Let's talk about the newest religion: scientism

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Depends on if the religion is awareness based or faith based.

Religion is, was and always will be :

the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Faith. The belief in something in the absence of evidence. That is what religion is, 100%.

Science is not. Now, people may follow science, or Beyonce, with the same fervour and zealousness that a religion commands, hence you get the phrases like, "Following science religiously". But that doesn't mean the noun 'science' is the same as 'religion' and works without evidence.

When I said in an earlier post I have *faith* in science, its because I know the methodology behind it to prove itself is repeatable and evidenced. I can follow the all the same experiments and procedures to demonstrate the claim it is making. And as I said, I have *faith* that jumping out of a building, 40 stories up, will kill me. I don't need to prove it.

So, no religion is 'awareness based'. All religions are faith based. Science is not faith based, but those who understand science and the scientific methodology can rely on rigorously proven facts as true, because they can be demonstrated over and over again.

No religion can make any such claim.

a reply to: firefromabove

I think you make an important distinction. Lot of people want to associate themselves with "science" without actually engaging in the discipline. Same is true of rational thought and logic.

Science, properly practiced, restricts it's universe of discourse to the natural world and makes no claims one way or the other about realities outside the natural realm. A scientist can make claims about realities outside of the natural world, but when he does so he steps outside of his role as a scientist. He's no longer practicing science.

And while methodological naturalism is essential to properly "doing science", metaphysical naturalism is not. Metaphysical naturalism; the belief that the natural realm is the only realm, is a belief on par, from a logical and scientific standpoint, with supernaturalism, superstition and the like.

One of the things I might suggest to you though, is to draw a sharper line between those properly practicing science and those engaging in what you term here scientism.

I mean, for example, lumping Einstein and Newton together with Dawkins and Nye? Plenty of scientists, properly practicing their craft and in no way guilty of scientism, have a high degree of respect for Einstein and Newton, and understandably so. It muddies things up and diminishes the force of your argument when you group them with the likes of Nye and Dawkins.

Anyway, interesting and important topic, good on you for bringing it up.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I enjoyed your video. Thank you.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: EasternShadow

The fact is that you will die if you do not breath oxigen, an O2 atom. That is science. Religion do not teach you that. Religion teach you God's love and obediency or you will burnt in Hell.

Is there oxygen in hell? How would a fire sustain itself?

Lol. Good question!

Hell fire is unnatural. It is supposed to burn and inflict great pain to non physical spirit, angels and devils. I doubt oxygen works there.

The Bible, as I suspected, never mentioned how hell fire works, only what is hell. I doubt ancient people can understand what is oxygen, even if God does teach His prophets about atomic property. Lol.

a reply to: firefromabove

I honestly want to steralize you. Your genetic lineage needs to cease, along with anyone else who can not grasp reality. You disturb me to no end.

a reply to: Aeshma

I honestly want to steralize you. Your genetic lineage needs to cease, along with anyone else who can not grasp reality.
You disturb me to no end.

Well, you are clearly disturbed.

a reply to: firefromabove

Righto then..

If science is a religion, then it is the only one that can be rewritten when greater knowledge is obtained.

Science is pragmatic.

Religion is dogmatic.

I know which one I prefer.

Also, you don't see a Muslim eating pork, so why are you using anything created by the religion of science?

What a hypocrit.

a reply to: imwilliam

Which is why i recognize the need to prevent you from breeding.

Science may be a religion to some but we all know tom cruise and the likes are in serious mental health crisis.


Science has brought us so far. Religion kept us banging rocks together. I have yet to witness divine miracles or the love of god. I can witness the wonder of science any day any time. Its everywhere. Its measurable, testable, repeatable. God, faith, religion are not. They can not be tested, you need to believe in them to exist. Air is here whether you believe it is or not. Fire is the release of energy in a chemical reaction, it can be explained with out doubt.

You, are daft. I wish i could say i have no words, how ever i obviously have many of pure disgust.

a reply to: Aeshma


Yes, and again, as you said, you're disturbed. I hope you get the help you need before you hurt yourself or someone else.

a reply to: imwilliam

I might hurt you or your likes. Love myself far to much to harm a hair on my head. Aside from the clinically inferior ie religious. I cant ever see myself harming another human bean.

a reply to: Aeshma

I might hurt you or your likes. Love myself for to much to harm a hair on my head. Aside from the clinically inferior ie religious. I cant ever see myself harming another human bean.

Well, despite your threat, I'm not concerned about you harming me, but I am concerned that you might harm someone in your immediate geographical sphere of influence, someone that you view as "clinically inferior"

With any luck, you'll drink enough that you pass out before ringing any bells that can't be un rung.

a reply to: imwilliam

I can drink to that. Have a nice life, i only hope you dont miss it dreaming of jesus.

a reply to: Aeshma

I can drink to that. Have a nice life, i only hope you dont miss it dreaming of jesus.

I'm guessing you can drink to just about anything. But in any case, thank you. You've done a great job of representing the irrational hatred of Christianity that's behind so much of the "new" atheism.

