The human brain sees the world as an 11-dimensional multiverse

a reply to: slapjacks

I've been experiencing some anomalies lately. Logged for further research. S&F

a reply to: muzzleflash

In math
A line is 1-D
A square is 2-D
A cube is 3-D

In Physics
A dimension is any physical measurement (mass, length, speed, time, etc)

You brain is physical. Being physical, the properties can be measured and quantified (given numbers). Which is what the mathematician did by using topology and mathematical dimensions in her analysis.

The NY Post writer glommed onto the notion of 11-dimensions (math) and physics' 11-Dimensional M-theory (IIRC, "M" stands for "membrane" sometimes shortened to "brane" which you linked).

The Wired article they talk to the mathematician. Nowhere does Wired quote or mis-quote her by equating the two (math and theoretical physics). The NY Post did so by using the term "multiverse".

Kashai's avatar is a good representation of a hyper-dimensional polygon. In math, it is just a number not an actual description of what a 4- or 5- dimensional object looks like. And you can perform algebra on hyper-dimensional objects. That is how M-Theory started was because you could do maths on higher dimensions! It took them 11 to adequately describe the physical world.

To describe how neurons interact to perform tasks it took up to 11-dimensions in algebraic topology. Coincidence? OK. But it does not mean equal (math and theoretical physics).

Look at the source: NY Post. You need a science source. Check out the ScienceAlert! article...

The team used algebraic topology, a branch of mathematics used to describe the properties of objects and spaces regardless of how they change shape. They found that groups of neurons connect into 'cliques', and that the number of neurons in a clique would lead to its size as a high-dimensional geometric object.

ScienceAlert The Human Brain Can Create Structures in Up to 11 Dimensions.

The empty spaces between cliques were also noted. But nowhere do they equate "clique with 11-dimensions" to "seeing the multiverse in 11-dimensions". That was a stretch by somebody who does not understand math.

It is fun to ponder! Not trying to rain on anybody's parade. Just pointing out the bad mistake of equating a math dimension with a theoretical physics dimension.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF


Agreed

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Ok so it was the journalist who mucked it all up (in your assessment)?
Figures because very few journalists are well versed in anything they discuss.

Honestly the scientists need to start writing their own articles and just presenting them for news publication to avoid all of this. It seems to happen weekly multiple times.

That's why I linked the Dimension wiki because the articles sensationalism didn't clarify how the word "dimension" was being defined very well and I wanted to point out that there are tons of ways of using that word in different contexts.

I do agree that the 11 dimensions reference (which is exactly what M Theory posits) is a very uncanny coincidence and so that it isn't conflating the two completely separate topics (topology) than the mathematician should have been explicit about it because they should have seen this coming from miles away.

Do you think the brain will ever be fully understood? I personally think the Brain is like the Universe, vast and endless.

Maybe they are the same thing?

I had a revelation once...

"The all exist within everything"

originally posted by: VegHead
Two (probably dumb) questions:

(1) what is the mulitiverse connection here? Multi-dimensions is different than multiverse, right? Couldn't 11 dimensions all be part dimensions of this universe?

(2) what purpose would it serve for our brains to function on 11 dimensions? If we don't perceive or knowingly interact with our world that way, what would be the evolutionary advantage? Why would that even exist?

Thanks for posting this... very interesting even though it is clearly over my head.

Bees are thought to think in six dimensions. This is the archived copy:

web.archive.org/web/20120731185946/
www.neuroquantology.com...:honeybees-are-found-to-interact-with-quantum-fields&catid=5 9:quantum-field-theory-in-brain&Itemid=70

preview.alturl.com...

It's more the number of variables that are being used. If some calculation required position (P), velocity (V), acceleration (A) and change in acceleration (DA) in three dimensions as well as time (t), that would be 13 dimensions (Pxyz, Vxyz, Axyz, DAxyx, t) of data. But since we use linear algebra, and group the three XYZ values into an vector variable, this gets reduced down to having to think about five variables.

