What the Hell...Let's Chat Abortion!

Long story short...I just finished discussing abortion on another site and wanted to make a statement. Before I begin...I AM PRO-CHOICE. I'm not against abortion and there are reasons for abortion beyond and outside of this statement. Rape, very sick fetus, etc. But I would love to hear the comments of others here on ATS.

Abortion is a last-ditch correction to a stupid mistake. Abortion is the ARD to drunk driving...the probation for robbing a store...the sitting in front of the toilet for the getting drunk...the missing finger when you didn't listen to the shop teacher. It is a frickin' mulligan!!!

Abortion is nothing to be proud of, nothing to support, approve of or profit from. It involves the death, or the cutting off of life of another human being. It is disgusting, gross, horrible and sad. It should be looked at for what it is...a bad choice to a worse problem. But during this conversation on another site (probably lower IQs that here on ATS) they basically treated abortion as a band-aid, or taking a cold pill. "Oh...just get an abortion". They gave no value or concern to what it actually involves...death. The whole attitude was like it meant nothing. That there wasn't even a lesson to learn. That bothered me. Abortion is not something to be casually accepted as a simple escape to responsibility.

I have two family members that have had abortions. It was the right choice to a mistake that THEY MADE! Stupidity...laziness...ignorance. And I supported it and, of course, never said these harsh words to them. They made a mistake and today, they do understand that they took a horrible action to fix a problem they caused...a mistake they made.

So what say you?

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

There's a few lines of discussion I won't even get into. Honestly my biggest problem would be my tax dollars going to abortions.

If you choose to get one you should have to pay for it yourself.

It would be great reflection on ATS if this can be discussed without the thread degenerating and being taken down.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Rape, very sick fetus...

For these very reasons and the mothers health it is everything to support.

In other cases not so much.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I will make a pledge to you right now and swear that I will never get an abortion.

My girlfriend was raped and yeah, don't need to explain everything to get the picture.

It tickles my belly a certain way when complete strangers shoot off their voicebox about how she should've just carried the baby and gave birth because, yannow, it's her fault that she was raped against her will. And she should be forced to carry and mother a child she did not want, yannow, because she was raped, because abortion is wrong, a mistake, blah blah blah.

It makes me full of happiness and neatness when complete strangers shoot off their voicebox about how I should be a father of a child that was invented through non-consenetual rape (it happened before I met her, FYI).

It makes me full of joy when people belittle my girlfriend for trying to "escape responsibility," of having a child because she was raped.

For how often people whine and complain about abortion, I don't see the adequate and equal response regarding sick #s who rape women and get them pregnant. I also don't see people whining and complaining about starving children in America, either.

OP - you say abortion is a bad choice to a worse problem?

Like I said - it tickles my belly when people look at my girlfriend as the culprit and the "bad guy," here for not giving birth and mothering a child to a rapist.

Up is down and down is up. We live in such a backwards world.

It's cool if you rape a girl and get her pregnant, but that girl better not contemplate abortion because it's wrong and reasons.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE


Its between a woman and her conscience ..... and nobody else's business.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Rape, very sick fetus...

For these very reasons and the mothers health it is everything to support.

In other cases not so much.

Absolutely! Mother's life, child destine to pain, etc...I'll even go so far as poverty, etc. But I support a woman's right to choose...and I have...personally. But in the aftermath, in the days that follow...it should be a time of revelation.

I'll even take it a step further. I feel that deciding to have an abortion due to a "mistake" should be followed by tears, depression, sadness and maybe even a little, short-term self hate. It shouldn't be an oops...guess I need an abortion. It should be a life changing (or considering) event that the person never, ever wants to repeat. It should be shunned, avoided and maybe even slightly shamed. It should be something to avoid. Not just a shrug of the shoulders.

And I agree with the earlier post...THIS SHOULD BE A TOPIC THAT CAN BE DISCUSSED WITHOUT HATE OR ANGER. At least on ATS. I won't fight my point...I only want to "test the waters" and see if I'm the minority...or not.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Rape, very sick fetus...

For these very reasons and the mothers health it is everything to support.

In other cases not so much.

Women should not be forced to carry around a child for nearly a year, give birth to said child, and then mother that child for the rest of their lives because she was raped and got pregnant.

I really, really, really, truly, honestly, really, REALLY do not know why this is such a difficult concept to comprehend/understand.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
I say many years ago, two times, a girlfriend (different ones, different times) had an abortion and we didn't make that big of a deal out of it. Just didn't think we were ready to be parents.

Now, almost 30 years later and having three children, I am against it, in almost all circumstances, with only one exception: a foetus that is so damaged, there is no possible way of any happiness at all in its life. In the case of rape, there is the option of adoption.

soulwaxer

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE


Its between a woman and her conscience ..... and nobody else's business.

No one...including me is saying otherwise. I'm referring the the casual attitude toward it. The people who don't think it means anything or isn't important. There are those who see abortion as just another way of avoiding responsibility or facing their mistake.

That is what I'm getting at. But...it is ALWAYS the woman's choice, no one else's business.

The vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest, the mother's health, or even the baby's. Abortion is a form of birth control in I'd bet 95% of the cases which is why I have a problem with it. Abortion is a cure all for people who are irresponsible and wind up getting pregnant.

I don't think abortion should be illegal, but let's call a spade a spade and stop acting like the unique scenarios are why most women have abortions.

Not to throw the thread off, but I also believe that since abortion is legal and the woman has all the say in it, that men should not be required to pay child support. Since the entire decision to have a child or not have the child is the woman's, men should not be forced in to child support. Maybe this little change would help woman particularly be more thoughtful about who they choose to let bust a nut in them.

originally posted by: soulwaxer
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
I say many years ago, two times, a girlfriend (different ones, different times) had an abortion and we didn't make that big of a deal out of it. Just didn't think we were ready to be parents.

Now, almost 30 years later and having three children, I am against it, in almost all circumstances, with only one exception: a foetus that is so damaged, there is no possible way of any happiness at all in its life. In the case of rape, there is the option of adoption.

soulwaxer

While I would never say "I'm for it", I would equate it to probation for a crime instead of prison. But probation is a time to reflect and say "crap...I really screwed up" and not want to do so again.

originally posted by: Edumakated
The vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest, the mother's health, or even the baby's. Abortion is a form of birth control in I'd bet 95% of the cases which is why I have a problem with it. Abortion is a cure all for people who are irresponsible and wind up getting pregnant.

I don't think abortion should be illegal, but let's call a spade a spade and stop acting like the unique scenarios are why most women have abortions.

Not to throw the thread off, but I also believe that since abortion is legal and the woman has all the say in it, that men should not be required to pay child support. Since the entire decision to have a child or not have the child is the woman's, men should not be forced in to child support. Maybe this little change would help woman particularly be more thoughtful about who they choose to let bust a nut in them.

A very vallid point.

soulwaxer

originally posted by: Edumakated
The vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest, the mother's health, or even the baby's. Abortion is a form of birth control in I'd bet 95% of the cases which is why I have a problem with it. Abortion is a cure all for people who are irresponsible and wind up getting pregnant.

I don't think abortion should be illegal, but let's call a spade a spade and stop acting like the unique scenarios are why most women have abortions.

Not to throw the thread off, but I also believe that since abortion is legal and the woman has all the say in it, that men should not be required to pay child support. Since the entire decision to have a child or not have the child is the woman's, men should not be forced in to child support. Maybe this little change would help woman particularly be more thoughtful about who they choose to let bust a nut in them.

I would agree with you in theory...the male should have some say in some situations. But I can't deny it is the woman's child no matter what, and only the male's if he is still around or responsible. The woman is trapped and therefore, it does have to be her responsibility and choice.

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

There's a few lines of discussion I won't even get into. Honestly my biggest problem would be my tax dollars going to abortions.

If you choose to get one you should have to pay for it yourself.

Not to go off topic...but I thought about what you said. I do agree with tax dollars paying for NEEDED abortions. For example...rape, damaged fetus, sick fetus, the mother's life being at risk, etc. I don't believe that "birth control" abortions should be funded by tax dollars. Although...I do agree and know that in the long run, they probably save us money and the existence of more criminals and "users".

Very tough discussion and NOT for this thread.

As a constitutional conservative, the issue of abortion from a policy standpoint is easy for me.

First, this disclaimer: I am not a woman, so I don't feel that it's any of my goddamn business what a woman decides to do with her own body, but that being said...

The clear intent of the Framers was to impart as much personal freedom to the individual as possible. Further, the rights granted by the Constitution do not extend to the unborn. There exists no legislation or case law to justify the claim by some that abortion is "murder".

A child, once born, is automatically bestowed the inalienable rights all natural born and naturalized American citizens enjoy.

The only gray area to me is partial birth abortion. Thankfully, that practice is very rare and almost always involves saving the life of the mother.

I understand and respect those who believe that life begins at birth. I know that to be scientifically inaccurate, but I agree with them that Federal taxpayer funds should never be used for that purpose.

Per the 10th Amendment, if the people of a state decide they want to use state-collected funds to pay for abortion procedures, they are perfectly within their rights to do so.

Philosophically, I wish the practice of abortion didn't exist. I wish there were no need for it. But it does exist, and it's not up to me or anyone else per the Constitution to tell a woman she can't have an abortion.

originally posted by: Edumakated

Not to throw the thread off, but I also believe that since abortion is legal and the woman has all the say in it, that men should not be required to pay child support.

Child support

Which planet are you on? Even mothers who have been married say its

like getting blood from a stone.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
Rather than elaborate my feelings on the matter, I will point you to a thread I did last year on re-visiting the abortion topic and some legal changes I felt were quite fair and compromising, including giving the father a say in the matter, with exceptions to certain circumstances too. It was actually quite a healthy debate too.
Let us Re-visit Abortion, Here Are Some Proposals page: 1
I made 4 sections, and added a slew of exemptions that covers most if not all eventualities.

Here's a thought: Many couples screen for down-syndrome during pregnancy, and if it is detected, opt for abortion. What they may not realise is the message they give to people with down-syndrome who weren't aborted: "You are not worthy of life."...

soulwaxer