OP/ED: Hugo Chavez Dismantles Democracy in Venezuela

Oh boy...

You are very good at trying to look like a victim now...

and you also claim that i posted "unreputable sources"?....

i would like to see these "unreputable sources" that you claim... actually can't see your rants anymore, because frankly you don't give a hoot about the truth, although you are not the only one, you have an agenda in mind, and will derail any and every topic/thread to bash at the U.S. and anyone who apparently dares to show the truth about your good pal Chavez.

You are not worth the effort rainmaker, and if you want to report me go ahead because once again if i get a warning and you get none it will only show one thing about "fairness around here"...

[edit on 20-1-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
and you also claim that i posted "unreputable sources"?....

once again if i get a warning and you get none it will only show one thing about "fairness around here"...

If ATS is so unfair, then why are you actually here?

Like I said you blantantly lie, make up fiction, defame ATS, mock moderator judgement, personally insult people, and label people with derogatory terms. Chavez is not my pal no matter how many times you want to lie about it.

Examples

Pissing off members by fabricating fiction:

Originally posted by Duzey
I will restate my previous request. Do not put words in my mouth.
...snip...
Stop twisting what I say to fit your agenda.

In conclusion: I have no problem discussing this topic, I simply won't discuss it with you.

Go twist some other poster's words, I'm not playing your little games this time.

Unreputable propaganda:

Originally posted by Muaddib

Again, here is the link. Do yourself a favour and watch the entire thing, then come back and "clarify things for us".

WARNING AGAIN, THERE IS VIOLENCE IN THAT VIDEO. PEOPLE ARE SHOWN WHO ARE SHOT IN THE HEAD, THE HEART, AND GENERAL VIOLENCE.

video.google.com...

Defamation and mockery of ATS and staff:

Originally posted by Muaddib
Hell why not have ATS change it's name to Bash and Blame the U.S. and all republicans for anything and everything thread, not other topics accepted.....

I barely post in the forums anymore because it is obvious how fair and unbiased ATS has become towards Republicans who dare to respond to the insults of members like yourself...

Just for the record Bush is not a true Republican and few in office actually represent the party of Abe. Most all of the GOP is fiscally irresponsible, neoliberalized, crony-corp spendthrifts who act more like the mafia.

Personally insulting, fictionalizing and slandering members:

Originally posted by Muaddib
I said it once, i said it again... get a life Clown...
Your buddy and lover Chavez is an asshole....
...it appears that the cry baby throwing emotional fits is you
And btw, I was speaking in Spanish before your momma was wiping your behind kid.

The parallel is that Chavez, Bush, Kim Jong-il, Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mao Tse-Tung and many other oppressive egomaniacs have used the same type of tactics as listed above to force people to see only one way...their's.
_________________________________

So who does Chavez actually mirror, Simón Bolívar or?

George W. Bush:
"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it."
-- Business Week, July 30, 2001

"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier." Describing what it's like to be governor of Texas.
-- Governing Magazine 7/98

"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator," Bush joked.
-- CNN.com, December 18, 2000

Bush's Wartime Dictatorship- by Justin Raimondo

Jung might say, "The current hate pushed towards Venezuela is actually misdirected hate that should be addressed towards Bush." So let the Venuezalans decide who they want for a leader, because the US picks a crappy ones even for themsleves while under a corporate dictatorship.





[edit on 20-1-2007 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher

If ATS is so unfair, then why are you actually here?

Because i have been in these forums for a lot longer than you and the truth needs to be said as to who Chavez is and what he is doing...

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Like I said you blantantly lie, make up fiction, defame ATS, mock moderator judgement, personally insult people, and label people with derogatory terms. Chavez is not my pal no matter how many times you want to lie about it.

I haven't "lied", nor "made up fiction"... and don't play the "victim".. You keep derailing the topic of the thread to what you want to talk about...the Thread is about Chavez dismantling democracy in Venezuela... there are thousands of other threads bashing the U.S. administration and the U.S. in general, but you want to derail this one too and nothing has been done about it... I was not the only one to use derogatory comments or "insults", you have keept insulting me even after the staff said to stop it, but nothing has been done in the form of a warning to you, or even to tell you to stay on topic...

If i keep saying that Chavez is your pal is because you keep want to ignore what the thread is about, and want to claim it is all propaganda as to what Chavez is doing in Venezuela, you want to keep derailing the thread...and instead of discussing the topic you want to bash and blame the U.S. administration.