Some calculations might involve predicting whether something is going to hit us or not. That would require calculating the closest point of approach and when it happens.

a reply to: muzzleflash

In mathematics,topology is concerned with the properties of space that are preserved under continuous deformations, such as stretching and bending, but not tearing or gluing. This can be studied by considering a collection of subsets, called open sets, that satisfy certain properties, turning the given set into what is known as a topological space

en.wikipedia.org...

Just felt we should begin with some fundamentals.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Thanks, now I've forgotten my name.

a reply to: muzzleflash

This is fun stuff to contemplate! Funky coincidence for sure. Universe seems to have a sense of humor.

Don't get me wrong. I like thinking about wild and strange things too! But I've linked a story from MSM without doing the research on what was being reported and a member here let me know not to trust MSM to get science correct. Which is why I try to go the original source when I can. Sometimes it is so convoluted that I'm not certain what it means!

I had a, "This is math! I know math!!" moment so found a better source which calmed down the wild speculation and questions when I realized what probably happened.

I do wonder about the physical dimensions and what they mean and/or are doing here! An ESP hideout would be a great use. We don't know how quantum particles talk to each other so they could be hiding the wall of dimensions!

I wonder what cliques look like under the influence of derived barley ergot? That would be... trippy!

originally posted by: and14263
How do you perceive/measure 4 dimensional and 5 dimensional occurrences?

I will say everything looks better, and more beings are present that you can physically see.

It is time to unlock our brains entirely,

Introduction in quantum aspects of brain function

Since the development of QM and relativistic theories in the first part of the 20th century, attempts have been made to understand and describe the mind or mental states on the basis of QM concepts (see Meijer, 2014, Meijer and Korf, 2013,). Quantum physics, currently seen as a further refinement in the description of nature, does not only describe elementary microphysics but applies to classical or macro-physical (Newtonian) phenomena as well. Hence the human brain and its mental aspects are associated to classical brain physiology and are also part of a quantum physical universe. Most neurobiologists considered QM mind theories irrelevant to understand brain/mind processes (e.g. Edelman and Tononi, 2000; Koch and Hepp, 2006).

However, there is no single theory on QM brain/mind theory. In fact a spectrum of more or less independent models have been proposed, that all have their intrinsic potentials and problems. The elements of quantum physics discussed here are summarized in Table 1 and 2; details of the various QM theories have been described elsewhere (Meijer, 2012; Meijer and Korf, 2013).

Some QM mind options assume some sort of space-time multidimensionality, i.e there are more than the four conventional space-time dimensions. Other options assume that one or more extra dimensions are associated with a mental attribute or that the individual mind is (partly) an expression of a universal mind through holonomic communication with quantum fields (Fig.1). The latter idea has led to holographic (holonomic) theories (Pribram 1986, 2011). The human brain is then conceived as an interfacing organ that not only produces mind and consciousness but also receives information. The brain or parts of the brain are conceived as an interference hologram of incoming data and already existing data (a “personal universe”). If properly exposed (“analyzed”), information about the outer world can be distilled.

In neurobiological terms, the existing data is equivalent to the subject’s memory, whereas the “analyzer” is cerebral electrophysiology. Bohm hypothesized that additional dimensions are necessary to describe QM interference processes, thereby circumventing probabilistic theories and consciousness-induced collapse of the wave function. In this theory, the universe is a giant superposition of waves, representing an unbroken wholeness, of which the human brain is a part (Bohm, 1990). Accordingly, the individual mind or consciousness is an inherent property of all matter (and energy), and as such being part, or rather an expression, of this universal quantum field. The apparently diffuse time/space localization of mental functions argues in favor of an underlying multidimensional space/time reality. Bohm and Hiley (1987) also proposed a two-arrow (bidirectional) time dimension. In this concept the stochastic (or double stochastic) character of quanta is explained by an underlying quantum field: the implicate order. This concept implies entanglement (non-locality) as well. 3

Another hypothesis, having the potential to couple wave information to mental processes, proposes that wave information is transmitted from and into the brain by wave resonance. Through conscious observation they collapse locally to material entities (Stapp 2009; Pessa and Vitiello, 2003; Schwartz et al., 2004). Stapp (2012) argued that this does not represent an interference effect between superposed states (as assumed by Hameroff and Penrose, 1996), but that through environmental de-coherence, super-positions become informative to the brain/organism. A complementary implication of these theories is that mental processes are not necessarily embedded in entropic physical time. In line with this QM idea is that memories are not stored as a temporal sequence, but rather a-temporally.