And I've recently learned from one of the many genius atheists here on ATS, that all I need is ONE example, (and that doesn't even have to be undisputed), to legitimately draw universal generalizations about millions of people.

Meaning your performance tonight isn't good news for your side.

You guys are on a roll today.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Many "Scientist" say OOB is impossible.

Oh, get a clue, for gods’ sake.

How the Brain Creates Out-of-Body Experiences

Bloody scientific illiterates trying to tell us what scientists say and don’t say.

WHEN ABLE TO CHOOSE, people choose the religion which delivers what they feel will be the best post-Earth experience, don't they?

a reply to: carewemust


I don't know if people always, or even most often, see it as that specific dichtononomy . People don't always go for the most "comfortable" experience, I think they tend to go for the one that loans the most meaning/significance to their previously chosen path.

a reply to: carewemust

WHEN ABLE TO CHOOSE, people choose the religion which delivers what they feel will be the best post-Earth experience, don't they?

No, they don’t.

I live in a country where all the world’s major religions except Judaism are well represented. My home is in the capital, and I have friends and relations of every religion.

Although we have complete religious freedom in my country, people very rarely change from the faith of their fathers. When they do so, it is always for a palpable advantage in this world. The most common incentive to convert is to marry a partner who is of a different religion. Sometimes, a man whose wife would not grant him a divorce would convert to Islam so as to be able to marry another woman. This was more common in the past than it is today, but only because divorce has become more acceptable in our society.

The second most important reason is financial. American ‘charismatic’ churches, in particular, spend enormous sums of money in the developing world, acquiring converts through bribery. Wahabi Islamists from Saudi Arabia do the same thing, although their zakat is generally confined to Muslim communities and is intended to turn them from more tolerant versions of Islam to the reactionary, xenophobic Wahabi version of the faith.

The Americans have no such reservations, but do their best to turn members of the Buddhist and Hindu communities. However, their chief successes consist in converting ‘mainstream’ Catholics and Protestants to their own degenerate versions of Christianity. Even here, the promise made is not only or even mainly of a happier afterlife, but of miraculous cures and material prosperity in this life.

During our long colonial period, the most powerful inducement for conversion (to Christianity) was partly financial, partly social. Under the Portuguese and Dutch occupations, you had to be baptized before your birth could be registered with the authorities and you could be legally married, inherit property or be buried. Under the fidalgos you had to become a Catholic, under the Hollanders you had to join — heaven help you — the Dutch Reformed Church.

Under the British, we had freedom of conscience, but ambitious people still converted to the Church of England — the ‘government religion’, as they called it — in hope of preferment when it came to official posts, government supply contracts and entry into polite society. This continued well into the twentieth century.

Frankly, I have never in my entire life heard of someone who changed their religion in order to enjoy a better ‘post-Earth experience’.

originally posted by: Aeshma
a reply to: imwilliam

I might hurt you or your likes. Love myself far to much to harm a hair on my head. Aside from the clinically inferior ie religious. I cant ever see myself harming another human bean.

Clinically inferior? Lol

Nope. Theists who acknowledge the existence of their Maker are spiritually superior. That is the purpose of life and that's why we were placed here on earth.

Those who don't acknowledge God are not very different from cattle. Like cattle, they just operate on instinct. Their lives revolve around eating, sleeping and mating. They lack faith, so there's no reason for me to think of them as fully human.

a reply to: Astyanax

Bloody scientific illiterates trying to tell us what scientists say and don’t say.

A heathen "scientific illiterate" if I do question bad explanations and want real explanations instead of distractions.


You kinda prove my point how crappy explanations from people who do not like a phenomena is explained away instead of really seeing how it is implemented.

I agree with the comment on the page.

this has so many holes in it it isn't even funny. i don't understand how this has anything to do with an out of body experience. maybe some sort of wierd disasociated experience, but not an out of body experience. How could they have thought it could?

to all you who think this explains everything about OBEs, you are seriously stupid. if you can't even see the problems with this article then i don't want to hear it. OBEs are actually suprisingly commen. they are not people "Just looking for attention". they have very commen themes. they are something of interst that should be studied. not this, this is just crap. not sure why they even did the experiment.

"Scientist" (Science priests) make excuses and distractions that does solve the problem and quantify a solution that can be replicated. Scientist (real quantifiers of the unknown) see the problem as something that can reveal more hidden and tackle the OOB and Pauli effect problem directly and learn something from it.

The Quantum physics "Scientist" (Science priests) held back real science inquiry since quantum phenomena at warm and wet environment could not exists to the majority of them. And of course they where proven wrong yet again by the real scientist like Sir Roger Penrose who followed the data instead of blinding himself in ignorance.

a reply to: firefromabove

Some of those souls that are without faith in your dogma are going to push thru the veil without any problem while you play the spiritually superior game. Run up that hill.



The reason many souls do not have faith in some religions is because the notice hypocrisy and their souls will not have anything to do with that.

Sooner or later all soul get up that hill. It's only a matter of time.