The thread is not about the U.S. administration..... it is about Chavez's goals and what he has done to Venezuela....

Originally posted by Muaddib
Again, here is the link. Do yourself a favour and watch the entire thing, then come back and "clarify things for us".

WARNING AGAIN, THERE IS VIOLENCE IN THAT VIDEO. PEOPLE ARE SHOWN WHO ARE SHOT IN THE HEAD, THE HEART, AND GENERAL VIOLENCE.

video.google.com...

Is that video a hoax?.... Are you claiming now that the video is a lie?.... Again another reason why apparently you are "Chavez's pal"... that video shows what has happened in Venezuela, yet you want to ignore it and claim it is "propaganda"?....

and as for the billboard, here is another link which is in Spanish and shows the same billboard....

www.anajuliajatar.com...

Are you going to claim that every "link in Spanish is propaganda and a lie"?...

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Defamation and mockery of ATS and staff:

Originally posted by Muaddib
Hell why not have ATS change it's name to Bash and Blame the U.S. and all republicans for anything and everything thread, not other topics accepted.....

That statement in specific was in response to a member, who like yourself, wants to derail the topic of the thread...

Originally posted by Regenmacher
I barely post in the forums anymore because it is obvious how fair and unbiased ATS has become towards Republicans who dare to respond to the insults of members like yourself...

And this thread keeps showing that what i said is true, if it wasn't, the staff would have giveng warnings to both of us, not only me....and you continued to use derogatory terms and insult and nothing is done, hence I will respond in kind like you have...even if only I get the warnings.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
The parallel is that Chavez, Bush, Kim Jong-il, Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mao Tse-Tung and many other oppressive egomaniacs have used the same type of tactics as listed above to force people to see only one way...their's.

There are no "parallels" to your claim.... and again, the thread is not about what you want to derail the topic towards to... The topic of the thread is about Chavez dismantles democracy in Venezuela...

As i asked before, show me the U.S. citizens being shot in the head or the heart in U.S. cities for being liberals, democrats, libertarians, or from any party that is not Republican....and just for oposing Chavez....

Show me the massive layoffs of American citizens being done by the govenrment because of their political beliefs....

There are no "parallels"...only your tactics in trying to derail the thread...

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Jung might say, "The current hate pushed towards Venezuela is actually misdirected hate that should be addressed towards Bush." So let the Venuezalans decide who they want for a leader, because the US picks a crappy ones even for themsleves while under a corporate dictatorship.

And again, whether you like it or not, this thread is about what Chavez is doing... There are other topics and threads being discussed in these forums...not just what you want to discuss... that last statement of yours only shows that you want to derail the topic instead of discuss it...so why are you posting here?....

There are thousands of other threads that discuss what you want to discuss.... i am pretty sure you will have a loving crowd there waiting for you...

[edit on 20-1-2007 by Muaddib]

Well,

I see that some people have a big problem with Socialism and Communism.

Want to know who "created" them?

Communism & NWO

So Marx, the Jewish Freemason, was to be the one to put forward this Communism for the world, so that Communism would look like a Jewish brain-child, so that Communism could be blamed on the Jews. Well, what's not told is that the Jews involved in the implementing of Communism were Masonic Jews. Karl Marx was a 33rd-degree Freemason, a worshipper of Lucifer, whose father wanted nothing to do with him, because his father was a Baptist preacher.

The Rothschilds financed a Jewish Mason and devote Satanist named Karl Marx to write his Das Kapital . The Satanists controlling key Masonic groups (along with some other groups they controlled) got Communism started.

Jewish Freemasonry, controlled by the Jesuits, implemented Communism in Russia. Lenin, the half-Jew, was a Freemason. That civil war that took place from 1917-1922, for 5 years.

For 10 years after the revolution, the Jews faired very well, but in 1922, Joseph Stalin, that great Jew-hater, who was educated by Jesuits in Georgia-which was a country south of Russia and, therefore, the Emperor's banning of the Jesuits from Russia, his Ukase, did not reach to Georgia. So the Jesuits stayed in Georgia, trained Joseph Stalin, brought him in after the Revolution, and made him Secretary of the Communist Party in 1922, until he died in 1953.

The Jesuits used Freemasonry and, of course, Stalin was also a brother Freemason. They used Freemasonry to implement Communism in Russia, and from there, China, and from there, throughout the world.

