Mosques in UK refuse to bury Manchester bomber

a reply to: SaturnFX

Aww boo. Seems pretty logical to me and something common for religious leaders to say that if you use your religion to justify your violence then you are betraying said religion.

a reply to: Kali74

ISIS is Islamic fundamentalism.

It is time to face the facts. The people who join ISIS, no matter how immoral they might be, are Muslims, and ISIS is a thoroughly Islamic organization. ISIS members are not non-Muslims, and certainly are not anti-Islamic, as Western Islam apologists like Hamza Yusuf would have you believe.

1. All ISIS members are Muslims
Not a single member of ISIS holds to a faith other than Sunni Islam. What unites all ISIS members, who hail from many different countries and positions in the socioeconomic ladder, is their shared commitment to a particular militant interpretation of Islam.

2. The idea of a caliphate, a central notion in ISIS’s philosophy, is incontrovertibly an exclusively Islamic notion.
3. The leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, has a PhD in Islamic studies from Saddam University.[3]
4. Al-Azhar University, the scholarly seat of Sunni Islam, has refused to denounce ISIS militants as non-Muslims.[4]
Indeed, as various commentators have pointed out, some of al-Azhar’s books and professors teach violent subjugation of infidels through jihad, and the acquirement of female sex slaves, both staple doctrines of ISIS.

5. ISIS is an offshoot of Al-Qa’ida, a self-proclaimed Islamic organization whose doctrines are very similar to those of ISIS.[5]
6. Tens of millions of Muslims the world over support ISIS, and more than 200 million do not express an explicitly unfavorable view towards ISIS.[6]
7. The symbols and features of ISIS are Islamic: the black flags that they fly (which refer to Muhammad and Allah), the growing of their beards (which comes from the ahadeeth), the “nasheeds” or hymns that they play in their videos, and their citation of Islamic authorities like Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 1328)).
8. The type of punishments that ISIS carries out, from slicing the hands of thieves (Q 5:38), to crucifying people (Q 5:33), to the stoning of adulterers, are all distinctive punishments found in the earliest Islamic source texts.[7]

a reply to: grainofsand

I often forget to x out a tab and just close my browser app on my phone and tablet. That leaves me online on ATS. Thanks for checking up though.

There's several branches of different religions that I find offensive, each of the Abrahamic religions have a few... including Wahabism. That's why I don't practice them.

a reply to: D8Tee

They are terrorists. You are talking about them as if they are rational people. It doesn't matter to me what they call themselves I don't think of them when I hear the word Islam.

a reply to: Kali74

You know what the difference between a radical and a normal Islamist is?

A radical Islamist wants to chop your head off.

A normal Islamist wants the radical Islamist to chop your head off.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: Kali74

You know what the difference between a radical and a normal Islamist is?

A radical Islamist wants to chop your head off.

A normal Islamist wants the radical Islamist to chop your head off.

There's actually not a single Muslim on the planet that would disagree with this statement.

There is no denying the FACT that the absolute number one stated goal of Islam is to convert every single person on Earth to the Islamic faith and kill those who refuse.

That's actually stated a few times openly throughout the Quran.

Some lib who has never, and will never, read the Quran will jump on and say that's not true.

Sorry lib, it's true. It's damn true.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Still bringing up that old crusade thing eh . Christianity grew up for the most part . Can you think of any religions still stuck in the middle ages . You get three guesses .

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: SaturnFX

Muslims are a minority religious group in the west and yes people should be free to be Nazi's as well... as long as you are not hurting anyone. I don't like fundamentalism at all in any religion but that doesn't mean we should start banning it.

Yes, minorities, like scientologists, or wiccans (of which in my teen/20s years I called myself)..and considering I used to "identify" as a wiccan, which we were literally burned at the stake from, I honestly never gave a crap about "oppression". If wiccans were however producing a stream of fanatics igniting nail bombs at a concert or co2 bombs in a nightclub, I wouldn't be worried about what the public perception was, I would be fuming at what my "faith" was back then and how the living fark any sect could produce that

Luckily I grew to my age of reason and dumped religion as a whole.

I dont care what a minority faith group there is, they are not above criticism. Nobody is for their ideas and ideals...not republicans, democrats, christians, muslims, etc. That is the liberalism I know and hold true..challenge ideas, try to make the world a better place by intellectual challenge of any dogma brought forth..especially if a byproduct is a body count.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: SaturnFX

Aww boo. Seems pretty logical to me and something common for religious leaders to say that if you use your religion to justify your violence then you are betraying said religion.

