Worst British military defeat in History

a reply to: paraphi

The Germans made a massive one.
"Hey, Adolph, let's invade the USSR. We'll push straight through to Moscow!"
"But Ubergruppenfuhrer, is it not winter?"
"Eh, what's a little snow going to do? They'll never expect us to attack now."
"But Napoleon..."
"Herr Fuhrer, he was French."
"Well, ok, if you really think we should."

a reply to: caf1550

I disagree the UK suffered worse.

Singapore and the 1st Afgahnistan war where worse.


This battle? Just humiliating.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Well lets throw in "The Great Mistake" during operation Market Garden... pretty big failure there lol

A joint UK/US failure

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: caf1550

I disagree the UK suffered worse.

Singapore and the 1st Afgahnistan war where worse.


This battle? Just humiliating.

This battle was definitely down to bad leadership that's for sure.I can't think of many defeats of the British Army that were as humiliating as Singapore but this one was taken very badly by the Victorian establishment at the time and explains to some degree why Rorke's Drift was so wildly celebrated at the time.

It was a remarkable and brave stand that cannot be denied but I wonder if it would have gone down in history like it has or even be remembered not to mention there being pas many VC's been awarded if Isandlwana hadn't been such a humiliating defeat prior to it.

Clearly it's not as shocking or anything like the strategic disaster that Singapore was but the it was definitely a significant blow to the nations pride at the time.

I'm not sure what you mean by the UK suffered worse though.Do you mean worse than the Germans in Russia because by any degree you can possibly measure by no one has suffered as much as the Russians and the Germans on the Eastern Front, possibly in any war in human history.

Napoleon's Grande Arme went through a hell similar to that of the Whermacht and the Red Army but it was measured in months as opposed to years.It wasn't fought with the same degree of ever spiralling pathological hatred of the Great Patriotic War/War forLebensraum.

It's hard to imagine anything in the history of warfare that could rival the war.The 2nd Punic War perhaps, the battle of Cannae was a monumental defeat for the Roman Army and as hellish a slaughter as it's possible to imagine but it was over in a day

Guys we are avoiding the elephant in the room as to why it was so shocking, they were shocked because their opponents were viewed as a bunch of naked African savages armed with spears , they thought they could roll over them with ease..anywhere else would simply have been a bad loss.

Custer's last stand was somewhat similar.

originally posted by: Spider879
Guys we are avoiding the elephant in the room as to why it was so shocking, they were shocked because their opponents were viewed as a bunch of naked African savages armed with spears , they thought they could roll over them with ease..anywhere else would simply have been a bad loss.

Custer's last stand was somewhat similar.

They where a bunch of naked African savages armed with spears.

But even the most naked Savage can win if they have enough numbers.

And the UK still won the war in the end

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: ElGoobero

ooh and lets not forget the fall of Singapore

thats what i was thinking.
Singapore being lost to Japan was a real turning point in the British Rule over its colonies.

One would think 1776 was the 'turning point/high-water mark for British imperialism.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: ElGoobero

ooh and lets not forget the fall of Singapore

thats what i was thinking.
Singapore being lost to Japan was a real turning point in the British Rule over its colonies.

One would think 1776 was the 'turning point/high-water mark for British imperialism.

HAHAHA you wish

In 1776 America was nothing but a insignificant backwater filled with religious loons.
Why do you think the UK never fully mobilised?
Hell the was nearly didn’t happen as a huge part of parliament and the British public wanted to either grant your wish for representation or just abandon the US colony’s completely and shedding blood over such a backward area seemed pointless.
It was not until the French got involved we started ramping up the empires war machine.....and then most the troops and ships went to the Caribbean which was where the most valuable colony’s where.

Then when we abandoned the US colony’s we set our sights on India which had far more riches and to a lesser extent Africa, and that is where the Empire made the majority of wealth and strength.
The US did not become a super power until around the early 1900’s and did not overtake the UK until after WW2.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: ElGoobero

ooh and lets not forget the fall of Singapore

thats what i was thinking.
Singapore being lost to Japan was a real turning point in the British Rule over its colonies.

One would think 1776 was the 'turning point/high-water mark for British imperialism.

Nah, 1850s when India became part of the Empire. Probably the highest point was during Queen Vic's funeral.

Operation market garden is not correct, there were two, 'market' and 'garden' one named for the air landing, and one named for the ground attack, I cannot remember which was which.

a reply to: crazyewok

The Powell doctrine, bring overwhelming and unequal force to bear.
The Zulus had some, the Brits had more.

