Angels....hmmmmmmmmm

Angels do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that "a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:37-39). The how was one wrestled with!? More importantly are they not supposed to be sexless? Matthew 22:30 is probably indicating that angels are “sexless”. If angels do not procreate, why would they need a gender? In a similar manner, God always refers to Himself in masculine language. God is neither male or female, however. He just uses masculine language because it more adequately describes who He is and what He does. If angels do have a gender, Scripture would indicate that they are predominately or universally male. SO if they are sexless....just who were the sons of god? Why would they be referred to as that instead of referred to as "angels" or "fallen angels" like they are in other areas of the bible. I believe that they were not angels, but something else entirely.

Angels are comletely spirits, altough they can have the appearance of a man. But they cannot
give in marriage, and hes saying that in heaven where our souls go we cannot give in marriage or be married because
we will be like the angels are.







[edit on 4-2-2005 by Truth]

Yes...I know all this.....but there is a part in the bible where someone wrestles with an angel...there is contradiction there. They are spiritual matter,“they are ministering spirits” and a spirit does not have a sexual identity because he is a spirit, not a physical being.

who ar ethe "sons' of god if not angels? I do not believe they were angels...I don't who they were but I do not think they were angels.....other beings are woven all throughout the bible....perhaps another type of being created by the god? I do belive that the creating god helped along with others...and had help from others. I see the bible and god different than many of you do....

"And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words." Moses 1:37-38

I believe angels are male due to the accounts of them fathering the "Nephilim giants". "There were giants (Nephilim) in the Earth in those days, and also afterwards when the sons of God went in to the daughters of men and children were born by them. They were heroes of old, men of renown" (Genesis 6:4).

I think they can also come down in human form:
With regard to angels appearing in human form and doing physical things, such as eating and drinking, Paul says: "Some people have entertained angels without knowing it" (Hebrews 13:1) -- probably referring to the angels who visited Abraham on their way to Sodom, as we shall see in a moment.

I got these qoutes off of this site as I am not good at rattling off bible verses:
www.creationfoundation.co.uk...

It does go into pretty good detail about angels and the ones that fathered these nephilim giants were then punished and are "fallen angels".

Strangely, as I was reading and typing this, one of my kid's balloons just pulled down like someone had the string and then was let go to bounce off the ceiling. Dooo do dooo do!

OHHHH is this a pet peeve of mine. Its not the messege, its the language you read it in.

The english language doesn't have a word for God that isn't gender specific. You have god (male) or Goddess (female) but nothing that would simply decribe a creator that is both or neither.

Oh sure, you can say "the creator of all things" or "The one that is" or any number of other platitudes, but the results are not the same.

As a writer on human spirituality this seriously gives me the red a$$.

Sexuality is assigned to the angels, the gods and everything else not because it was originally meant that way, but because the english language makes it so.

I often feel that my spiritual growth is being stymied because of the limited language that I speak.

Love and light,

Wupy

Originally posted by LadyV
Yes...I know all this.....but there is a part in the bible where someone wrestles with an angel...there is contradiction there. They are spiritual matter,“they are ministering spirits” and a spirit does not have a sexual identity because he is a spirit, not a physical being.

who ar ethe "sons' of god if not angels? I do not believe they were angels...I don't who they were but I do not think they were angels.....other beings are woven all throughout the bible....perhaps another type of being created by the god? I do belive that the creating god helped along with others...and had help from others. I see the bible and god different than many of you do....

"And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words." Moses 1:37-38

What you speak of is Jacobs Ladder. Jacob and Esau were brothers and Jacob stole Esaus birthright so Jacob ranaway because Esau was goona kill him. So he had a dream were he wrestled with Angels. The dream symbolized God was happy with what he did.

And usually Angels show up like fire. Like Moses and the Burning Bush. later Angels would get Hollywoodized as pimped up porn stars but they really arent

Trying to understand the Universe by quoting the Bible is like trying to understand the world by quoting supermarket tabloids.

Hey LadyV, has anyone shown you how to make light with quartz crystals (ulunsuti)? Check this out.

Maybe God and Angels are genderless. Doesn't really matter to me. I assume they are male as Adam was made in God's image and Eve was made second, to be his partner.

Again that doesn't mean women are *lesser* just not male. Which is cool with me. I kinda think they are an improvement on the first try Kinda like that first try at a new car. The next year always is an improvement on it

Chakotay..Hi!!!!! Yes I have seen that! Thank you..... and you are so right.."understand the Universe by quoting the Bible is like trying to understand the world by quoting supermarket tabloids"

::::end of thread jack::::::

You will have a u2u in a moment....

Lady V, I too have battled with this question.I think it was Jaccob wrestling with the angel. It was never described as an angel if I remember correctly. I think that even mystifies me even more! The crazy thing is that angels are so mystic in the bible, to the point of being undescribed.

The sons of God really spook me out! What are their purpose? I would love to see the responses from some of the heavy hitters.
good topic

I would say that there could certainly be female angels, but all the ones mentioned in the Bible seem to be male, and are referred to by male pronouns and names.