I can point you to a hoard of religious leaders (in islam) cheering on violence

See, unlike christianity, Islam is a democracy. there is NO authority except for Allah. There is no pope of islam. There are scholars, and often (usually) they disagree..to an extreme extent, with one another.
But there is nobody that is more holy than the next...so listening to some radical crazy person saying murder all the jews is just as valid as listening to some imam in san fran saying we need to all get along and not push anything.



Again, the local friendly muslim you meet on the streets in the US is not the same as the born and raised muslim from deep in the middle east. Its primitive mindsets being pushed to a "enlightened" nation that has forgotten what savagry was in the early days.

What to do? hell if I know, but admitting the issue is step 1 for sure.


Japan has it right...if you are unsure what that means, you can ask or investigate.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: worldstarcountry

Still bringing up that old crusade thing eh . Christianity grew up for the most part . Can you think of any religions still stuck in the middle ages . You get three guesses .

Jedi-ism
Anime'ism
hmm...
hmmmmmm

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: worldstarcountry

Still bringing up that old crusade thing eh . Christianity grew up for the most part . Can you think of any religions still stuck in the middle ages . You get three guesses .

Even bringing up the ancient crusades issue, it still isn't relevant. the muslim world was attacking and enslaving the west for 600 years straight before the first counter attack happened. Its like a bully complaining that the ones they bullied finally punched them in the nose

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: Kali74

You know what the difference between a radical and a normal Islamist is?

A radical Islamist wants to chop your head off.

A normal Islamist wants the radical Islamist to chop your head off.

None of which are true Muslims since those actions are against Islamic law and the Quran. All groups have elements that dont represent the cause they push and painting with a broad brush becomes problematic. Muslims have condemned acts of terror however they dont get widespread media coverage when they do. Media would rather only show what gets ratings - death and destruction.

An example in the US would be how the media and certain groups portray law enforcement. Yes law enforcement has people who are evil and shouldnt be allowed to roam free, let alone be in a position of public trust. However as a whole, and on a daily basis, police do their jobs and try to do it as fair and as just as possible.

All its takes is for one cop to do something so howl at the moon stupid that the media / certain groups paint them all with a single brush. Like Muslims cops get tired of having to constantly defend themselves and their profession because of the actions of a few.

Just my 2 cents...

a reply to: Breakthestreak

No it's not f'n true

a reply to: SaturnFX

I was also a practicing Wiccan. Even we have extremists. There's Nordic sects that fully embrace white supremacy.

I don't believe that most of Muslims in the ME are like ISIS in fact I think you have to be soft in the head to not realize the people you so eagerly demonize based on sites run by people like Pam Gellar, are our first line of defense against them.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: grainofsand

There's several branches of different religions that I find offensive, each of the Abrahamic religions have a few... including Wahabism. That's why I don't practice them.

You still haven't answered my original question, you said:

I don't think anyone should be treated badly, shamed or disallowed for their beliefs... any belief.

...and I asked do you think that, exactly what you posted, about followers of ISIS who torture and kill because of their twisted beliefs?
Come on, answer this direct question, do you think ISIS supporters beliefs should not be shamed?

You are a slippery one for sure, but I am like a dog with a bone so answer the question and I'll let it slide or I'll keep asking.
Do you defend the beliefs of ISIS scum or not.

Remember, they don't shout Cookie Monster when they kill and torture, they shout allahu akbar (god is great), it is based on belief. Now do you think that belief should not be shamed as you originally asserted, yes or no?

a reply to: grainofsand

I wasn't specific and I don't think I really needed to be, you're nitpicking. I was talking about religious beliefs. ISIS is not a a religion. They are terrorists. Here in the West I think you would be hard pressed to find people openly supportive of ISIS, but if you did... unless they act on that support, what could be done?

a reply to: Kali74

People who shout Allahu Akbar when they kill people are doing it over religious belief.
Do you support that belief?

a reply to: grainofsand

Again, expecting logic from terrorists. They shout something about God as they blow themselves up in an act they know their Prophet forbade. And you can GFY with your attempt at a gotcha. There's nothing to get.

a reply to: Kali74

Again, do you support their twisted beliefs when they shout god is great as they kill people?
Simple yes or no will do.

I condemn their twisted beliefs.