Oregon Officials Threaten To Seize 2,000 Acre Organic Farm, Spray It With Roundup

a reply to: Bobaganoosh

I've shown that the mismanagement by Azure organic farms has been ongoing for years.

I've shown this is no big ag conspiracy.

Your mindless accusations are noted, but add nothing to this discussion.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Wait...

I thought that Donald Trump won the election in America!? Did he not say that he wanted to make America great again? Did he not concern himself with taking the country back for the people?

Oh, wait.... it was all lies! Oh well, never mind. Meanwhile the government still do not know how to keep their noses out of other peoples business! Who would have thought it!?

I suspect that if one were to look into how the Canadian thistle ended up being an out of control, noxious and invasive "weed", they would find that it was due to some government policy or lack of proper government oversight that started it. It wouldn't be beyond belief that the government actually encouraged the importation and cultivation of Canadian thistle at some point in the past.

If there is an environmental problem in our country, IMO you can bet dollars to doughnuts it involves the government that likely allowed it to happen.

ETA: There are so many non-native, invasive and noxious plants in my area that the natural native plants can now be considered exotic. I've been planting native varieties of grasses and wildflowers for years now. When I clear an area, I try to leave the sedges and other plants behind and some areas are reserved strictly for native plants. I try not to disturb the soil where possible either, that allows the weeds to get a start.

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: rickymouse
I got thistles in my yard, they grow wild out back. They are an excellent medicine. so are dandelions. If the other farmers around there are using roundup, what is the problem? I chop my thistle down before it goes to seed, but always let a few survive, it never hurts to have a little thistle around the house for an emergency, a little yarrow is good too..

I agree with the thistle comments. However, spaying the Roundup there poses to contaminate their crops. With that they will loose their organic certification.

Yeah, but there are natural ways to control Thistle if you want to get rid of it. Remember, glyphosate was derived off of research of natural herbicide chemistry, Monsanto just made it so that the chemistry is concentrated and more toxic to humans. I can't remember off hand what the plant defense system chemical is that would work, most of these chemicals are specific, Roundup is actually capable of killing many different kinds of plants. I used to have a bookmark that went to an organic plant defense chemistry article that listed different kinds of natural products and what they were used for. There were five or six natural herbicides on that page, herbicides that were not harmful to most people. But they could negatively effect crops that you planted too, so you had to know how to use them and it did give a small explanation. I was studying plant chemistry of herbicides and pesticides at the time. That harddrive with the link died.

There are herbicides out there that are natural that would kill the thistle I think, and they are way less harmful to the environment and people.

a reply to: Chadwickus

Sorry to disagree, but if I want to grow thistle on every square inch of my property, why can't I. If roundup is so damn great, then have the people who have problems with my land management use it on their property.

In this case I think I'm on the state's side. I don't know anything about Canadian thistle, but if it's considered a noxious weed, then they have the right to control it. I'm sure they wouldn't let you grow kudzu on your land, or raise rats and let them loose in your neighborhood.

I think an awful lot of people aught to get a grip on this so called organic farming.
Yes, Roundup is dangerous, so when you have a farm that's surrounded by farms that spread Roundup what do you think actually happens when they spray the stuff. The prevailing winds can carry sprays and seeds for miles.
You can see this clearly in the UK with the prevalence of growing Rape for its oil. The farmers plant the Rape but the winds pick up some seeds and surprisingly you find Rape growing in neighboring fields and grass verges alongside roads.
So now tell me how can anyone claim to be completely organic when wind and the actual atmosphere can carry non organic materials and drop it on their land.

a reply to: rickymouse

Vinegar neat and or non bio-hazardous detergant as surfactant, with salt or essential oil added extra is effective on topical and broad leaf weeds. But deep rooting vines ivy, morning glory or ribosomal spreading weeds are a diffrent story.

I have used Glyphosate commercially opon clients request, but loath it, I would avoid using it own my own land. I have witnessed it stripping all life from soil for extended peroids not even a sign of ants, even causing erosion to sandy banks with prolounged application.

National Pestcides Research Centre
Has some intreasting points on soil-half life, mammalian toxicity, even suicide via Glyphosate poisoning.

No point in mentioning how corrupt Bayer/Monsatan is, and all the listed adverse effects stated online!

originally posted by: aliensanonymous
a reply to: rickymouse

Vinegar neat and or non bio-hazardous detergant as surfactant, with salt or essential oil added extra is effective on topical and broad leaf weeds. But deep rooting vines ivy, morning glory or ribosomal spreading weeds are a diffrent story.

I have used Glyphosate commercially opon clients request, but loath it, I would avoid using it own my own land. I have witnessed it stripping all life from soil for extended peroids not even a sign of ants, even causing erosion to sandy banks with prolounged application.

National Pestcides Research Centre
Has some intreasting points on soil-half life, mammalian toxicity, even suicide via Glyphosate poisoning.

No point in mentioning how corrupt Bayer/Monsatan is, and all the listed adverse effects stated online!

I have used roundup a couple of times. It actually rejuvinates when you add fertilizer containing phosphate. I heard that years ago already from someone who owned a farm and had went to a seminar on it. I checked it out and it appears to be true, but that information was hard to find. Exact wording was required.