Just a scratch on the surface.

Belive what You wish.

Marx was a Freemason.

Lenin was a Freemason.

Communism is a creation of Freemasons.

Why not blame them?

Puppets like Castro and Chavez are just pawns on the table.

But as I said before - belive what You wish.

And so shall I.


PEACE

Originally posted by Muaddib
Because i have been in these forums for a lot longer than you and the truth needs to be said as to who Chavez is and what he is doing...

A lot longer? Check your dates and get real...

Opinions and media don't represent truth, they represent a subjective view of reality and the West produces propaganda geared for audiences who want entertainment, drama, BS and boobs. Spreading truth, yeah sure

Yes, the billboard photo is unreputable propaganda:

The Constitution is explicit: the vote is secret. Despite this, the government has tried to put fear into people by making them believe that, with the “fingerprint catcher” machines, it will be possible to find out how they voted; something that is completely false.

Yes, those google video links are unreputable propaganda and have been debunked.

This is called "reputable" propaganda by two independent filmmakers from Ireland.
Hugo Chavez - The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

More about the same film:
An interview with documentary filmmakers Kim Bartley and Donnacha O’Briain Znet
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised Official site
Chavez: Inside the Coup IMDB

There's many of parallels and they have been posted throughout this thread. So, I don't care whether you think I am derailing the thread or not, and I will continue to post in the same fashion. If you can't see the similiarities between Bush and Chavez in order to make comparisons, then that's your problem...not mine.

So you keep spreading, and here's today's results:

Viva Chavez: Venezuela is the hip new socialist utopia
Sydney Morning Herald, Australia

Now I will reveal what truth actually is: 1+1=2

[edit on 20-1-2007 by Regenmacher]

It is not "propaganda" when they come directly from Chavez's mouth...

Several of his statements have been directly excerpted from videos of him talking...the propaganda is the BS that you keep posting...

But i guess it is propaganda when it comes directly from the Venezuelan people who were there and saw other Venezuelans get shot in the head by the orders your idol Chavez....

I want to know how in the world the filming of some of the Chavistas destroys the truth that "Chavistas, police officers and military" were given the go ahead to shoot at the oposition killing and injuring those who protest against Chavez"....

I want to know how in the world does that video makes it alright to all the videos i showed including with CHavez saying he will be in power indefinetely and nomatter how many people in Venezuela want him out he will not resign....

I wonder how those propagandistic links you gave in favour of Chavez debunks the truth that you want to keep denying because you want to derail the topic of the thread....

if anything has been debunked is that you would do anything and everything in your power to derail the truth about "your pal Chavez"....

The claim by the other member that what is written in the billboard is a hoax can be easily debunked when you see the shadow that is right under the word NO.... That is a shadow from one of the powerlines that are in between the sun and the billboard.

Again, i gave a link to a spanish reporter and you want to keep claiming it is a lie and start posting real propaganda from Ireland...

Keep trying to derail the thread..the facts only show that Chavez is a dictator and is not working for the people...he has ordered the death of Venezuelans who opose him, or for those who signed a referndum against him to be fired en mass....

All you have proven it is obvious that you are Chavez's pal, and don't care for the truth.

In your world the truth is 1+1=0

[edit on 20-1-2007 by Muaddib]

Getting back to the topic at hand, I found something strange indeed, is that meanwhile there are Spanish newspapers who quoted Chavez on his inauguration saying that Jesus was " a true revolutionary, a Communist and that in order for the church to understand Communism, they have to read the writtings of Karl Marx and Lenin. According to Chavez Jesus was more of a Communist than a socialist, but there is no such mention in the English speaking newspapers, at least those that i have read.

All i see in the english speaking newspapers is that he called Jesus a socialist...meanwhile Chavez said Communist in Spanish...

“Cristo es uno de los más grandes revolucionarios que haya nacido en la tierra. El verdadero Cristo no es el que algunos sectores de la Iglesia católica manipulan. Cristo era un verdadero revolucionario socialista”, sostuvo Chávez, quien ya lanzado fue a más: “el Cristo verdadero era comunista más que socialista; era un comunista auténtico, un antiimperialista, enemigo de la oligarquía, enemigo de las elites y del poder”.
............
Por otra parte, y ante la preocupación expresada por algunos obispos sobre el contenido del "socialismo del siglo XXII", que será el objetivo de su nuevo mandato Chávez les remitió a los escritos de Karl Marx y Vladimir Lenin y a la Biblia para que "aprendan lo que significa socialismo".

www.terra.com...

