The 23rd Victim of the Manchester Bombing *CONTROVERSIAL*

originally posted by: 0racle
a reply to: howmuch4another

Its about whether brainwashed nutcases who commit these acts are victims too.

Oh well let me clear that up. No. They aren't. They are perpetrators who of their own free will committed acts of violence.
Your attempt to turn thus guy into a victim is weak sauce and in reality it is just you troll baiting an anti religion thread.
Have fun with that.

originally posted by: 0racle

While reading different articles about the suicide attack in Manchester, I kept seeing "22 victims"
At no point did I ever think this might include the bomber ... I wondered about his last moments, and reflected on what motivates a human being to end their life in such a way.

I understand the point that you are making, but disagree. He was a victim of something, brainwashing and cultist behaviour certainly, but not a victim of the bomb.

He carried that bomb into the crowd of his own accord, knowing what was about to happen.

a reply to: Perfectenemy

So once he decided to become a suicide bomber he lost his humanity... I find it hard to disagree with that.

But im thinking about all the people alive now who have not yet come to that decision, who are in the process of having their minds shaped in that direction. Im saying they are victims.. and the bomber was one of those people..

Im not saying go out after terrorist attacks and defend Muslims. Im saying go out before terrorist attacks and defend Muslims AND non-muslims from this hateful brainwashing.

a reply to: howmuch4another


Have you never heard of the phenomenon of brainwashing religious cults?

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: 0racle
a reply to: UKTruth

Meaning what?

The bomber is one of those 22 or the moment he decided to become a suicide bomber he lost his humanity....

He was not a human, he was a terrorist.
We have no need to understand these animals, we just need to root them out and put them down.

And how would propose we do that?

Stand a terrorist next to what you would call a human and not even you would be able to tell which was which.

Would you then advocate for putting them Both "down" (by which one presumes you mean killing?), terrorist and human alike?

Better safe than sorry, eh?

Ironically, your refusal to acknowledge the intrinsic humanity of even the most heinous terrorist make you no more worthy than said terrorist.

Because, to see a human not as a human but as merely a "target" to be destroyed without remorse is to adopt the mindset of a terrorist; to become a terrorist yourself.

a reply to: Perfectenemy

This is very different. The suicide bombers of this cult are brainwashed into believing a number of things. They believe these to be facts.


1) Non-muslims have signed their death warrant by not being muslims, paying taxes to corrupt governments etc.

2) When they die they will be rewarded in the afterlife

3) Their actions Gods will and his way of punishing sinners.

4) They believe these evil acts are PLEASING to God.



That's not the kind of thing that someone believes when they jump in front of a train.

Just heard on the radio that bomber's Dad brought him to Libya to try to "get his head straight" because Dad/Mom knew of his desire to join an anti-west terrorist group.

Apparently it didn't work.

originally posted by: Bhadhidar

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: 0racle
a reply to: UKTruth

Meaning what?

The bomber is one of those 22 or the moment he decided to become a suicide bomber he lost his humanity....

He was not a human, he was a terrorist.
We have no need to understand these animals, we just need to root them out and put them down.

And how would propose we do that?

Stand a terrorist next to what you would call a human and not even you would be able to tell which was which.

Would you then advocate for putting them Both "down" (by which one presumes you mean killing?), terrorist and human alike?

Better safe than sorry, eh?

Ironically, your refusal to acknowledge the intrinsic humanity of even the most heinous terrorist make you no more worthy than said terrorist.

Because, to see a human not as a human but as merely a "target" to be destroyed without remorse is to adopt the mindset of a terrorist; to become a terrorist yourself.

It is humane to kill a terrorist.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

Because, to see a human not as a human but as merely a "target" to be destroyed without remorse is to adopt the mindset of a terrorist; to become a terrorist yourself.

Well there is a lot the argument that says these people have lost their humanity once they have decided to become terrorists. I know I would not think twice about ending a terrorists life about to commit an act of terror, not even for a split second. For some professionals that it is their job to think like that... and for the sake of innocent lives you can't think any other way...

But it's the period of time leading up to them committing violence that we should be thinking about their humanity.

I believe all wanna-be terrorists should practice being human bombs before they blow-up any infidels. They should strap on as much explosive they can carry, march out into the desert or a large field and detonate themselves before trying it on real people. I want them to get it right so there will be no question about the 72 virgin women and 28 virgin boys.

