.

But these altered refs arise from the discussion. When the Mandela dies in the 80s effect started there was no refs to it stored outside memories. Now that's it's been a topic there are, but they were created after by those thinking otherwise.

Where is the physical book title Berenstain Bears? (not including altered as false proof)

Ginger or Mary Anne?

originally posted by: c2oden
Ginger or Mary Anne?

I suppose it is whether a person wants eye candy or coconut cream pie.

a reply to: Pearj

Far out !!

FFS, it's just a typo. It's Denver, as in the damn city he took the name from. It was Denver when I was little wearing out my dad's cassettes. It was Denver in '94 when my dad & I went to one of his concerts. It was still Denver when he crashed into Monterey Bay and hasn't changed. Again, Dever is a typo. It's not the first typo for any word or name, and will not be the last. Typos do not constitute a ME.

I think that information bleeding over isn't an unreasonable hypothesis... but that's all it is. If Denver changes to Dever (which may or may not happen) this thread would be proof that it transitioned unless it is deleted and never existed and i don't mean by a mod or the OP but as result of the ME.

It would be awesome to actually catch things before they change but even if it were seen not everyone would witness and believe only those affected.

a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw


Surely all this gradual transition bit is just a pile of steaming wombat's do's?

So we could be looking at a Google page and it slowly changes?

Come on, people. Get real

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw
I think that information bleeding over isn't an unreasonable hypothesis... but that's all it is. If Denver changes to Dever (which may or may not happen) this thread would be proof that it transitioned unless it is deleted and never existed and i don't mean by a mod or the OP but as result of the ME.

It would be awesome to actually catch things before they change but even if it were seen not everyone would witness and believe only those affected.

Things may change slowly over time in peoples minds (i.e., how they remember it) but that does not mean the thing actually changed.

For example, some people over the past 25+ years have slowly misremembered that Nelson Mandela dies in prison. He didn't (he went on to be the President of South Africa after his release from prison), but over time people begin to misremember the story as being that he died....

...but just because people have came to misremember Mandela's history that way over the past 25+ years since his release, that doesn't mean that his history slowly and mysteriously changed over those 25+ years; just those people's memories.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People


Isn't it simply that people get him confused with Steve Biko?

originally posted by: Pearj
We may be seeing an actual ME in the process of changing...

Nope, just a typo. nothing more.

When will the MElievers get a grasp on reality? Honestly guys... it's getting pretty silly and you're embarrassing.

a reply to: noonebutme

Well.. I'm not going to not experience something that affects me everyday - and I'm not going to not post about that experience.

The Mandela Effect hasn't stopped affecting me - so I can't stop dealing with it - and ATS is (was?) a place to talk about it.


So if you're embarrassed - stop reading ME threads.

Or.. Do you like being aggravated?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People


Isn't it simply that people get him confused with Steve Biko?

That might be part of it. But very few people outside of the Anti-Apartheid movement had heard of Steve Biko.

However, the first time most casual observers had heard of Nelson Mandel, it was because Mandela's frailty and ill health while in prison was all over the news. Day after day, the news talked about this very sick old man with failing health who had been jailed for 25 by the white apartheid government.

So it is not surprising that when many people think back, their memory is of a very sick man whose health had failed while in jail and had died.

But yeah -- the Steve Biko story might have had something to do with it, because Biko had died in jail 12 years earlier than when Mandela's jail time plight was in the news, and the news about Mandela may have also mentioned Biko's death in jail.

originally posted by: Pearj
a reply to: noonebutme

The Mandela Effect hasn't stopped affecting me - so I can't stop dealing with it - and ATS is (was?) a place to talk about it.

I have no doubt that the Mandela effect is real, and that it is still affecting you.

However, I also don't believe that the Mandela effect has anything to do with time shifts or altered realities. I think it has everything to do with people misremembering things, and people remembering information that may have been put out incorrectly.

The question of "if it is just misremembering, then why do so many people misremember something the same way" could be because most "westerners" or people of European descent (Americans, Europeans, Australians, etc.) all share a common cultural background. Therefore in the case of "Berenstain" v. "Berenstein", many people of the same cultural background are accustomed to last names ending in "-stein", but are not at all accustomed to names ending in "-stain". So many of those people might be apt to remember the name of the books as "Berenstein".