Fig. 1: The hypothesis that the universe and our minds are integral parts of a universal consciousness

Some QM mind theories suppose the possible involvement of specific molecules. A spectrum of ions and molecules has been suggested to operate in a quantum manner (Tuszinsky and Woolf 2010). For instance QM theories have been based on micro-tubular proteins (Penrose 1989; Hameroff 2007), proteins involved in synaptic transmission (Beck and Eccles 1992; Beck 2001), including Ca ion-channels (Stapp 2009) and channel proteins instrumental in the initiation and propagation of action potentials (potassium-ion channels, Bernroider and Roy 2004. There is also the hypothesis that synaptic transmission represents a typical (quantum) probability state that becomes critical for an all or none neuronal response (Beck and Eccles 1992; Beck 2001). Attributing non-linear and non-computable characteristics of consciousness, 4

Hameroff and Penrose, 2011, 2013, argue against mechanisms of all or none firing of axonal potentials (Beck and Eccles, 2003). They rather prefer the model of Davia (2010), proposing that consciousness is related to waves traveling in the brain as a uniting life principle on multiple scales. According to some QM mind theories (Woolf and Hameroff, 2001), tunneling was proposed to facilitate membrane/vesicle fusion in neural information processing at the synapse.

Kauffman relates quantum processes in the biological matrix of the brain to the emergence of mental processing (Kauffman 2010; Vattay et al. 2012). This theory, mainly based on chromophores detecting photons, assumes that the coherence of some quantum configurations adhered to proteins is stabilized or is maintained by re-coherence. This principle may have guided evolutionary selection of proteins. Accordingly, mind and consciousness are both quantum mechanical and an expression by the classical neural mechanisms. The underlying coherent quantum states provide the potentiality for the collapse to the de-coherent material state, resulting in classical events such as firing neurons, that are at least to some extent, acausal, i.e. beyond classical determinacy. The quantum system (of the brain) interacts with a quantum environment, the phase information is lost and cannot be reassembled. By entanglement, the quantum coherence in a small region, e.g. the cell or the brain, might have spatial long-range effects (Vattay et al. 2012; Hagan et al. 2002). Kauffman accepts long-lived coherence states in biological molecules at body temperature (now 750 femto-seconds in chlorophyll at 77K) to be potentially enabling parallel problem solving as major challenges for further investigations.

The question is also which neurons or neuronal structures are in particular associated to the coherence/de-coherence brain model of consciousness.

quantum-mind.co.uk...

Further reading...

Neural Coherence and the Content of Consciousness

www.appliedneuroscience.com...&cognition1997.pdf

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation

I also feel that with more AI technology we develop the weaker our brain becomes. Hell I used to be great at simple mathematics. Just like 5-7 years ago I could simply add 2 fairly large numbers in my head without the use of a calculator. Not so much anymore. My spelling used to be good too, now simple words tend to give me fits at times.

Interesting point.

I agree. How many of us can ABSOLUTELY recall every phone number or email address of EVERY contact we may have in our phones?

I remember having to remember which in turn exercised the memory of my brain. Now we are screwed if our devices either loose service or power.

We lose power to be connected, and we inevitably lose our power to "connect".

I think we seriously need to revisit ourselves and our abilities.... the basics.

a reply to: Kashai

Good food for thought, thanks for linking that.

This part I think we'd all like to know the answer to:

By entanglement, the quantum coherence in a small region, e.g. the cell or the brain, might have spatial long-range effects (Vattay et al. 2012; Hagan et al. 2002).