Many years ago I chose not to use it anymore after seeing what it did to the worms. My father died of brain cancer and I have the genetics for getting that. What was the probable cause of it, DDT. We had a farm and it was perfectly safe back then. Yeah right, I hated the smell of that stuff through the hanky over our faces when spraying it. There were lots of farmers who got brain cancer around the country around that time, that is a major reason they banned it. I read an article by an old guy who actually worked for the government investigating that link about ten years ago, that took place back in the late sixties and early seventies. He said the government was worried about loosing all the farmers.

So the inability to make much of a certain enzyme raises my risk of brain cancer. DDT is not the only pesticide that needs that enzyme to detox, every similar pesticide that replaced that since, seven that were banned, requires that enzyme. So does roundup and some antimicrobials like triclosan. Triclosan is not harmless to me, it is very toxic to me.

My one daughter also has a defunct enzyme, others can take up a little of the slack but not much. The youngest daughter only has one copy, my present wife has none. My wife can detox it but our daughter has a lower ability but not as bad as my first daughter from my first wife and I. That mutation is not rare, twenty to twenty five percent of the population have it.

But that enzyme is needed to process some natural plant defense system chemistry too. So I have to make sure not to eat much of certain veggies.

a reply to: rickymouse

I have used roundup a couple of times. It actually rejuvinates when you add fertilizer containing phosphate. I heard that years ago already from someone who owned a farm and had went to a seminar on it. I checked it out and it appears to be true, but that information was hard to find. Exact wording was required.

No.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: rickymouse

I have used roundup a couple of times. It actually rejuvinates when you add fertilizer containing phosphate. I heard that years ago already from someone who owned a farm and had went to a seminar on it. I checked it out and it appears to be true, but that information was hard to find. Exact wording was required.

No.

Second page of this article. responsibletechnology.org... They no longer recommend glyphosate for potatoes because it kills the plants when phosphate fertilizers are used. They now recommend a different herbicide for potatoes. I grow some potatoes and my dad was a big potato farmer so I found this information about not recommending roundup for potatoes now because of this exact reason, reduced production of the plants.

Last paragraph. www.hunker.com...

So why do you say no? When there are probably twenty research articles on the net out there that say it is reactivated by phosphate fertilizers, most dealing with agriculture practices written for farmers. I read a lot of the Department of Agriculture information. I have friends that are farmers, both organic and non-organic farmers.

Wow, what a biased and completely uneducated video.

Thistles are a real pest. They have very fluffy seeds that spread via the wind. Livestock will reject feed that us contaminated with them because of the prickles.

If the farm has a clue, they would be grubbing the thistles with a hoe at the juvenile stage. But 2,000 acres is a huge area and they most likely cannot keep up. So they have decided to accept them as part of nature.

Noxious weeds are labeled ago because they are invasive and take over arable land completely if not controlled.

And as for morning glory....that stuff is a total nightmare. I've seen entire empty houses literally covered over with it.

- Morning glory weeds in the garden can be viewed as a nemesis due to the rapid spread and ability to take over garden areas. ... Morning glory weed control in the cultivated landscape, however, is essential to prevent the plant from taking over. ... The bindweed plants grow from rhizomes ...

www.google.com.au... -mobile&ie=UTF-8

a reply to: rickymouse

So why do you say no?

We used it for 20 years to burn off weeds in the fall and spring before seeding, thats why.

We had 1920 acres that were rotated between wheat, lentils, barley, oats, canola fall rye and field peas.

btw, we also had a very large garden for home use, and we never used any herbicides for that, we use a hoe.

a reply to: aliensanonymous

I use glyphosate on my garden to control weeds like Kikuyu. Like ANY poison it needs to be used sparingly.

I do agree with you though that the market garden practise of using it in low concentrations via irrigation with gmo 'round up resistant' plants is over the line though.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: aliensanonymous
I do agree with you though that the market garden practise of using it in low concentrations via irrigation with gmo 'round up resistant' plants is over the line though.

What would a market garden grow that is 'roundup ready'?

Current Roundup Ready crops include soy, corn, canola, alfalfa, cotton, and sorghum.

The amount of disinformation out there is frightening.

City people get their way and have glyphosphate banned, it's going to be replaced by something, and that something will almost certainly prove to be a more toxic herbicide. Google Liberty herbicide, it's an alternative.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: rickymouse

So why do you say no?

We used it for 20 years to burn off weeds in the fall and spring before seeding, thats why.

We had 1920 acres that were rotated between wheat, lentils, barley, oats, canola fall rye and field peas.

btw, we also had a very large garden for home use, and we never used any herbicides for that, we use a hoe.

With potatoes, they often add phosphate fertilizer in the field mid summer. That reactivates the roundup for a period of time and negatively effects the potato plant and lowers the amount of potatoes produced. The Department of agriculture does not recommend using roundup for potatoes anymore, there are a couple of other ones they recommend, one which isn't very good for male fertility.