Another example of "why do so many people misremember something the same way" could be (as I said in the post about Nelson Mandela above) is because a large number of people are all exposed to the same cultural and media influences. In the case of Nelson Mandela, the first time most people had even heard of the man was because the news was continuously giving updates of the ill health of this sickly frail old man in jail, and discussed whether he should be jailed at all -- sick old man or otherwise. So a large number of people remember the "very sick old man" part of the story, and misremember it as being that he died in jail.

Another "Mandela Effect" I heard was people who thought Richard Dawson (of Family Feud fame) died earlier than he really did. However, that misremembered idea could be linked to the fact that the man who replaced Richard Dawson on Family Feud after Dawson retired from the show (Ray Combs) eventually died. So when the news said "Former Family Feud host dies", even if the story specified it was Ray Combs and not Richard Dawson, a large number of people hearing that news might have the kneejerk reaction that it was Dawson, only to learn that it wasn't -- but when they look back a few years later, their brains upon trying to remember the story might be more apt to remember that first "knee-jerk reaction" that it was Dawson who had died back then.

There are other examples, but the reason for the mass mis-remembering or mass mistakenly learning something is due to all of us (the masses) sharing a common cultural, social, schooling, and media experience, and we all have similar brains that might react in similar ways to those common experiences.

...and it is NOT because of alternative timelines or dimensional shifts of alternate realities.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
I have no doubt that the Mandela effect is real, and that it is still affecting you.
...and it is NOT because of alternative timelines or dimensional shifts of alternate realities.

Who knows what's causing it..

I know it's NOT because of memory issues.

originally posted by: Pearj

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
I have no doubt that the Mandela effect is real, and that it is still affecting you.
...and it is NOT because of alternative timelines or dimensional shifts of alternate realities.

Who knows what's causing it..

I know it's NOT because of memory issues.

You have absolute proof of that?

You mean "in your opinion" it's not memory issues.

Every typo is now a ME.

originally posted by: Pearj

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
I have no doubt that the Mandela effect is real, and that it is still affecting you.
...and it is NOT because of alternative timelines or dimensional shifts of alternate realities.

Who knows what's causing it..

I know it's NOT because of memory issues.

As I said, it is more than just memory issues. There are other causes for the Mandela Effect.

The Mandela Effect is also caused by people being taught things incorrectly (or too simplistically) in school. It is also a result of mistakes that are made by the media that carry over to the general public as "facts" (albeit false facts). Another cause of the Mandela Effect is that it is due to incorrect ideas and false facts being passed down through culture or pop culture.

For example, take the incorrect idea that the stomach is close to the beltline than its actual location (which is really just below the ribcage). There are many parents out there who pass along the incorrect idea to their young children that the stomach is at the beltline (usually because the parent simplistically euaqtes "tummy" to "stomach" and simplistically holds their hand just above the beltline when referring to the "tummy" to their children).

So some of those children grow up into adulthood thinking their stomachs are at their beltline, because they never learned otherwise.

This would not be a case of simply misremembering, but a combination of an inaccuracy being promote by culture when they were young children + improper learning later in life (I.e., for various reasons, they never later retained the schooled learning of actual stomach location).

The example I gave of why some people might have thought Nelson Mandela died in prison need not necessarily be a memory issue, but maybe those people were not paying close enough attention to the news in the late 1980s, and they interpreted the story of Mandela's failing health in prison to be a story about his death in prison.

There are even other things that may result in the "Mandela Effect", and not all of it is due to people misremembering things.

"Berenstain" or "Berenstein" is not a memory issue, but due to people being accustomed to last names ending in "-stein" rather than "-stain".

I found a John Dever who was/is an actor so perhaps Denver and Dever are simply getting confused.

There's several yt videos of John Denver being misspelled to John Dever which probably confuse the google algorithms used for auto correction and webpage displays.

a reply to: Pearj

I got Denver as well but if you told me he was still alive that would be news to me.