The Last Supper as Marzeah.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

a reply to: Seede I am not the confused one here. Look at yourself! The seder is supposedly older than Passover. Moses is supposed to have simply substituted Abraham's goat with a lamb, but the human sacrifice parallell remained though. If you can believe it, it started with Abel killing Cain's pets, resulting in Cain killing Abel-- or even earlier, the whole shambles by the Tree of Knowledge. It all boils down to sacrifice. See how Saulus changed the seder into a human again, and further how the Church replaced Passover with Easter. And Jesus didn't institute the Communion/Eucharist either. Melchizedek did. In the days of Abraham again, or for that matter, even that goes further back to Eden again, and the Tree of Knowledge. Buzz word is substitute sacrifice. How the ancients justified animal slaughter and war by example of these stories and vice versa, and its bloody footprints goes on even further in Christian tradition until this day, where both plant, human and animal sacrifice altogether has ended up being substituted by Tom & Jerry, Itchy & Scratchy.

I believe you know better than that of which you posted. The credentials of learned men mean nothing but opinions such as you have. Friedman is not either Nazarene or Christian and offers his own opinions which are derived from his academia of the same. He teaches the very same spiel as of most all universities who are controlled by the same as which they incubate.

Friedman will teach that the Torah is in doubt. Even as a Jew he will not realize that Torah cannot be torn asunder by opinions. No one has the autographs of Torah. That is the fatal mistake critical thinking makes every time. Until those autographs are produced, beyond a doubt, Torah will remain exactly as is presented in the Aleppo and DSS MSS.. All of the great universities will parrot their garbage to their mush minds such as Friedmen but will be fruitless till the autographs are produced.

I have read some of his theological thinking and it certainly is not in accord with Christian professors. The Hebrew [not Jewish] Passover Seder cannot possibly be older than its origination. That is insanity. That which exists cannot exist before it exists. The same can be said of Torah regardless of how it is presented today in theological universities. Both have no autographs so must be kept in the theological vaults of academia. Once you step outside of that perimeter it then become factual and to this date it is not factual. It remains opinion and nothing more.

There is nothing in the accredited Torah or accredited tradition that even hints of Abel killing Cain’s pets being given as reason for Cain killing Abel. Accredited tradition tells us that the entire episode developed as both Cain had a twin sister and Able had a twin sister. Adam wanted the children to mate with their opposite twins and Cain became wroth with that idea. Cain demanded his own twin as a mate against the will of his father Adam. Adam took the matter to God who in turn decided the matter by an offering. [Not a sacrifice but an offering.] The offering which was accepted would then be the accepted wish of the one who made the offering. The outcome was that Able would then mate with Cain’s twin sister and Cain would mate with Abel’s twin sister. This led to the anger of Cain and the anger led to murder of Able.

Some of this is covered in Torah but not the complete tradition is covered in Torah. Till the murder of Able there was not blood spilled upon the earth. Where then is accredited tradition originated? Accredited tradition is gathered from outside literature which is accepted by the various Hebrew cultures. Moses had many scribes who in turn gathered tradition from most all of the Hebrew tribes and the gathered scribal traditions were sorted and put into Torah. This was never to be suggested that Moses penned all of Torah. Much of Torah was given directly to Moses by The Most High EL but most of Torah was gathered by the many scribes at various intervals and compiled in his last years of life. [1272-1273 bce] There are no known autographs nor known names of scribes that exist of Torah.

Tradition and theology are the only existing tools that a truthful professor can offer. All the rest is smoke and mirrors and I believe you very well know it to be a fact. Quoting others with their own opinions means nothing to me unless it is privy to the presented accepted literature of the author. Torah, as it stands, represents the autographs and until those genuine autographs can be presented then all you have is a bunch of universities teaching their own opinions of the same.

In lite of this, you continue to disbelieve whatever sooths your mind and I will continue to use the accredited MSS of the majority of hundreds of scholars who, in my opinion, far surpass Friedman and his fellow associates. You might want to start with the Babylonian Talmud and authors such as Lewis Ginzberg in verification of accepted Hebrew tradition. Another good source of accepted and accredited tradition is oral Torah [Torah Anthology - Me Am Loez -] can be purchased on internet -- also The Jewish Time Line Encyclopedia by Mattis Kantor. I do not use your sources nor do I respect their universities.

a reply to: Seede

You haven't understood anything much. I don't believe in anything stupid. I assume and suggest. Believing is something fools do in certain weird houses with a bronze bell 100 feet hanged up in one end.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Very interesting !!

This link has some interesting connections related to this post. Cronos, betylus, Saturn.


www.askelm.com...

This guy has a lot of interesting knowledge, not agreeing with the conclusions. Just look at the connections.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

a reply to: Seede You haven't understood anything much. I don't believe in anything stupid. I assume and suggest. Believing is something fools do in certain weird houses with a bronze bell 100 feet hanged up in one end.

I have no affiliation with any religion or house of any sort of religion. In that respect the bell thing is your problem and not mine. Believing that the NT Jesus is the Christ is not necessarily a practice of any of the many liturgies of the many denominations. Your hatred consumes your very soul.

a reply to: Seede

Turned your jacket, I see. Wise move young padawan