And while angels do not marry--in heaven anyway--a couple others mentioned the fallen angels who consorted with human women and produced the giant Nephilim. The Book of I Enoch is mostly about this event and the Book of Genesis briefly touches on it.

As to spirits and bodies, that's a very difficult one. Some say that angels are formless spirits who can take on whatever body they choose, which may be. Check out the works of St. Thomas Aquinas on the subject, in which all of the medieval knowledge of angels was scientifically categorized, from their creation to how many of them would fit on the head of a pin.

Originally posted by LadyV

Angels do not have physical bodies like humans. Jesus declared that "a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:37-39). The how was one wrestled with!? More importantly are they not supposed to be sexless?

These are referring to two different things LadyV. Angels are not spirit. Angels are beings - who may very well possess their own spirit, but are NOT spirit alone.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Valhall]

Ladyv - Angels are hermaphrodites and are their own type of creation, and unlike humans they have no soul. Angels do have the ability to take on a solid form as they are not bound by the rules of this earth. I would think it would be like oobe in reverse. There are different types of angels with different natural apperances, as there are other beings that God created. The idea of a trinity like the father, son and holy spirit; is connected to the human, the soul, and the spirit. Seperate, but the same. This is what is referred to as in Gods image. Of course any of these subjects are up for debate. I don't think we will have a true understanding until we move on past the physical realm. Most of the bible and the teachings of Jesus are multi layered and contain ideas that don't make sense to our limited thinking.

One reason why God is refered to as "father" is becasue of the Male being the leader of a household, king or authority.

as far as "sons of god" as it appears in Job i think it more of reflects they are a part of God, as in spiritual beings. IN the whole bible, Angels appear as messengers, or servents of God. Jacob at first could appear to have wrestled with an Angel, but in fact it was a God who took the form of a man... and some might say cheated in the wrestling match. Eitehr way the match was highly symbolic of what Jacob/Israel had gone through to get a wife

ALso to note, there are only two angels that ever are given names, Gabriel (Luke 1:19) and Michael (Jude 1:9; revelations 12:7)

Originally posted by popeye0314
Ladyv - Angels are hermaphrodites

Where does that come from? I don't remember ever reading anything to point to that.

I believe it was intentional for the situation. I'm sure Sodom's rep had gotten around to even the south-side of heaven (Genesis 19). The violent rape crimes were all kinds of goin' down. Dudes go to Lot's hiz-ouse, "Hey Lot! We hear you got some boys in there, bring 'em out!" Lot goes, "No way man, they're angels, can't you have my two daughters or somethin'?" Dudes sez, "We don't want yer girls, outta the way chump!" and busted down the door. Angels jump up "Yo! *blasted them blind* Get yer shiznit out 'cuz you done ticked off God and this whole city is gonna get smacked up!"

If you're discussing the nature of angels, you'd be hard-pressed to say they are completely human in form. They do weird, wild stuff so I think they're able to take human form, but maybe not their nature. Check out Zeke (Ezekiel) and Dan (Daniel) for some 'true-form' descriptions. Therefore, I see no reason why there would not be lady-type angels as well if that's the form needed. Granted, if there were, they didn't violate the separation of angels and mankind like in Genesis 6.

God. It was a fun day when the Mormons tried to convince me God was male. There is no purpose to putting God into a container and even seems to contradict his abilities. Correct me be I wrong, but does not the word 'He' as translated from Hebrew originally genderless? I think the Hebrews were a bit more careful with wording and the letter of the Law than Latin & decended languages. Why would God require a gender?

Good topic Lady V. I do have a question for you though. Do you feel it is important for God to have a gender?

Now I may be mistaken, but I remember a teacher of mine reading a passage (not sure from what) to my class, that mentioned a Male and a Female god. It said that they created everyting that is. Which could be why there are males and females, one created in the image of each. It could also account for God's mood swings in the Old and New Testaments, the aggresser being the male and the gentler one being female.

Originally posted by Chakotay
Trying to understand the Universe by quoting the Bible is like trying to understand the world by quoting supermarket tabloids.

You get my 'Way Above Award' for this month Chakotay.

My initial plans were to post something some efficient and clever that the whole world would awe in it's potent literacy. Looks like someone beat me to it.

The word farther came about because it was the way jews refered to god.

Sons of god may of meant like a farthers love which there may be nothing stronger.

On the angel parts to many possibilities for me

They were renamed angels by the one god worshippers, but they were not angels. The problem is that the connection in the story is not being made to its source, so it seems like it stands away from all other myths. But Genesis right up to Canaan being expelled is a retelling of the Egyptian creation myths. The angels responsible for the mating with humans are the demi-Gods of Egypt, Osiris, and Seth. The men of old and of renown are the demi-gods themselves, the 5 being Atum, Osiris, Isis, Nephthys and Seth.

Hard to swallow for many, but when researched becomes undeniably one and the same.