Mosques in UK refuse to bury Manchester bomber

a reply to: Xcathdra

Quote me instead of whining like a child.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: grainofsand

I wasn't specific and I don't think I really needed to be, you're nitpicking. I was talking about religious beliefs.

So, Kali, apropros of nothing whatsoever, do you support those who feel the need to cut off heads and throw people from rooftops due to their personal beliefs?

No, I do not.

I don't think those actions fall under the purview of religious beliefs, even if the person shouts things about God as they do them.

a reply to: Kali74

The person shouting Allahu Akbar holds it as a religious belief.
A personal religious belief.
Do you condemn that belief?
I do.

a reply to: Kali74

Interesting. And would you say that you in fact condemn the belief that cutting off somebody's head would bring a person closer to god, paying particular attention to those who act upon said belief?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Kali74

Interesting. And would you say that you in fact condemn the belief that cutting off somebody's head would bring a person closer to god, paying particular attention to those who act upon said belief?

I've been asking similar for ages, don't expect an answer any time soon.


*Edit*
I've been asking since Kali originally posted this:

I don't think anyone should be treated badly, shamed or disallowed for their beliefs... any belief.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I like most sane people, condemn murder of all kinds. I'm pretty sure that if there is a God, heaven, hell etc... cutting people's heads off would piss God off and you wouldn't go to heaven.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Shamrock6

I like most sane people, condemn murder of all kinds. I'm pretty sure that if there is a God, heaven, hell etc... cutting people's heads off would piss God off and you wouldn't go to heaven.

Do you not condemn beliefs which include killing and torturing gay people or non believers?
Simple question.

*Edit*
Remember you originally posted this:

I don't think anyone should be treated badly, shamed or disallowed for their beliefs... any belief.

a reply to: grainofsand

You're a stubborn little fella, I'll give you that.

a reply to: kaylaluv

That is irrelevant to the question that Kali is refusing to answer after she originally said this:

I don't think anyone should be treated badly, shamed or disallowed for their beliefs... any belief.

*Edit*
I'm actually a physically fit 186 cms and 97 kilos, but that is equally irrelevant

a reply to: Kali74

Ah I see. I figured as much, especially after your comment about how you were referring specifically to religious beliefs. Despite being a hyper liberal, I didn't think you supported barbarism in pursuit of one's perverted take on God.

In fact I thought you'd not only NOT support such beliefs but would in fact condemn the belief that throwing a gay man off the roof of a multi-story building would please God, and would do so even more readily when said belief turned to action.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Xcathdra

Quote me instead of whining like a child.

lolol pathetic.

a reply to: grainofsand

Thank you for proving my point and proving your false claims.

a reply to: Xcathdra

So where is your quote from me after your lame accusations of me hating on Islam?
Come on, quote me, don't whine like a child, quote my words and I'll defend them.

a reply to: grainofsand

I did quote you.. So stop "whining like a child" demanding me to quote something you said.

Now, point out where Islam allows the things your bitching about.

Jihad - Often described as Holy war however the actual meaning is simply to struggle and can be used for a lot of different areas.

Suicide - Quran forbids suicide / suicide bombers - verses 21: 107, 34: 28, 17: 105, and 25: 56

Murder - Murder of a person, which all are created by God, is forbidden - Qur’an 6:151. The ten commandments are actually distorted on this topic as its often said "Thou shall not kill". The correct translation is "Thou shall not murder". All religions / their texts make killing in some circumstances acceptable.

Conversion to Islam - The Quran forbids forced conversion of non Muslims to Muslim - The Cow, 2:256. Conversion must be voluntary. Anything less is forbidden.

Warfare - The Quran forbids aggressive warfare. If the enemy desires peace then so shall Muslims. If the enemy attacks Muslims then Muslims may respond but Islam can never be the aggressor - The Cow,” 2:190, 8:61

Killing non combatants / civilians - Forbidden.

The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)

Terrorism (hirabah) - Forbidden by Islamic law / Quran - Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34 -

brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power.

Justice -

The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]

Christians / Jews -

The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims.

Quran 5:69 says (Arberry): “Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”

Just touching on a few points.

The issue revolves around religious leaders issuing their own interpretations of Islam to suit their agenda.

There is just as much stupidity in the Jewish and Christian religions as there are in the Muslim religion.

As an example Westborrow Baptist lunatics.


ISIS / KKK used the respective religions to hide behind in order to -
A - justify their actions
B - Give the appearance that God supports their undertaking.

Do you think ISIS / KKK would be more successful if they stated they want to kill people simply because a leader in that group wants power with no opposition or diverging thoughts other than the one being pushed...

or

Do you think they would be more successful in co-opting a religion and twisting parts of it to justify their actions while ignoring the sections they cant?


[align=center]He who keeps the keys to Heaven rules the world.

edit on 3-6-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-6-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: Shamrock6

In fact I thought you'd not only NOT support such beliefs but would in fact condemn the belief that throwing a gay man off the roof of a multi-story building would please God, and would do so even more readily when said belief turned to action.

She hasn't condemned those personal beliefs though.

a reply to: Shamrock6

In fact I thought you'd not only NOT support such beliefs but would in fact condemn the belief that throwing a gay man off the roof of a multi-story building would please God, and would do so even more readily when said belief turned to action.

That would be a yes. You cracked my super tough code words otherwise known as basic English!

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Shamrock6

You cracked my super tough code words otherwise known as basic English!

He/She is just trolling now.

a reply to: grainofsand

You are taking what she said out of context of the whole conversation.

You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole all for the sake of out-of-context semantics.

*Edit*
I'm actually a physically fit 186 cms and 97 kilos, but that is equally irrelevant

Sure ya are.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I know all of that, no need for any education for me regarding Islamic terms and the differences between Sunni, Shia, or Wahabbi Islam.
We're only enjoying discussion because Kali refuses to condemn the personal beliefs of ISIS killers.
Remember she posted this:

I don't think anyone should be treated badly, shamed or disallowed for their beliefs... any belief.

a reply to: Kali74

Well admittedly that part where you condemned murder, even murder done in the name of God, was pretty confusing at first but I got through it.