The Maury Island Mystery – UFO? Hoax? Or Something Else?

originally posted by: mirageman
Even bringing a case of fraud against them would be difficult. Very few people were involved at all. What seems to maybe have been at play was they were being coerced into saying it was all a fraud for whatever reason the FBI had.

If the FBI thought it actually WAS a fraud, couldn't that be the reason?

Excellent post!!! It's bizarre to have so many connections to so many different bizarre events and government programs. Forget the hat, I need a tinfoil rolodex and flow chart for this one!!

a reply to: mirageman

Fantastic. I never knew there was so much in this case. Lots of great reading, Thanks!

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: mirageman
Even bringing a case of fraud against them would be difficult. Very few people were involved at all. What seems to maybe have been at play was they were being coerced into saying it was all a fraud for whatever reason the FBI had.

If the FBI thought it actually WAS a fraud, couldn't that be the reason?

Of course. The whole thing does seem to appear to have been a hoax that got out of hand. That's perfectly logical. It's the character of Fred Crisman and his strange history that intrigues me.

hoax : www.ufoexplorations.com...
btw that link debunks the crisman bs

a reply to: humanoidlord

Yes I don't think the UFO story stands up at all. Crisman seems to have been pulling the strings behind that as well.

I am not 100% certain about what Anthony Bragalia deduces about Crisman is accurate. Sure he seems to have been a Walter Mitty character but he did testify in investigations to the JFK assassination.

For further amusement or bemusement read his testimony : www.aarclibrary.org...

a reply to: mirageman

nope, crisman was just an manchild trying to turn famous by grasping at straws

originally posted by: humanoidlord
a reply to: mirageman

nope, crisman was just an manchild trying to turn famous by grasping at straws

I don't believe in coincidence, and there is a festival of it going on in this story with tentacles that have whole other contexts. Fairly amazing.

a reply to: humanoidlord

Are you saying that testimony is fake? Or is it a general point?

If you read it, then it seems to back up the fact that he was a "Walter Mitty".

a reply to: mirageman

a general point

a reply to: humanoidlord

Ah OK. I tend to agree then

The tramp thing that may have involved Chrisman, is interesting.



The first tramp in line was thought to be Thomas Vallee, or Frank Sturgis (of Watergate fame) or Daniel Carswell. The second tramp in line was identified as either Sturgis or Carswell. The last tramp was "identified" as E. Howard Hunt or Fred Chrisman.

In 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations reported that forensic anthropologists had analyzed and compared the photographs of the "tramps" with those of Crisman, as well as with photographs of Watergate figures E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, and two other men.[4] According to the Committee, only Crisman resembled any of the tramps; but the same Committee determined that he was not in Dealey Plaza on the day of the assassination.[

No surviving arrest records as well. Really does have a stink to it.

a reply to: charlyv

They are also fairly well dressed tramps if you ask me.

a reply to: mirageman

Yeah, the first 2 especially. Another anomaly that came out is they were arrested withing five minutes of the assassination, but other pictures of the tramps show longer shadows which made theorists suspect they were taken a few hours later. What happened that day has so many mysteries in it, as well as all of those people mentioned, and there are threads that discuss how they probably knew each other as well. What are the odds...

originally posted by: charlyv
Yeah, the first 2 especially. Another anomaly that came out is they were arrested withing five minutes of the assassination, but other pictures of the tramps show longer shadows which made theorists suspect they were taken a few hours later.

The sun can't lie and sundials never run slow. Those shadows are long because the sun was low.

Here (PDF) is a Lobster essay about the 'tramps' conundrum that does a decent job of explaining the situation. (Spoiler: It appears that, as unlikely as it seems, two separate sets of tramps were arrested in Dealey Plaza, roughly two hours apart). I've plugged "Lobster" on ATS before, and no doubt will have cause to do so again as it is a must-read.

So, going back to Chrisman, and the reason he jumps out of a UFO conspiracy as well as being in a compromising location in the assassination of JFK. Look at the company he keeps. Akin to the kind of person that David Ferrie was as well as Hunt. Swiss army knives of covert know-how, most likely trained by the same people. Again, I think all of the names in the lists of "tramps" knew each other and had ties to the most sensational events, because they were good at it. This is why Garrison was so interested in them. The organization of these kinds of people that seem to pop up, and how that is managed, is a real part of all of these conspiracies.

Was Crisman a pilot himself?

Seems interesting that we continue to have pilots /former air force/ OSS/AFOSI folks turning up in prominent UFO cases (which is understandable) but also turning up in the JFK plot.
Barry Seal and David Ferry were both in Oswalds Civil Air Patrol squadron back in New Orleans. Ferry and Oswald were cadets and Barry Seal was one of the Adult leaders. Seal is of course the famous drug smuggling CIA asset that flew into Mene Arkansas.
Wonder if the CIA used the UFO stories as cover ups for their smuggling flights?

a reply to: charlyv

I find all these links to the JFK assassination intriguing. But other than having watched the Oliver Stone "JFK" movie and a few documentaries I can't offer any real insight into this without doing a tremendous amount of research.

I'd settled for Crisman being just a Walter Mitty fantasist type of character? But it seems you think there is something more to all this? Could he be a 'pawn' in a much wider game. As was perhaps Oswald?

Shot down by anti aircraft fire in 47?War was over in 45..Serious BS being slung around this story.