As I said earlier, the Ethiopians got their medieval hands on the Maxim, the Zulus could have done better if they had those connects.

a reply to: crazyewok


One would think the French had something to do with the British never fully mobilizing for those 'loons'.

Spin as you will, that WAS the beginning of the end of 'colonies' and, at least, blatant imperialism.

Personally, I'd say a number of your 'victories' should be more humiliating. The Irish and Sykes-Picot stand out.....

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: ElGoobero

ooh and lets not forget the fall of Singapore

thats what i was thinking.
Singapore being lost to Japan was a real turning point in the British Rule over its colonies.

One would think 1776 was the 'turning point/high-water mark for British imperialism.

.

Nah, 1850s when India became part of the Empire. Probably the highest point was during Queen Vic's funeral.

High point? OK. High water mark implies the water has 'lowered'. The beginning of the end.

a reply to: crazyewok

Not for nothing Crazyewok, the Brits damned near lost Jamaica to those pesky hillbillies called Maroons ,the lost of the states was a big deal,as big a deal as the French losing Haiti, lose Jamaica and lose Canada.

originally posted by: Therisnospoon
a reply to: caf1550

Its the idiot yank paid for churchill who fried dresden to toast and sided with the scum who are dropping white phosherous and fragment bombs on kids on syria.while runniing air support for isis at the behest of the last good president in the middle east.assad.churchill destroyed our empire he could have changed japan and german minds.but the drunk minor killer had sold out

Your post is difficult to decipher. Good old Bomber Harris was behind Dresden and if Churchill had been a Chamberlain Britain would have been a German vassal since that time. In fact, Churchill did change Japanese and German minds with the assistance of the US, Soviet Union, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and various partisans and ex-pats of the countries invaded by Germany.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Well lets throw in "The Great Mistake" during operation Market Garden... pretty big failure there lol

A joint UK/US failure

Another Montgomery failure. en.wikipedia.org... 'Monty' was a second rate general who was where he was because of connections. GB had much better general officers who didn't have friends in high places.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: ElGoobero

ooh and lets not forget the fall of Singapore

thats what i was thinking.
Singapore being lost to Japan was a real turning point in the British Rule over its colonies.

One would think 1776 was the 'turning point/high-water mark for British imperialism.

.

Nah, 1850s when India became part of the Empire. Probably the highest point was during Queen Vic's funeral.

High point? OK. High water mark implies the water has 'lowered'. The beginning of the end.

Depends how you measure it, but wealth and population the Empire was at it's zenith around the time Queen Victoria passed away. Probably by land area too, since while the American territories were British, they were pretty much only the East coast.

originally posted by: nwtrucker


One would think the French had something to do with the British never fully mobilizing for those 'loons'.

We mobilesed because of the French getting involed.
And 90% of those forces went to other more important colonys as well as the UK.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

Spin as you will, that WAS the beginning of the end of 'colonies' and, at least, blatant imperialism.

No spins, Your the one putting spin.

After the US fiasco the UK went a subjected all of India and a good portion of Africa. Hardly the end of blatant imperialism. You piss ant revolution and you insignificant colonys at the time did ZERO to halt British Ambitions.
[

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: crazyewok

Not for nothing Crazyewok, the Brits damned near lost Jamaica to those pesky hillbillies called Maroons ,the lost of the states was a big deal,as big a deal as the French losing Haiti, lose Jamaica and lose Canada.

The Caribbean was far more informant than the US colonys. Caribbean was where most the reinforcemenst went after the french stuck there noses in.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: ElGoobero

ooh and lets not forget the fall of Singapore

thats what i was thinking.
Singapore being lost to Japan was a real turning point in the British Rule over its colonies.

One would think 1776 was the 'turning point/high-water mark for British imperialism.

.

Nah, 1850s when India became part of the Empire. Probably the highest point was during Queen Vic's funeral.

High point? OK. High water mark implies the water has 'lowered'. The beginning of the end.

You're not very clued up on The British Empire.

Australia became a colony in 1788, and New Zealand in 1841. Those are just two example,

If you check , you will find those dates come after 1776.

Apart from The U.S. which other nations flag incorporates The Stars & Stripes ? The above two countries flags include The British Union Flag amongst others.

Even the bloody flag of Hawaii includes The British Union Flag.