Degradation of the Dialogue

Greetings, ATS.

As usual, I come back from a hiatus to pose a question, or to share with you all my views on a subject.

This time- it is the status of dialogue in this country; the USA. We as a country were founded as a country governed by the people, and the tool that we had to garner the bipartisan support needed to pass bills, to create laws, was dialogue. It was our ability to speak to one another.

I live in a state that luckily has no large city; and therefore I have to rely on watching videos posted from people who were there. Either in my local 111%'ers group page, or on youtube, I see what has happened to our ability to hold dialogue.

If you haven't seen, and can't look it up for whatever reason; here's a rundown- There are two sides right now. The regressive left, with ANTIFA, BLM, BAMN, and a few other cringe...I mean "Fringe" groups. On the other side of the proverbial battlefield are the Constitutionalists (otherwise known by the regressives as "fascists" "nazis" and "alt-righters" [imho, alt-right are a bunch of boogey-men; they don't exist anywhere in the numbers the left would have you believe])

So these two lines are drawn, and you would expect along the dividing line, you would see some attempts at dialogue, right? Wrong. All you get are the Constitutionalists asking the left what it is they're protesting, or fighting for, and the left replies with "F* YOU! F* YOU! F* YOU!" or "WHOS STREET? OUR STREET"

The Constitutionalists will defend their logic with examples of what's been happening, with dates and names. You know- specific examples. The left will just spew rhetoric that isn't backed by any kind of reality.

So, the problem is this. We have degraded into a situation, where one side just plain WILL NOT be open to discussion. This is a troubling thing. It is troubling, because there is no negotiation that can be held. There is no understanding that can be reached.

The only thing that can happen; is violence. I hope it will not come to that.

And seeing the footage of the regressives at the shooting range, that went around a month or so ago...I know exactly how a pissing match with brass will go, and who will have a large number of casualties.

Anyway- here are a few videos. You guys can feel free to post your own examples. Don't mind most of the titles as they are mostly "Click bait" titles. (That's youtube these days)

-warning, language-

a reply to: Iconic

So, the problem is this. We have degraded into a situation, where one side just plain WILL NOT be open to discussion. This is a troubling thing. It is troubling, because there is no negotiation that can be held. There is no understanding that can be reached.

Mob rule in public and online, doesn't it cost to have more than four lines of text? Being raised in a vacuum of neglect and boredom from too much de-education, video games and lack of parenting skills, who thought it would turn out this way?

I did. The advent of a television in every home, then every room was the beginning of the decline, imo.

a reply to: intrptr

That quote from Louis CK, about how kids are sitting in front of just bright flashing colors, and people screaming at them. "go up behind them when they're watching tv, and just turn it off. See what happens"

-sigh- We're in for a rough decade at least.

originally posted by: Iconic
a reply to: intrptr

That quote from Louis CK, about how kids are sitting in front of just bright flashing colors, and people screaming at them. "go up behind them when they're watching tv, and just turn it off. See what happens"

-sigh- We're in for a rough decade at least.

The MK Ultra TV 'programming' is done its 'dumb down' work.

a reply to: Iconic

Apparently, it's part of the marxist belief system.
Never engage in dialogue with the other side, because they are not the same as you.
They are the others.
No dialogue is allowed with people outside of your group.

a reply to: Iconic

You're right, there's been a total degradation in "dialogue"; but if the commentator/expert Fareed Zakaria had as a guest on his Sunday show, the degradation in "dialogue" is even worse than you're describing it, in that, it extends to moderates in both camps.

A summation of how this guy broke it down:
1) In previous decades, "political" issues revolved around policy approaches to addressing problems, i.e., this will work best v. that will work best and the sides would typically settle on a compromise through debate. These are called "Ideological" divides.

Nowadays, the "sides" are not about Ideology, they are about tribal identity, they are "personal" or about "personality" and so the opposing sides believe the "other" side is purely evil and that its all wrong to compromise with that evil on any issue. Hence the vitriolic rhetoric. This is called the "othering of ones opponents. The process of "othering" dehumanizes ones opponents and therefore renders the unthinkable.........thinkable. This is how people get marched off to the showers at the concentration camp.

2) The different sides are nearly entirely isolated unto themselves. They only speak to like-minded members of their particular subset. There is no discussion or interchange between the various sides in the public square, in fact, not only is the public square all but empty, for the most part..........its gone altogether. Worse, by talking only to like-minded members, they operate in echo chambers that only reinforce their particular tribal views and affiliations. And, in the US this phenomenon isn't just "viewpoint", tribal isolation, its geographic as well as people are clustering in areas where their viewpoints are ascendant.

On the show, after 15 minutes of debate, the general consensus was that a) politics in the US has descended to the level of Middle Eastern politics, i.e., Shia (grouping) v. Sunni or "Arab" v. Israeli"; and that b) once a society has regressed to this point, there's practically no going back.

Another peculiar viewpoint that was expressed is that in the long run, it may not matter as far as the US is concerned, at least for so long as their isn't a major crisis, because in actuality, the US has moved into the "post-democratic" stage, where the business of "governing" has been reduced to mere "regulating" and is carried out by entrenched bureaucracies that pay no heed to the political squabling or even the legislation passed by the Political Governing bodies like Congress or the White House.

a reply to: Iconic

Coming from a centrist viewpoint I see at as neither side will acknowledge a true and open discussion. I'm critical of the right at this moment due to reasons, as much as I was critical of the left when they held a seat in the oval office. It just seems that no one wants an open and honest dialogue and very few are even willing to examine these times in comparison to past events.

I do not condone political violence in these times, however there have been historical times where it was warranted. These times and current events are certainly not close to what those historical times were (not necessarily in this country) but they do walk perilously close in some respects.

I'm just TIRED of trying to have dialogue with conservatives who seem HELL BENT on America becoming a 3rd world country.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
I'm just TIRED of trying to have dialogue with conservatives who seem HELL BENT on America becoming a 3rd world country.

"You got some splainin to do" . Or is this just another foreign hit and run ?

a reply to: Iconic

Disgust this!

a reply to: Iconic

Great question. Over the past couple of years I have thought about this a lot. Not being King Solomon, my conclusions are not bullet proof however. I would consider the following:

- We hear so much about this being the state of humans today. I offer this is just humans in general. Today, yesterday, or 500 years ago. While there will always be those who think and discern, the vast majority are comfortable merely reacting or ignoring. What's even scarier is the majority seems almost immune to or repulsed by a cogent argument. I have no clue why this is. If you look for these conditions in history though, you will find them over and over.

- Grouping people into tidy categories (e.g. progressive, Constitutionalist, etc) and assigning behavior thusly is problematic. It tends to lead to a closed rather than open mind. The opposite of what a critical thinker is trying to achieve. I can fully appreciate the tendency and am guilty of it from time to time myself.

- It is very easy to give up when trying to conduct a dialog with someone who has no clue what it means.

- I am convinced society rarely faces problems. We face dilemmas. Problems generally have one clear cut solution. Dilemmas on the other hand have multiple possible means to an end. The end itself is usually not too contentious. But the means? Everyone wants to maintain free speech. But what happens when that ideal hits the cold, cruel world of differing opinions?

Sorry if this was long. Just my dos centavos.

Liberals tend towards violence..

It's inherent to their bereft ethos...

We, the silent majority tend to voice our disdain through legal action like voting and political discourse....not violence...

Those behaviors are the sole dominion of the amoral progressivist...



-Chris