Psychokinesis / Telekinesis (???)

a reply to: Kashai

Quantum in math is fundamentally very different than Physics.

Some of the issues of the definition stem from this.

In Math, Quantum is any variable set of functions greater than 2. An example of 2 variable functions would be 1's and 0's.
-100111001101

A Quantum computer would use functions other than 'on' and 'off'. Your brain does this. This could be variations of 'on' and 'off' at the same time, specific sequences of 'on'/'off' in a single function and even functions that don't relate to 'on'/'off'("left""right""down""up") at all.

What these functions are in the brain is a huge mystery, but the easiest way to prove that is Quantum is processing efficiency.

It's statistically impossible for your brain to be a classical computer and process 2.2 billion megaflops and store 3.5 quadrillion bytes of information on 20 watts of electricity. It is able to do this because the very first number in it's function is a more sophisticated algorithm than nearly an entire binary systems operator.

What this means for other dimensions is a completely separate story. While it's true a Quantum computer could function like this, and it's possible we transfer/process/gather information from other dimensions, this is a huge leap in logic from the assertion that the pre-programmed code of our brain is vastly more sophisticated than 'switches'. Quantum mind shouldn't suggest other dimensions at all. It suggests a very intense algorithm.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Orchestrated reduction of quantum coherence in brain microtubules: A model for consciousness

www.alice.id.tue.nl...

Though a human is comprised of over fifty trillion cells, there are no physiologic functions in our bodies that were not already pre-existing in the biology of the single, nucleated (eukaryotic) cell. Single-celled organisms, such as the amoeba or paramecium, possess the cytological equivalents of a digestive system, an excretory system, a respiratory system, a musculoskeletal system, an immune system, a reproductive system and a cardiovascular system, among others. In the humans, these physiologic functions are associated with the activity of specific organs. These same physiologic processes are carried out in cells by diminutive organ systems called organelles

Studies on cloned human cells led me to the awareness that the cell’s plasmalemma, commonly referred to as the cell membrane, represents the cell’s “brain.” Cell membranes, the first biological organelle to appear in evolution, are the only organelle common to every living organism. Cell membranes compartmentalize the cytoplasm, separating it from the vagaries of the external environment. In its barrier capacity, the membrane enables the cell to maintain tight “control” over the cytoplasmic environment, a necessity in carrying out biological reactions. Cell membranes are so thin that they can only be observed using the electron microscope. Consequently, the existence and universal expression of the membrane structure was only clearly established around 1950.

www.brucelipton.com...

a reply to: slapjacks


Kind of looked like a Jackson Pollock painting. Very Very cool, Maybe that ties to the story of '___' users have been found to reach a higher level of consciousness story that came out recently S&F

In some sense man is a microcosm of the universe; therefore what man is, is a clue to the universe. We are enfolded in the universe.

- David Bohm

It's amazing how complex we are and how all these cells come together in such a way that life is created. Life is more than just a body though, we are also the spark that ignites the light within our bodies which allows us to see and experience the world around us.

If you take that picture in context with your OP that could mean that just one of your brain cells is as complex as the entire universe. Now that is trippy in my opinion.

S&F

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

This is because of Fractals, the basic shapes of everything is similar because there is a limit of basic shapes.

The simplest Fractal to create is literally a Galaxy looking object. The hardest seems to be objects like Tree Branches and Stems. Things become more complicated the smaller they are when Fractal Geometry is taken into account.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What if we are just a speck in a brain and in our brains are multiverses

Laura Mersini-Houghton, theoretical physicist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and Richard Holman, professor at Carnegie Mellon University, predicted that anomalies in radiation existed and were caused by the pull from other universes in 2005.

Now that she has studied the Planck data, Dr Mersini-Houghton believes her hypothesis has been proven.

Her findings imply there could be an infinite number of universes outside of our own.

She said: ‘These anomalies were caused by other universes pulling on our universe as it formed during the Big Bang.

‘They are the first hard evidence for the existence of other universes that we have seen.'

www.math.columbia.edu...