There is also the evil USA policy of 'perpetual warfare' to motivate such acts. What Hillary Clinton and others done to Libya makes this act pail in significance. With our media on the rebels side during this conflict we failed to see much of the carnage and destruction that was done. Our western powers took one of the most prosperous nations in Africa and descended it back into the dark ages. All we really heard about it in reference to Libya's head of state was 'we came, we saw, he died, ha ha'.

With such political guidance in our foreign policy, there is an expectation for more of these acts. Sure there is a need for more security all around the world, but when the truth is the first casualty of war all we are going to find is more dead bodies and no real answers.

Can you call someone a victim of their own plan? Using your morals, yes. But not his.

Think about that.

He is exalted for his act, in his mind.

He was misguided and fell into the trap of bad teachings, but I have trouble calling anybody who takes the lives of himself and 22 others a victim.

Tragic? Yes. Victim? No. He had a choice and he made it.

a reply to: kwakakev

There is also the evil USA policy of 'perpetual warfare' to motivate such acts.

Agreed. But that is just one part of the brainwashing. What was Indias policy of perpetual war that led to the Muslim invasion and genocide? (just one example from across the world)

Infact there are things from this religion that aer themselves explicitly calling for perpetual warfare against people who don't convert to their religion. Indeed they even classify non-muslim lands as the "house of war" and muslim lands as the "house of peace".

So there is clearly more to it that that. But indeed, evidence of western countries crimes against humanity is part of the brainwashing.

originally posted by: 0racle
a reply to: Perfectenemy

So once he decided to become a suicide bomber he lost his humanity... I find it hard to disagree with that.

But im thinking about all the people alive now who have not yet come to that decision, who are in the process of having their minds shaped in that direction. Im saying they are victims.. and the bomber was one of those people..

Im not saying go out after terrorist attacks and defend Muslims. Im saying go out before terrorist attacks and defend Muslims AND non-muslims from this hateful brainwashing.

I have to disagree here. He never had any humanity in the first place. I'm a functioning sociopath and though i'm capable of some f#cked up sh!t(if i'm forced to) i would never hurt innocent people just because a book told me and my god likes that kinda thing. I tried to empathize myself with a brainwashed religious cult member but my mind always tells me how stupid all of it is and i snap out of it. I just don't see how a sane person would rejoice if someone told you that blowing innocent people up is a righteous cause.

I have a hard time believing that Daesh uses some kind of different version of the Quran because if there are no passages of killing infidels in it then why are people still willing to kill people? I know the apologists will show up and lie their asses off and tell me but Daesh has nothing to do with Islam. Yeah nice try. Daesh is following the Quran to the letter including killing gay people. I will never understand why people would follow such a backwards religion with their free will in the first place. It just makes no f#cking sense. I want to know the secret why billions of people feel compelled to follow any religion. Are they all brainwashed without even realizing it?

a reply to: Perfectenemy

This .

I don't care anymore how these ignoramuses came to their state of mind. They either reached out to the evil or they allowed themselves to be taken over by the evil.

Either way, they are weak-minded fools. As President Trump said, "they are losers". Sick, weak, dumb, ignorant losers that aren't worth a thing.

Just like the fools that followed Jim Jones down to Guyana and drank the kool-aid, they are ignorant people that allow themselves to be lead around with rings in their noses, feeding the ego of some leader or group of leaders that get off to the power they have over these pathetic losers that do their dirty work.

The stupid pathetic losers are told they are doing "God's" work and will be rewarded with 72 virgins. How stupid can a person be to belief that sh**! Losers.

a reply to: Perfectenemy

Because you fail to see the complexity and broad scope of the issue.

It's not just books telling them it's okay to kill non-muslims and apostates. It's people. It's family, close friends, community leaders, teachers, scholars, etc. That amount to a lot of pressure on the mind.

a reply to: queenofswords

Either way, they are weak-minded fools. As President Trump said, "they are losers". Sick, weak, dumb, ignorant losers that aren't worth a thing.

You think they were born this way? No, but the brainwashing starts young! Believe me I know. I went to school with Muslims, one of my best friends was a Muslim.

His religion did not motivate him to kill himself and others but the cowards around him that interpret religion and then persuade individuals to act on it...he made the decision himself and no he is not a victim nor should e be considered to be a victim

a reply to: DJMSN

What about those currently being brainwashed to have sympathy for this act, or convinced to go do it themselves?