Low income people should not have insurance. They should be treated for free.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: allsee4eye


Well for you info the middle call is whats getting hit with high costs. And nothing is free as I am sure someone has said by now.

True before long there won't be a middle class... welcome back to the Dark Ages.

Yea with the tug of war going with whos chump the middle is.....rich and poor pulling hard at each end. You socialist are no better than they are really.

Socialism can be good in moderation, several countries implement socialistic healthcare but they're not actually socialist countries to my understanding. I doubt the US will ever follow suit though.

The middle is everyone's chump... too rich for assistance and too broke to be able to make ends meet.

a reply to: allsee4eye

Sounds good, I will send you their bills.

a reply to: allsee4eye

I am a doctor, and I guess I do not agree. I never signed those papers .... never want to be anyone's 'servant', especially the 'public'.

I think we need to find a way to care for everyone, at a reasonable price, but 100k a year ceiling on doctors' pay won't pay off education debt they incur over years of schooling very fast.

Only people with rich parents could afford to become those low-paid doctors in the first place; or maybe, the schooling could be 'free' (IE paid for by other people....).

There is a nasty flip side to about every 'coin' in the healthcare debate.

I could work for 100k a year and be happy, so that is not the issue, but I would want less overnight/weekend call, and far fewer hours in return.

It could be a more relaxed, easier lifestyle. Being a doctor can sometimes suck it hard, and it is not all roses, just saying.

a reply to: ElGoobero

That is an interesting angle, with the Hippocratic Oath.

Doctors take this oath, and must help all patients.

Too bad hospitals and insurance company executives do not take this oath ... because they are the ones in control, not doctors anymore.

I wish my hospital administrators could follow the Hippocratic Oath hah

They do not.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
And who's going to pay for this?

Big Major Cooperations, thats who ..

Not the Middle class The Dam Backbone of the United States!,

not the one that make less then 80 thousand ,

The Ones that should is the one's that
Bring their Industrial and manufacturing factories
over Seas ! for the More Cheap Labor and More profit
in their Pockets ! The Rather pay 10 dollars a Day In China
then 10 dollars and Hour to Their Fellow Americans

Now Industrial Plants like Alcoa ( Middle East )
and GM ( Mexico ) are Wanting to go over Seas Too



The World is a Business ,
and that how Capitalism Works !
and Always had in America
it just got worse from Free Trade!
and INFLATION, because of Free Trade!


Wow People cant Even Afford to Pay Rent

on a Barely close to Minimum Wage 40 hour Work Week ( full Time )

on the Average of 700 a Month Apartment Rent ,
and that is Putting it lightly

You actually Pay more then Half your monthly Income on Rent
not including Utility's ( electricity Gas etc. )

Why, its the cause of Inflation , The Cost of Living ,


in order to live comfortably you have to make at least $ 40,000
and even that isn't Enough on The Cost of Liivng In certain States , Counties , And Towns/Villages

Trying Being a Case Worker and Hearing The Problems in a Neighborhood Center
like I do about the Struggle , when there isn't Enough Comfortable living Paying Jobs !!

And Also to make a Note !

There Is Leach Towns!! just about every State and County has them .

The Small Towns that Feeds off a Much Bigger Town!

Those Towns cant Support or Refuse to Support Their Own People!
as they do not have the Business'es to hold their Own Weight!

It not Always The One that Refuse to Work ,
or its Druggies and Bums !or Some Undesirable Lifestyle someone has.
People!

So.. the Ones that Pay : AdmireTheDistance

Should be the Big Corporations!
seeing they are called the Elite and Run the Country!!

and you did not give that a thought ???


ANYHOW!

George was right ! ! ! !
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: [post=22395825]allsee4eye[/pos


Or not treated at all, unless they pay for it

I'll go for this if low income people are also not allowed to have children and we institute labor camps as punishment for low income people leaching off the system illegally.

originally posted by: libertytoall
I'll go for this if low income people are also not allowed to have children and we institute labor camps as punishment for low income people leaching off the system illegally.

Wait... you're advocating a system that was used during WWII! Didn't we learn that lesson??! Or have we forgotten so soon?!

This is not a good way to go at all. Oh sure.. first go after the low income but *news flash* 90% of Americans are struggling right now to make ends meet.

Unless you're among the elite you'd be a guest of such a system along with everyone else. Maybe not right away.. but sooner or later...

originally posted by: ElGoobero
what the OP means, I think, is 'poor people should get health care paid for by rich people'.

Ah, ha. The UK's NHS model is paid for by general taxation. If you don't want to work, or cannot work, then you get the same access as the highest paid.