The preharvest treatments of grains happening now required the government to raise the level of glyphosate residue in grains. I know people who farmed grains and a guy who actually worked with a government agency. There were strict regulations on not doing that up until six years ago. Glyphosphate levels in cereals has increased considerably as it has in flours since 2011. The FDA raised the allowable limits in 2013. Research preharvest treatment of grains with glyphosate compounds, you may be interested in the changes that have occurred with this. Both guys I know that I mentioned were very concerned with this, that was their job, they knew too much was not safe. They did not believe me till they looked at the regulations and how widespread this is going on now, even Dakota is pushing this practice, I get Dakota maid flour. I now buy organic dakota maid flour for our all purpose flour and contacted them to find if they had a bread flour in organic but they never got back to me on that. I suppose I am small potatoes, they are busy.

Since they started this, seven years ago, there has been an increase in people who are gluten intollerant. Is it really gluten intollerance or is it a problem with the glyphosate being used on grains for preharvest treatment. I guess since people do not want flour that has been bleached or bromated, they decided to use glyphosate which is also an antimicrobial and it is effected at killing the bad funguses that contaminate grains. I think the bleach and bromating was supperior to the glyphosate funguside action myself. People get all wound up about things, it is importyant to kill funguses that create toxins. All the grains now are recommended to have preharvest treatment to be sold to many of these big graineries. I often wonder what organic funguside they are using on the organic grains and if it is safe or not.

a reply to: rickymouse

With potatoes, they often add phosphate fertilizer in the field mid summer. That reactivates the roundup for a period of time and negatively effects the potato plant and lowers the amount of potatoes produced. The Department of agriculture does not recommend using roundup for potatoes anymore, there are a couple of other ones they recommend, one which isn't very good for male fertility.

Source please, as I see evidence to the contrary from Canadian guv.
Link

The preharvest treatments of grains happening now required the government to raise the level of glyphosate residue in grains.

I'm totally against this practice and think it should be taken off label.

I made a thread a few weeks back.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

All the grains now are recommended to have preharvest treatment to be sold to many of these big graineries.

Nope. Not true.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: rickymouse

The preharvest treatments of grains happening now required the government to raise the level of glyphosate residue in grains.

I'm totally against this practice and think it should be taken off label.

I made a thread a few weeks back.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

All the grains now are recommended to have preharvest treatment to be sold to many of these big graineries.

Nope. Not true.

I did not say all the graineries. In North Dakota, they have a state run program and the commercial graineries there supposedly are required to have this treatment. Some in Minnesota require this too. I just checked those two states because they are big producers. In Minnesota, it is the choice of the individual grainery.

Here is a video, you were a farmer, I grew up with farmers. Now tell me, they are talking about the green under the head, but you as well as I know that the whole field does not ripen at the same time and weather conditions are involved. A bankrupt farmer is not a happy farmer, you also get your combine from the coop at a certain slot just like everyone. You said you had a big farm, maybe you owned your own harvester. I don't think it is actually called a combine.

Watch this video, I do understand this need but do not agree with the glyphosate being used. www.youtube.com... I kind of like videos like this.

a reply to: rickymouse

I did not say all the graineries. In North Dakota, they have a state run program and the commercial graineries there supposedly are required to have this treatment. Some in Minnesota require this too. I just checked those two states because they are big producers.

There is certainly no such mandate for this in Canada. I am hesitant to believe that any grain handling company would require this. It sounds like disinformation if you ask me. Yes we owned our own combine.

In that video he is checking to see if the grain is past the 'soft dough' stage. Notice how he mentions 'translocation into the seed' if it is applied too soon. This is how the roundup is making it's way into our food supply. There is no way you can have a field that is 100 % uniform. You WILL get translocation into the seed in a certain percentage of the crop, just no way around it I would love to see it taken off label for human food crops.

In all reality, Roundup isn't even a desiccant, it's just been put on label to increase sales and drive up corporate profits. Roundup is the lesser of the evils when it comes to herbicide choices. While I'm not saying it's not poisonous, it's not near the danger that some other herbicides represent. Take it off label as a dessicant on crops that are destined for human consumption and the amount of Glyphosphate entering our food chain will drop to near zero.

Here's an article from Grain News about dessicants you may find interesting.

Link

“Glyphosate is a systemic product, which means that once it enters the plant it will get into the circulation system and move through the plant to the same places that the sugars are going, which are called sinks,” says Brenzil. “The sink at the pre-harvest timing is the seed. So basically what you are doing by applying early is taking what is applied to the surface of the leaf and putting it right into the seed.”


To make my views on Roundup clear, it's a needed product, but it has no business being on label for pre harvest application on crops that are destined for human consumption.

a reply to: D8Tee

Agreed.

Glyphosate is a poison, but it's so popular because it's not as bad as others.

But one can avoid using it in some cases if they are switched on.

Case and point, instead of spraying fields or before cultivation, my Dad always turned the field over, left it for a week or so until the weed seeds in the soil started germinating then rotary hoed the entire area to a fine tilth.

This always worked well to give the crop (maize or sorghum) a chance to germinate and grow faster than any weeds. Because the crop is so dense, and weeds that germinated were soon choked out by the maize anyways.