Wow...apparently Chavez's Communism is the same as Communism according to Lenin.... enough said....

[edit on 20-1-2007 by Muaddib]

Here is a link to the whole speech of Chavez, where he finally declares to be Communist, and where it is corroborated everything that I said...the only problem is that it is in Spanish.

Y te juro, José Vicente, te juro, que aún sintiéndome al borde de la muerte salí en tu defensa y dije ¿comunista? Bueno, podrá ser comunista, yo también lo soy, y luchamos por la dignidad de los seres humanos.

In the bolded section above Chavez is speaking about him defending Jose Vicente and saying, "he is a Communist? well, he could be a Communist, and so I am"

Another part which apparently the English speaking newspapers are not excerpting is the following.

Cristo es uno de los más grandes revolucionarios que haya nacido en esta tierra. Cristo, el verdadero Cristo, no el que algunos sectores de la Iglesia Católica manipula. Cristo era un verdadero revolucionario, socialista. Igualdad. Igualdad. “Bienaventurados los pobres porque de ellos será el Reino de los Cielos. Más fácil será que un camello entre por el ojo de una aguja, a que un rico entre el Reino de los Cielos”. Ese el Cristo verdadero, el de la propiedad común. Cristo era comunista. Era un comunista auténtico, antiimperialista, enemigo de la oligarquía y de las élites del poder.

i think everyone can understand at least Cristo Communista, from the above...

www.pdvsa.com.../design/biblioteca/readdoc.tpl.html&newsid_obj_id=3407&newsid_temas=110

So, why is it that no English speaking newspaper is excerpting those parts where Chavez declares to be Communist?...and he claims that Christ was more of a Communist than a socialist?..and that in order for the church to know socialism they have to read the writtings of Karl Marx and Lenin?....

Why is it that none of that has been excerpted? I could be wrong, but I have been looking at CNN's, USA Today, and some other English speaking newspapers reporting on Chavez inauguration speech, and none of them excerpt those parts of his speech... They only say he refers to himself and Christ as "socialists"... they should be saying "red socialist"...or as Chavez himself has said, Communism.

[edit on 20-1-2007 by Muaddib]

Next week Chavez officially becomes a dictator.

Jan 31, 7:45 AM (ET)

By FABIOLA SANCHEZ

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - President Hugo Chavez is set to assume unbridled powers to remake Venezuelan society as the National Assembly prepares to grant him authority to enact sweeping measures by presidential decree.

Article

Think about this the next time you want to call Bush a Dictator or Facist.
He may be stupid, stubborn, and unlikeable, but there is still a congress in this country that can block almost anything he tries to do (if they have the onions).

I thought the recent developments in Venezuela (Chavez's shut down of broadcasters) was a good reason to give this thread a bump. Please disregard if this is being discussed on a new thread.

news.yahoo.com...

I see that this is an active topic on a new thread....please disregard

people always say that socialism is not sustainable. its capitalism that isnt sustainable. always looking for short term profits with no plan in sight for the long term losses. personally i love chavez and i've watched three documentries on venezuela. i love democracy and venezuela has the best democracy in the world. the community is the real source of the democratic action. i also love the socialist dream, a classless society. we live in a very fear based society here in amerikkka. people are brainwashed to think materialism is so important to their identity. the people that support chavez in venezuela are happy when they wake up and thats the most important thing.

Originally posted by Gools
His crime?

Raising taxes on exported oil to pay for education, infrastructure, and medical services. Taking care of his poor and standing up to the wealthy class. Bartering oil with Cuba for medical technology and selling oil to countries other than the US. Wow what a commie MONSTER! Let's nuke him!

Please don't nuke him.
Send him over here to Australia! We need someone like him here!

Venezuela show be condemned for supporting FARC, and EVIL TERRORIST ORGANISATION

Columbian army are the GOOD GUYS - read about it here :

from : news.bbc.co.uk...

Colombian army commander resigns

The commander of the Colombian army, Gen Mario Montoya, has resigned following a scandal which tied military officers to the deaths of 11 civilians.

Three generals and 24 other soldiers have already been fired, accused of killing the men in order to inflate army statistics on rebel deaths.

The killings provoked a public outcry and an investigation is under way.

The UN has said Colombia must do more to address such killings, which it said are "systematic and widespread".