American's may think it's a socialist model, but it's the right model.

a reply to: Vortiki


I pay about 10% of my taxes for universal healthcare and personally I am highly satisfied with it. I have had a number of health issues during my life and I have had the need to see different doctors a lot. I can not even count how many MRIs, CT scans, XRays I have needed in my life.

Once I had a bad sports injury. I had to wait for 2 weeks for surgery and the surgeon was one of the best in the nation, person who is the doctor of several Olympic winners, national team. It cost me nothing.

It would be very easy for me to afford private health care, although I do prefer the situation when everybody in the nation, even poorer ones, whose job is generally far more exhausting and routine that mine, would be able to see their doctor, whenever they are sick or feel pain. In the end, they are able to more productive members of the society as well and help towards economic growth. A sick person is far less productive than a healthy one.

I would say just seeing the doctor whenever one needs is idiotic. Every year, I personally have full blood test done to check whether the substances in my body are at normal level. Also I have load test done (dunno how its called in English, it is basically sports test, where you have to perform at high loads, while your heart activity is measured). For youth doing sports, that is mandatory test every year in order to detect heart anomalities before it is too late. One of my friends, who just played regularly sports at amateur team collapsed during the match at 21 age old and died. Had he done such test before it could have been prevented.

Personally, I can not understand why people prefer private insurance. Why does one want to pay extra in order to pay the salaries of the employees insurance companies, while having to pay out of pocket every month and still have to pay for seeing the doctor (deductible).

Here every hospital is owned by the government and every nurse/doctor is a government employee with fixed salary and hours. Of course specialists receive higher pay. All of these salaries are covered with the taxes and there is still more than enough money to make improvements, buy new technology, upgrade building etc.

And all that is just 10% of the salary. I believe majority of the Americans pay far more, when it comes to monthly payment for insurance with addition to the deductibles not covered by the insurance companies, while always being in the risk of bankruptcy when something serious happens. However healthily you live, in the end no one is protected from diseases and accidents. These things do not call ahead, they just happen.

$100K for a Doctor - Laughable


I work in a small hospital and in the southern US, we serve a lot of underserved patients (poor).
In fact more go to the ER than ever go to their "pcp" or Family Doctor.
This alone drives the cost insanely high as you are forced to test for more things and over a longer time period than just a stroll into the doctors office.

For EXAMPLE:

CHEST PAIN: Doctors office=
where are you hurting, let me listen to your lungs, does it hurt when you breathe in? yes lets draw some blood - a cbc to look for infection- cbc is a bit high lets do a chest xray. Oh you have a small pneumonia - heres a prescription.

SAME PATIENT

CHEST PAIN: ER where are you hurting, Take these 3 asprin in case its a heart attack, start IVs, normal saline, Get lab in here stat, draw cbc, cmp, cardiac enzymes, PT / PTT. Get a CXR Stat. Get an EKG. CBC is a bit high and Xray shows a bit of pneumonia starting. We will have to keep you in observation though in order to have three sets of negative cardiac enzymes to rule out heart attack. This means you will be here for 12-16 more hours. We will go ahead and start you on IV antibiotics to address the penumonia. A few hours pass pt still has pain. Lets get D-Dimer to rule out blood clot in the lungs and go ahead and order a CTA of the Pulmonary arteries. D-Dimer mildly elevated could just be the infection. CTA is negative for blood clots but also shows the start of pneumonia. Meanwhile since the D-Dimer was off we will have to do bilateral venous dopplers of the lower extremities to rule out DVT (clots in the legs that may travel to heart or lungs). Probably negative too. Since the patient has pneumonia we will go ahead and admit them for 3 days and take a chest X-ray each day and continue the IV antibiotics. During that admission they will also per the US government need a pneumonia vaccine and will need a Echocardiogram (ultrasound of the heart) . Each day they will again run a CBC and possibly a BMP or CMP as well.

NOW do you see where the costs go. And dont give me the uninsured BS. We take care of all of these patients if they have zero insurance just the same. But if they have insurance or none and try to go to the clinic they are asked for a copay or payment. If they refuse to pay they end up in the ER because we dont charge up front for Emergency treatment. These people are driving the Cost. Obamacare didnt help, if anything it provided a drug card for $4 prescription Narcotics for BS claims of chronic pain. Few started going to the Doctor, most still went to ER and none have the money to afford an $8000 copay on a Bronze plan they are forced to pay for.

Even as a hospital employee, Im forced to pay the first $450 of anything before my insurance pays for a single thing. And my costs are hundreds of dollars per month for coverage. I pay in close to $5000 in insurance per year and they dont pay a penny if i am healthy and if not I still pay that plus $450 before they pay anything. They also now are able to penalize me if i want to add my spouse at $50 a month extra plus the additional cost of her coverage... Thanks Obamacare.