"I have passed 39 years in the service of my country and today I can say that journey has come to an end," said Gen Montoya.

He urged people not to judge the dismissed personnel without first giving them a chance to defend themselves.

Rights groups say the men who were killed were kidnapped or lured from slums in Bogota with the promise of work, before being killed in combat zones.

Last week, the government dismissed 27 military personnel, including three generals, 11 colonels, four majors, a captain, a lieutenant, and seven non-commissioned officers.


COLOMBIA DEATHS
11 young men disappeared from poor Bogota suburb in early 2008
Their bodies were found in mass graves near Venezuela border in August and September
Rights groups accuse the army of killing civilians to inflate successes
President Alvaro Uribe said a military inquiry had determined they had been guilty at least of negligence that included allowing "the collusion of members of the army with criminals" in "the murder of innocents".

"We cannot allow any violation of human rights," he told a press conference.

One of the sacked officers, Gen Jose Joaquin Cortes, denied the allegations, telling Colombian radio: "I still absolutely believe in the innocence of my men."

The BBC's Jeremy McDermott in Bogota says the scandal appears to be part of a wider problem of what is known in Colombia as "false positives" - civilian deaths being claimed as rebels.

More than 2,300 members of the security forces or state functionaries are under investigation for such extrajudicial killings, says our correspondent.



comment : Colombia are the good guys and always tell the truth. Venezeula/FARC are evil. The peasants murdered by Colombian army were obviously evil communists too. They were lured with promise of work. If they were good, they would have job already.

THE article is from fox news , which is propagnada BS and thereby has no credibility at all

nuff said

Hello, Im new to the site as of today. My name is IRIS. I been to this site before as I often research NWO and such things. One thing I can say is the following. Im really not the brightest crayon in the box. Im 26 years old, and I was born in Venezuela. I came to the US when I was 4 years old.


I am daughter of Iris Aristiguieta, who was a sister to one of those political prisoners in the list. I know that I am probably late to the thread ( more than a few years late.) But the internet is the internet, and this information will be here forever. I am the niece to Tayro Robinson Aristiguieta whom was accused in March of 2003 of the killings of 3 soldiers. My uncle was from Venezuelan Intellegence. He was no killer. But was "FRAMED". He was kept in a prison called LA PLANTA where he was kept until he was murdered by the people sent by the Venezuelan Government. You see, at the time that those soldiers were killed my uncle was giving a press conference because another uncle Nestor Aristiguieta the youngest male brother of the Aristiguieta family was murdered a year before also by Chavez people. My uncle Tayro being the OLDEST sibling decided to go on an investigation trying to figure out how his younger brother really died. My uncle went on a rampage of interviews, my grandmother too, and the rest of my family here in the states we started moving and moving the media and do interviews because of my uncle Nestor. From what we know Tayro found some incriminating information of how one of Chavez right hand people sent to kill my uncle Nestor. So, they kidnapped my uncle and sent him to the PLANTA prison which is a dedicated prison for fallen politicians, and cops. Every trial was delayed. Everytime we had a date for trial it was pushed back even though they had no reasons to keep him in prison.I remember I would talk to my uncle ( He had phone privileges that we paid for so he can have.) all the time at least 2/3 times a week and it came to a point where he always said that he was going to be killed. We thought he was paranoid. I called him on his birthday which was in fact two days before he was murdered. Two prisoners from EL RODEO which is prison for highly dangerous criminals were brought in to LA PLANTA (They were not supposed to be there because they weren't ex politics or cops) and they came and killed my uncle Tayro leaving behind an year son and a 4 year old daughter. They stabbed him and stabbed him, in the prison they found a cell phone, his cell phone where he was trying to call for help. We got recordings on voicemail where you can hear how we telling the criminals that he had children, to please not kill him.... All the crap that has been told about him, and my family in Venezuelan news are complete vile vicious dirty lies. He was a good hearted guy, very funny. And my uncle Nestor was an actor, kinda of an airhead really, he wasn't a criminal. I read things on LA TIMES and USA TODAY and all of this is crap. These guys that were arrested and have been political prisoners I can bet that some how opposed Chavez and he just got them framed. Some have died innocently while the real criminals are in his Government roaming Freely. Its quite unfortunate if you ask me.

Originally posted by Sauron

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I think Chavez is turning Venezuela into mob rule quite a different thing than democracy.

Democracy is mob rules,

every much true.